Soviet tech requirements

Just throwing some things out there, not saying I'm qualified or very good at this mod, but one thing I feel is that fuel costs to get heavy tanks and maybe somewhat for light tanks or too high for my liking. After spending 50ish fuel to make a tank hall you also need to spend extra fuel (and a hefty cost at that) and time to even get the option to build your first real vehicle, light or heavy. My suggestion is to have you start with the light tankovy upgrade already purchased. Also, the munitions cost for 85mm upgunning I think should be lowered to 100 seeing as you still need to pay a much larger sum to by the upgraded vehicle to start with. The soviet support barracks I believe should also have the same change as the tank hall, and let you start with two units that I believe to be the mortar and tank hunter. (i can't remember off the top of my head which two go together. Either mortar and sharpshooter or mortar and tank hunter. THe other is anti-tank gun and I think sharpshooter). Feel free to change or counter my arguments! That would be greatly appreciated.

US must pay I think 95 fuel b4 they can even start making vehicles

Wher must pay 60 fuel to start building Halftracks and 110 fuel to start building better vehicles

Brits must pay 75 fuel to get Stuarts out

SU must pay I think 100 - 110 fuel to get tanks out (not sure). However I think SU can get their tanks out faster :P (not actually sure about that one)


Perhaps its a bit high but its not that bad  :P

And I kinda agree that the 85mm upgrade is a bit high. US must pay 200 mp and 55 fuel to get it. SU must pay like a whooping 125 muni and 55 fuel(not 100% sure about those numbers). Its much easier to get 200 mp than 125 muni. You can get 200 mp in one minute. Chances are it will take a long time to be able to afford the 85mm upgrade(given that you will probably be spending muni throughout the game, not just holding it) And SU has muni upkeep so its even harder. Im not a pro but Im just saying :P

Last edited December 28, 2011 at 5:23 AM by Fishhunterx

The SU get their tanks about the same time the US does, as you have to have a support hall upgrade, the tank hall, and a tank hall upgrade, so it is less fuel over all, but more manpower if i remember. Wehr is screwed on getting tanks out early though, 15 fuel for the first upgrade, 20 for the next one, another 20-40 for the tier 3 upgrade, and then build the strum armory, followed by a stug. But since i don't consider the stug a tank, you have to invest an additional 50 fuel on the final upgrade, build the Panzer, and then pay 80 for the PZIv.

Soviet T3 is almost the same teching as Wehr T3. Soviet T4 is almost the same as US T4.

Personally I'd like to see the tech upgrade for light tanks removed, but the tank hall cost upped a bit. The light tanks just feel like a waste of time in the more competetive matches. Making them less costly would make them more viable.

On a different, but somewhat similar, note, the mustering tent requirement for the command squad is really devestating for the Soviets chances in a competetive match. If any of you ever played CoH:O and imagine the Soviets in that game, you'll quickly realise why this requirement pretty much breaks the faction.

I have no idea of the CoH:O reference and it most certainly does not break the faction.

Removing the tech cost for light tankovy is definitely not something we will do. Their building currently arrives at 105FU, compared to 95 for a motor pool or 105 for Sturm Armoury. It is roughly equivalent in strength to T3 Wehr.

mustering tent requirement  for CS is good because it doesnt give the soviet player the ability to pwn the first wehr pioneer capping a point. What happened was that SU player used to make an ingenery then a CS and while the CS was getting ready, construct a mustering tent. so while the CS came out, the first conscript squad was underway, not to mention another Ingenery squad being produced in the HQ. So The SU would have an extra squad.

Try looking at what the requirement means will be facing off in the field early game. Anyone who has played CoH competitively knows that seize the high resources (preferably fuel) from the first moments of the game. This means Pioneers, or worse, Panzer Grenadiers, will be facing off with Ingenery, which are already arriving late due to having to build a mustering tent. This allows the Germans free access to any buildings around the point(s), thus sealing the fate of an already won battle. With the command squad coming in earlier there would be a real competition for the points.

No. The match isn't won by first contact EVER. Ingenery vs pio is an even battle and they arrive at the same time. You will have 1-2 conscript and CS by the time he has 2 T1 units. CS requiring the mustering tent delays it by about 25sec, a very short time considering how strong the squad is. Do you seriously think it's balanced to have 1 ingy, 1 conscript and 1 CS vs the first volks and 2 pios? CS>Volks alone.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
CS>Volks alone.

Im actually under the assumption that CS=Grenadier

Is this true?

Fishhunterx wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
CS>Volks alone.

Im actually under the assumption that CS=Grenadier

Is this true?

Maybe...CS are better at short range whereas Grenadiers at long range.

If the Grenadiers have vet no question, they win.

