Zis 5 Medic Truck Questions

Hi, all.
1. I would like to know how do you use zis5 medic truck?
2. When do you build it, where do you lock it?
3. How often do you use it (by this i mean in every game or not)?
4. Any tips and tricks for zis5?
5. What do you think how the AI should use it?

Thanks.

Last edited April 11, 2012 at 12:06 PM by jojorabbit

1: Click "Lock Down ZiS Truck" when the truck isn't moving and it will become immobilized. All infantry around it will then heal
2: Lock it down where ever you want. It just has to be friendly, connected territory.
3: Use it if you are going infantry heavy. If you are going for fast armor, get it later. Remember, healthy infantry are happy infantry :D and live longer
4: Lock down a ZiS next to an out post so when infantry retreat to it, they can heal AND reinforce. Its like a Healing Brit truck  :o. Or if you're in a teamgame, lock your ZiS down next to your Brit's Command Truck
5: I personally think the AI should leave their ZiS in their base since they seem to not know how to use it :P.

1. I know that am not that kind of noob :P
2. Also know that it must be in friendly territory :)
3. Nice explanation.
4. Yes locking it near outpost is good idea.
5. Am trying to teach AI how to use it, so that is why i need this info. Currently AI locks it right after it is spawned, in most cases AI builds SSB near HQ so truck is near HQ.

6. When do you think AI should build it?

I think they should build it after like their 7th or 8th infantry squad but thats really a matter of opinion.

To give a less "noob" answer to

jojorabbit wrote:
1. I would like to know how do you use zis5 medic truck?

You can use it like Brits use Command Truck. Instead of retreating all the way back to your HQ, you can retreat back to the nearest Outpost (assuming you Med Truck is next to the nearest Outpost), saving you a lot of time.

6. Hm.. so AI should build it only if he has 7-8 infantry squads, and they have to be wounded i guess :), probably in 99% of cases they will be wounded.

1. British trucks IMO are not very well used by AI, i mean they are trying to lock them on some points that normal player would never lock because of that often AI loses truck. Do you think that AI should lock truck at outpost that is nearest to HQ maybe? Idk am not sure right now what is best for AI to handle zis5.

The Brit AI is kinda stupid in that it sends the truck to the front lines and then it dies a horrible death XD. I think it should lock down to the nearest resources point by its base (resource being fuel or muni)

Hey JoJo,

1.The most useful tactic for using the Zis Good Humor Truck, beyond its obivous uses is to move the ZIS around a good bit. THen use it as a staging area for an offensive in a different part of the map. Squads retreat to base refit and retreat to Zis. new units retreat to zis. etc etc. Of course all this retreating is done at forced march pace, A sort of Sov Halftrack.
2. I place a low priority on Zis deployment same as Cat Fishy does. I consider deploying it when my conscript squads start retreating en mass due to MG supression. But that early in the game my FP budget is tied up with Tech Development tree.
3. The Zis should should be deployed in the full dynamic mode, So you really don't have to worry about that.
4. Next post attach "A picture is worth a thousand words" Screen Shot. I think the gang should see what a stomper can do for EF.  ;)

For the CW Call-in T1,T2 AI; an infiltration type call-in prioritising MP for the Sapper truck and FP for the Tank/truck should be considered for AI. I'll think about the AI's T0 "charge of the Light Brigade" issue. BTW I'm off on the family business we talked about shortly.

Last edited April 11, 2012 at 1:03 PM by Otto Halfhand

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QuoteThe Brit AI is kinda stupid in that it sends the truck to the front lines and then it dies a horrible death XD. I think it should lock down to the nearest resources point by its base (resource being fuel or muni)

Yes i also think same but leave brit trucks locking ability for some other discussion :). (No offence). One by one faction.

Currently am interested in Soviet AI, when should AI build zis5 (you said 7-8 inf squads will see what others think about that).

7. And where to lock it?
7.1. Always near base (so it is practically used like amer triage center)
7.2. Sometimes near Observation post, but then AI should use retreat to medic truck not normal retreat? Am not sure that AI will reinforce near Observation Post.

IMO i would choose 1 for now - always near base. Maybe to change it later idk.

Suggestions, comments :).

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2. Hm so to build medic truck you should have tank hall build first, right?
3. Yes but in dynamic mode there are a lot so calculations (example: spawn it only when i have 7-8 infantry squads).
4. Since we all now that AI does not lock ZIS-5, I made some changes to some files so AI now locks it when it is spawned close to SSB, which are in most cases near HQ. But that can be changed.
So here are some better pictures then one i sent you on PM  :P.



