v1.6 Strats for Urban Combat Doctrine.

Prefatory Remarks

Note: When I gripe about something I am politely lobbying.

Propaganda Doctrine is Top Dog for the Sovs in v1.6. The CP structure is good, the call-ins excellent. And all that artillery! ::) I think the CP  cost of NI or Partizans will ultimately have to change; but that is another discussion. The OBR is not right yet but that will get fixed sooner or later. The RHS of the doctrine is the "Road Less Taken" anyway.

Breakthrough Doctrine is likewise very sound. People have yet to learn how to use Mechanics. The call-ins are excellent.  The CP structure is good. It is clearly the best balanced Doctrine all round, - What else would you expect from a Doctrine that extols Combined Arms. There is a small problem with the SU152/IS3 call-in: 5 CP is OK for IS3 but too much for the SU152 now that it has a barrage cost. Presuming the barrage is ~equivalent to the precision artillery strike, the muni cost is a bargain. It is a perfect match for the infantry faction philosophy of the Sovs. My only gripe is I would like to see the Population of Guards and Tank Rider Guards lower than 8/Squad.

Urban Combat Doctrine is sound but seldom used. Its greatest strength: it can be used with both active and passive, (Soft), play styles. The Call-ins are fine. The Conscript upgrade is a real sleeper! BTW: I've seen vetted conscripts running around with dropped weapons!  ??? I would like to know how many weapons the Partizans can pick up? Flare is a little buggy and maybe a little expensive muni wise. I don't like the CP Structure. :( LHS is good. "For The Motherland" at 3CP is a good value for what you get. Conscripts are not NI though. The RHS structure is not good. I can make a good case for Partizans @ 3CP but Partizans are not NI. Partizans are a great call-in. Partizans are not NI. Partizans and NI should have the same CP cost.

I advocate an early Fuel Point Outpost for every Soviet Strat. Soviet Teching and unit deployment will work optimally at 35 FP/min gain - Consider this the Skirmish Phase. There is a secondary optimization point when the  gain rate hits 40 FP/min - consider this escalate to battle phase. There are benefits to be accrued at 50FP/min and 60FP/min but this is beyond the Tech Development period. The other Factions operate similarly but optimum Gain rates are different.

Strats for use with Urban Combat Doctrine
It seems pointless to consider Sniper Starts with Urban Combat given infiltration ability and Sniper Ace.
Urban seems well suited to Conscript Starts, and Fast Vehicle Starts. I don't think it is a Good match for Stormovie Starts! ??? Think about it. Here are Otto's starts. Be warned I deal with peculiar handicaps and my build numbers are different than almost all competitive players. My goal for map control is to keep the enemies map control at 30% or less. ;)

Conscript Start: 2Ing/T1/2-3 Cons(ultimately 5-Upgraded Cons)/CS/T2/ShortRangeCS/Ing/3TH/T4/mortar upgrade
Molotovs as early as convenient. 2  - 107mm M as soon as Enemy action permits. 1 Strelky when nebels appear. 2 Partizans infiltrate ASAP

Fast Vehicle Start: 2Ing/T1/CS/2-3 Cons(ultimatley 5 - upgraded Cons)/T4/Lt Tky/2-3 T70s Goal: 10mins. elapsed time. T2 with the goal of Establishing an advanced fire base in an area with built-up defenses. 2 Partizans infiltrate ASAP

Otto's Notes:

1. Forward cappers frequently will only decap in forward areas. Low FP and MPs are prioritized over juicier targets especially in foward and contested areas. FPs are 1st priority.


2. Ing and Sturmovie actively fortify and channelize movement. Coordination of these activities with the Hvy Mortar platoon will be supervised by the NKVD Commissar.

Partizany really gotta go back down to 2 CP. I used them plenty before, now I rarely to never use them as they arrive way too late.

Dot.Shadow wrote:
Partizany really gotta go back down to 2 CP. I used them plenty before, now I rarely to never use them as they arrive way too late.

Far too strong for 2CP. Don´t die because of airborne armor and already are equipped with SMG´s. Sturmtroops get MP44 at tier3 and come from map entry point. US airborne and ranger have to be equipped first.

Last edited April 9, 2012 at 11:50 PM by Killar

i would agree. partisans are darn strong, even though they have been nerfed  :'( as for this doc, it may need something more, but unless im mistaken, you didnt really ask for any changes, but instead strategies.

my strategies for this doctrine would pretty much be, mines everywhere, not many AT guns due to shot blocking objects, mortars to own in an urban environment, PPSH rather than deregyatov (spelled wrong) for strelky upgrade, and molotovs for conscripts. again, TH rather than AT gun, possibly MG bunker. not as many tanks, but mostly anti-infantry ones. oh, and flamers. many flamers.