Also GLD said that by the time CS squad, Ingenery squad, and conscript squad comes out, about 2 tier1 units will be out for Wher. What about PE? Wont they have 3 PG squads by the time the SU get their stuff, one with G43? Im inclined to think the PG squad will win :P

Fishhunterx wrote:
Also GLD said that by the time CS squad, Ingenery squad, and conscript squad comes out, about 2 tier1 units will be out for Wher. What about PE? Wont they have 3 PG squads by the time the SU get their stuff, one with G43? Im inclined to think the PG squad will win :P

Implying that the PE player knows how to focus his fire onto the Conscripts to eliminate them first, and by keeping the duo at range and keeping even cover among your squads you can win. I feel like that it's a fairly even match up but G43s put the squads over the edge.

Yes, those 3 PG squads will win if they are played properly. Just like they will beat 2 rifles if played right.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Yes, those 3 PG squads will win if they are played properly. Just like they will beat 2 rifles if played right.

2 PGs, one with G43 can beat 2 Rifles in green cover if micro'd correctly. I've pulled it off before.

ATM G43s are OP against American inf

That's true as well but it's more likely that it will be 2 rifles 2 engies vs 3 PGs and a ketty at that stage of the game, in which case it's an even fight slightly favouring PE. Engies do horrible things to PGs sometimes.

and you aren't probably that lucky that you have 20 ammo after upgraded the G43 to supresse a squad and you are right beside heavy cover :p

GodlikeDennis wrote:
No. The match isn't won by first contact EVER. Ingenery vs pio is an even battle and they arrive at the same time. You will have 1-2 conscript and CS by the time he has 2 T1 units. CS requiring the mustering tent delays it by about 25sec, a very short time considering how strong the squad is. Do you seriously think it's balanced to have 1 ingy, 1 conscript and 1 CS vs the first volks and 2 pios? CS>Volks alone.

If you play competitively you know how vital it is to seize those high fuel points early on. The ingenery cannot do that. And seriously, who builds two volks first against soviets? You need an MG, as the soviets have no proper way of taking it out early on (low resources... high leave for a way more interesting battle as it unlocks more options early on) if you're smart about capping a house where it can gun down everything from early on, which you absolutely can pull off as the ingenery have to build the mustering tent before they can get running around. There is no way that battle can be balanced. The Soviets are at a severe disadvantage. They're slower, they have fewer options, and they have poorer options.

If you don't want to remove the CS tent requirement you should at least give one of the three starting units the molotov back so that they can have a tiny chance at taking out those pesky MGs early on. Considering how short the range is now, getting into range can be quite a challenge.

Something has to be done, I don't really care if it's the CS tent requirement getting removed or something else. The Soviets are lacking early on.

Last edited December 31, 2011 at 12:33 PM by Dot.Shadow

Volks, Volks, Sniper, Sniper is a good and common start against soviets as long as you fight them from distance.

I wouldn't say I've ever seen snipers do well against conscripts. There's just too many of them.

I said 2 T1 units, not 2 volks. Volk, MG is the most common start.

Regardless of what you think, conscripts and CS can flank MGs fine and are just as effective as US. Molotovs make the situation even easier. When we play competitively amongst the balance members, the Soviet early game is more balanced now that the Soviet CS can't just barrel down at the cutoff or high point from second 1. Delaying the CS by ~25s is perfect for matching the forces of Wehr and PE.

Snipers do very well against any faction when used right. Soviets are not immune.

I think you are suppose to have the snipers target the CS squad, not the conscrits :P

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I said 2 T1 units, not 2 volks. Volk, MG is the most common start.

Regardless of what you think, conscripts and CS can flank MGs fine and are just as effective as US. Molotovs make the situation even easier. When we play competitively amongst the balance members, the Soviet early game is more balanced now that the Soviet CS can't just barrel down at the cutoff or high point from second 1. Delaying the CS by ~25s is perfect for matching the forces of Wehr and PE.

Snipers do very well against any faction when used right. Soviets are not immune.

This. He never said Volk, Volk.

If you feel so inclined to think we are doing our job incorrectly by ignoring your appeal then perhaps you should face us off?

Dot.Shadow wrote:
If you play competitively you know how vital it is to seize those high fuel points early on. The ingenery cannot do that. And seriously, who builds two volks first against soviets? You need an MG, as the soviets have no proper way of taking it out early on (low resources... high leave for a way more interesting battle as it unlocks more options early on) if you're smart about capping a house where it can gun down everything from early on, which you absolutely can pull off as the ingenery have to build the mustering tent before they can get running around. There is no way that battle can be balanced. The Soviets are at a severe disadvantage. They're slower, they have fewer options, and they have poorer options.

I build 2 volks first before getting dual snipers, and I get by fine.  Sandbags are my friends.  Hell, 4 volks to med bunker T2 works fine too.  Once the command squad is down, conscripts just get eaten alive by volks, provided they have superior micro.  Early on, conscripts are 16 reenforce while volks are 22, but a volk is around 2 times stronger than a conscript.  At T2, Volks also scale infinitely better than conscripts, with vet and MP40s.

I actually find HMG42s useless, but I understand they can be annoying versus Soviets early game, provided they are in a house.  However, Mosin Nagants can penetrate house cover just as well as M1 Garands can.  There are only a few competitive maps where there is a house overlooking the high fuel.  In a situation where he camps that house or a house near your cut-off like on Angoville, you can either take the risk like a man and flank the house and kill the HMG inside USA style or just ignore that side of the map and take the other side.