NOTE: On the images fog of war is turned off, am using wehr and swimmwagens + volks, you wonder why swimmgens? Cuz russian snipers :P. In one of images there is Sturmovie on vet lvl2 destroyed 3 vehicles those are swimmwagens (just telling this in case anyone will ask who they are :) )
With same solution i think i might be able to force PE to secure terr with Scout cars :P, but leaving that for later since this is conversation about ZIS ;).

QuoteFor the CW Call-in T1,T2 AI; an infiltration type call-in prioritising MP for the Sapper truck and FP for the Tank/truck should be considered for AI. I'll think about the AI's T0 "charge of the Light Brigade" issue. BTW I'm off on the family business we talked about shortly.

Later when i get to brits :) one by one faction. (No offence)

Thanks.

jojorabbit wrote:
7. And where to lock it?
7.1. Always near base (so it is practically used like amer triage center)

Basically this :P

jojorabbit wrote:
2. Hm so to build medic truck you should have tank hall build first, right?

You don't need TH to make Med Truck IIRC

QuoteQuote from: jojorabbit on Today at 03:27:09 PM
7. And where to lock it?
7.1. Always near base (so it is practically used like amer triage center)

Basically this

7. I also agree with you, for now i will stick it to base, so AI will use ZIS like triage center, also i will try to force AI to park it behind HQ or close to HQ so every unit that AI is reinforcing is healed, later it can be changed.

jojorabbit wrote:
2. Hm so to build medic truck you should have tank hall build first, right?

You don't need TH to make Med Truck IIRC
[/quote]

2. I know you need mustering tent to build ZIS, i mean should AI build medic truck when he has tank hall or before tank hall? Cuz fast vehicles strategy.

Here is basic explanation what i mean step by spet:
2.A) 1 step: If AI does not have 7-8 inf squads don't build ZIS or 8rly low chances that AI will build it).
2.B) 2 step: Raise chances that AI will build ZIS when he has 7-8 inf squads.
2.C) 3 step: Raise it more when AI has tank hall.

2.D) This way AI will build ZIS randomly also it can depend on other stuff. I would like to hear your opinions about those steps?

Im just wondering are you programming the AI ???? It kinda sounds like it :P

Cat wrote:
Im just wondering are you programming the AI ???? It kinda sounds like it :P

Yes :), why?
Reason: I was mad when i lost playing as amer with allied soviet(AI) vs 2 PE. I lost cuz he did not do anything smart :).

Quote4. Since we all now that AI does not lock ZIS-5, I made some changes to some files so AI now locks it when it is spawned close to SSB, which are in most cases near HQ. But that can be changed.

Last edited April 11, 2012 at 9:50 PM by jojorabbit

Yeah Allied AI kinda sucks :(. US AI will almost always lose (I've tested it b4 :P)

Cat wrote:
Yeah Allied AI kinda sucks :(. US AI will almost always lose (I've tested it b4 :P)

I was American - AI was playing with Soviets.
Wehr AI is the smartest one then PE.

jojorabbit wrote:

Cat wrote:
Im just wondering are you programming the AI ???? It kinda sounds like it :P

Yes :), why?
Reason: I was mad when i lost playing as amer with allied soviet(AI) vs 2 PE. I lost cuz he did not do anything smart :).

Hope that anyone does not have anything against improving AI  :-\.

Last edited April 11, 2012 at 10:02 PM by jojorabbit

Lets say that AI uses ZIS5 medic truck similar to Triage Center for now, how far from base should AI lock it?
IMO in radius 5-15 from HQ what are you opinions?
IIRC ZIS heals all infantry that is in circle of radius 25 from it. Correct me if am wrong.

It could be better if it were locked adjacent to the Barracks (RAMT). Or beside the Support barracks directly as it should lessen the amount you have to code.
Jojorabbit, could you stop the AI from using the ZiS AT gun Lockdown?

Hmm... I think we should split the toggleable soviet abilities into "on" & "off" versions, so the AI can use it properly... not that theplayer would notice it :).

Coding is not problem don't worry.

QuoteJojorabbit, could you stop the AI from using the ZiS AT gun Lockdown?

Am not sure what do you mean could you explain it a little more?
To stop do you mean to lock it and never unlock it or what?

For now i plan to lock it near base so when AI reinforces all infantry is healed, later maybe to lock it somewhere else on the map dunno will see.