(enjoy the run on sentence)

stealthattack1 wrote:
... my strategies for this doctrine... PPSH rather than deregyatov (spelled wrong) for strelky upgrade, and molotovs for conscripts... oh, and flamers. many flamers.

(enjoy the run on sentence)

Don't forget to upgrade the conscripts to full rifles- a real bargain at 17muni a piece. "For the Motherland" is +3.

very true. so thats what i find most effective in urban maps.

The full rifles upgrade is 17 muni ???

stealthattack1 wrote:
my strategies for this doctrine would pretty much be, mines everywhere, not many AT guns due to shot blocking objects, mortars to own in an urban environment, PPSH rather than deregyatov (spelled wrong) for strelky upgrade, and molotovs for conscripts. again, TH rather than AT gun, possibly MG bunker. not as many tanks, but mostly anti-infantry ones. oh, and flamers. many flamers.

You know even though it says "Urban doctrine" you don't have to treat it as though you were fighting in a compact city with no leg room. Take the name with a grain of salt. Unless you are getting fast tanks you will always need AT guns. You can't solely rely on mines or THs as main AT as they can be unreliable, even in choke points. And since Partisans and CS will have PPSH guns, you could get DPs in order to fill all ranges of combat. MG is not always advisable as SU is fast paced unlike brits who camp alot.

sorry, but i would only use this doc in an urban map. and i disagree, yes, TH upgunned with mines make excellent AT. ive had many games where ive bought one AT gun, had it get no kills, and still won the game. + what is the poin of an AT gun if it can only get one shot off before the tank dodges behind a building? i wouldn't pick urban unless it was in a map that had many buildings. as for MG nest, i would agree, but if i can lock down one part of the map to focus  on troops on other parts, i would do it.

Its clear we have differing opinions and no one option is truly "wrong" so I guess there is no point of debating it.

we could settle it in a game! but i would have to postpone it till after this week. my screen is damaged so that the whole bottom half is broken.

Well I suck with SU and I have no idea what skill level you are. Im not afraid to fight but pitting a shitty player against a skilled player is by no means a good measure of how well a tactic works.

ahh i see.

Im still up for the challenge ^^. But we are OT so we should continue this via PM.

BTW who uses the KV-2? Because I rarley see it :P

i must say i dont usually use support guns like the KV-2, but if i do, only one at a time.

Cat wrote:
The full rifles upgrade is 17 muni ???

That's correct 17muni/rifle.

stealthattack1 wrote:
sorry, but i would only use this doc in an urban map. and,,,i would agree, but if i can lock down one part of the map to focus  on troops on other parts, i would do it.

Try this. only place the combat groups you expect to require the most micro into the numbered groups. Artillery and rear area troops could be Grouped as well. Change ypur camera POV to a low elevation setting. As you micro your numbered groups hit the unnumbered group. You will see icons in the distance Scattered across the horizon.When they get into trouble your peripheral vision will pick up the yellow or red of the suppression/pinned unit. mouse over the unnumbered group click on the unit in trouble. I takes a bit of getting used to but a suppression warning is better than nothing.

hmm. it sounds good, i guess ill have to try it out.

@ Kat Fishy, To elaborate on the 17muni /rifle deal. I use the price/ weapon basis to quickly judge my economy/ countering needs -early game. PE: GR43 25muni/rifle, St44s 25-19 muni/ assault rifle, Shreks 75-37.5 muni per shrek. IE If I need a quick AT counter ATHT  15 FP, Tank Buster Squad 360/255 MP, PG/shrek 75 muni. We know good management of early economy is crucial. Counter is a quick judgement call. Capische?

The overall price includes an increase to EVERY squad member's accuracy so I think it's better to count it as a part of the full package, rather than individually.

Otto wrote:
IE If I need a quick AT counter ATHT  15 FP, Tank Buster Squad 360/255 MP, PG/shrek 75 muni.?

You need to spend 35 Fuel to get shrecks even available. And they aren't even all that reliable.

Otto wrote:
St44s 25-19 muni/ assault rifle

Well IMO it really depends on who you're getting it for, Stormtroopers or PG squads. Or assault squads who get it for free.

Otto wrote:
Capische?

I guess :P