If he is truly camping one side with the HMG42, he'll have one fewer unit to fight you with on the other side of the map, and you should be able to secure that side.  And if you can't even beat 3 Wehr T1 units with 1 CS and 3 conscripts for example, then you deserve to lose.

Last edited January 1, 2012 at 4:20 AM by Yauz

I also agree with Yauz said.

Besides, capping a building is extremely shitty when there are multiple soviet squads as the MG can only focus in one direction. Building cap is only useful in certain situations and provided your enemy has decent micro it's easier to leave them in heavy cover and watch your flanks rather than leave em' in a house and expect them to take care of themselves.

I think soviet tech requirements for early vehicles are ok. Like other factions it requires a good early game to be able to go that way, and you better be prepared to pump out the conscripts. You can get molotovs to help, and maybe get For the Motherland with your first 3 CPs so you can upgrade your conscripts. You'll also have to bank muni. This can be likened to Americans forgoing BARs to get an M8, or Wehr forgoing grenadiers to get a puma/stug. Not to mention that Soviet T3 is incredibly strong and versatile.

Unitl Paks come out :P Or multiple faust

Fishhunterx wrote:
Or multiple faust

Shrecks right?

No I mean faust.

I had to (painfully) learn from donthateme that when there are multiple Volks squads and Axis hasn't spent any muni, chances are he is waiting for your light armor to stroll by in addition to the Pak he brought along :'(

Its more of a waste. Three faust shots = 1 schreck. And the schreck does more damage and reloads faster. With a med bunker you get the grenadiers for free :P

Well he was Volks spamming and the faust never misses and fires on demand. The shreck's accuracy is left to be desired and fires kinda slow initially (shot per minute, yes its faster) And I mentioned he had a Pak which hits your target and does alot of dmg and b4 it gets away you faust it (like a bren carrier or jeep)

IIRC, the pak one shots the bren/jeep.

I think it one shots the jeep, IIRC it takes 2 shot to kill a full health Bren.

And I meant that you faust a jeep if you damaged it beforehand. If you've got a Pak chances are the Jeep is already dead (unless the player took great care to keep it alive)

why use a faust when you can get mp40s to shred the jeep anyway.

A jeep can back up faster than your MP40 can shred. Chances are it'll be at range the whole time, especially if you start to charge it The Ami player will get suspicious and back up and get repaired :P

And if there are nearby rifleman (if they haven't begun to engage you already) charging a jeep isn't the best idea

The only reason ever to faust a Jeep would be to guarantee that it dies. Otherwise regular combat should work.

Faust against inf in cover <3... Just awsome.
1. It blows away the cover
2. The enemy squad jumps out of the cover (and don't shot for 2 seconds) which also you to get closer with MP40s
3. There is a small chance to one hit a guy or even 2.

Walki wrote:
Faust against inf in cover <3... Just awsome.
1. It blows away the cover
2. The enemy squad jumps out of the cover (and don't shot for 2 seconds) which also you to get closer with MP40s
3. There is a small chance to one hit a guy or even 2.

1. Not worth 35 muni
2. Not worth 35 muni
3. Not worth 35 muni

As Wehr you should be conserving your ammo carefully.

Whenever I play against the comp and they faust my infantry, they seem to always smack and kill one of my soldiers >:(

Fishhunterx wrote:
Whenever I play against the comp and they faust my infantry, they seem to always smack and kill one of my soldiers >:(

Killing one person is not worth 35 muni.

Cranialwizard wrote:

Fishhunterx wrote:
Whenever I play against the comp and they faust my infantry, they seem to always smack and kill one of my soldiers >:(

Killing one person is not worth 35 muni.

Faust a sniper? ;D. JK I already know its not that worth it. I thought I'd just bring that up. Maybe that part of AI could be fixed (by robotnix IIRC)

Trannyhunterx wrote:
Faust a sniper? ;D. JK I already know its not that worth it. I thought I'd just bring that up. Maybe that part of AI could be fixed (by robotnix IIRC)

Was a common strategy in Coh 1.00 - 1.4. However, they fixed Fausts 1-hitting snipers/infantry back then and now it's extremely unlikely for a Panzerfaust to kill a sniper.

Cranialwizard wrote:

Walki wrote:
Faust against inf in cover <3... Just awsome.
1. It blows away the cover
2. The enemy squad jumps out of the cover (and don't shot for 2 seconds) which also you to get closer with MP40s
3. There is a small chance to one hit a guy or even 2.

1. Not worth 35 muni
2. Not worth 35 muni
3. Not worth 35 muni

As Wehr you should be conserving your ammo carefully.

or:
1. Save and get panzerschreck
2. Save and get panzerschreck
3. Save and get panzerschreck

Sometimes you dont have the option of buying shreck :P Or sometimes you just wanna finish off a badly wounded vehicle.

true, but against infantry, panzerfaust is most definitly not worth it.