QuoteI think we should split the toggleable soviet abilities into "on" & "off" versions, so the AI can use it properly

Well the off IMO would be if locked down out of base and health below 50% unlock and run home :P

blackbishop wrote:
Hmm... I think we should split the toggleable soviet abilities into "on" & "off" versions, so the AI can use it properly... not that theplayer would notice it :).

You are correct on both counts.

Ok splited :

ON -> IMO lock it near HQ so infantry is healed when reinforcing (for now near base discuss later locking on battlefield)
OFF -> If locked on battlefield when health below 50-60% then unlock and go home (maybe lock it home again near HQ)

IIRC AI does not use retreat to medic truck ability that also needs to be fixed.
That is one of the reasons why i think Medic Truck should be locked near HQ at least for now later maybe better location.

What do you think?

EDIT:

QuoteJojorabbit, could you stop the AI from using the ZiS AT gun Lockdown?

Sorry, I did not read this properly i thought that you ask for Medic Truck, not for ZIS3 or should i call it ZIS2 upgraded AT gun.
Yes I have stopped this AI locks(hull down or dig down) AT gun when shooting vehicle and when it does not shoot vehicle anymore AI unlocks it(hull up or dig up). :P Also if AT is destroyed while in hull down other AI can take vehicle and dig it up, take home etc :).
Same is applied to british (hull down) on tanks/vehicles ;).

Last edited April 18, 2012 at 6:55 PM by jojorabbit

JoJo +1

BlackBishop: I think it might be advisable for AI's unupgraded ATGs to have the "Hull Down" ability locked anyway. Entirely too many wrecks are created, buggering the comps pathing routines.

THe Description of ATG upgrade implies this anyway.

1. How far from HQ should AI lock ZIS5 if using it like triage?
2. Where on battlefield should ZIS be locked? At Observation Post that is nearest to base maybe?

1. About 20 from T0 sounds about right.
2. AI battlefield zis should be in vicinity of OP. It is more important that it be sufficently behind the front lines that it doesn't have its line of communications cut. In effect the Zis allows the AI or Player 2 different retreat paths, (Pathing).

Perhaps it would be best if the AI caps the highest Muni point it has and parks the ZiS adjacent to it. Would be like most human players

3. Hm, why not to highest fuel point? just curious
4. Should AI park ZIS to point that has OP or not? IMO point should have OP cuz reinforcing.
Will see what others think.

@Tankbuster

QuoteJojorabbit, could you stop the AI from using the ZiS AT gun Lockdown?

Sorry, I did not read this properly i thought that you ask for Medic Truck, not for ZIS3 or should i call it ZIS2 upgraded AT gun.
Yes I have stopped this AI locks(hull down or dig down) AT gun when shooting vehicle and when it does not shoot vehicle anymore AI unlocks it(hull up or dig up) :P.
Also if AT is destroyed while in hull down other AI can take vehicle and dig it up, take home etc. :)
Same is applied to british (hull down) on tanks/vehicles. ;)

Last edited April 19, 2012 at 3:14 PM by jojorabbit

jojorabbit wrote:
3. Hm, why not to highest fuel point? just curious
4. Should AI park ZIS to point that has OP or not? IMO point should have OP cuz reinforcing.
Will see what others think.

3. The principal reason not to Lockdown AI Zis5 at a high fuel point is the high priority players place on FPs or MPs later in the game. Given the disruption occurring when the Zis5 loses its Line of communication to T0 it is probably better to set the demand for Zis5 to low FP , MP or even SPs.
4. Parking zis5 near an outpost is always a plus but I think the Zis5 should be sited where it gives an alternative retreat pathing to the Retreat to base  pathing, (which is subject to player interdiction).

Finally i have figured out why geometry in coh was so weird to me  ;D.

Back to Topic:

Some new images:



distance between truck and HQ = 15.89



distance between truck and HQ = 19.74

Truck is locked close to HQ but at max distance 20. It does not matter where is SSB AI will drive it to closest point near HQ but max distance between truck and HQ must be 20 :P.

LYON:


SNOW :P


Pros: Always locks trucks for all Soviet AI players and leaves them locked
Cons: Locks truck near hq (at least for now :P)

Comments, suggestions?

Last edited April 20, 2012 at 11:52 AM by jojorabbit

Hi all,

Am currently at the point of locking ZIS on the battlefield, am not the expert player so i need to know some stuff.

1. Where should it be locked near points with OP or points without OP? Maybe close to forward HQ if there are any?
2. Where do you usually lock it? - by where i mean near forward HQ, near low muni point, near anything else

Thanks.