Changin some of the reward units for all factions

mads wrote:
[...] 2 Fireflies + CCT could easily kill a tiger or king tiger, that can even a tetrach tank do ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JKIZR9zuns

well, where do i start?! the KT player was a massive noob not moving his tank and not repairing it. and it was more like 2 tetrachs, the KT crippled 1 of them, so this vid only proves the noobishness of the wehr player  ::)

but back to topic:
why remove RMC? many players hate the vBrits and think that they are OP, do you want to remove the vBrits as well?!
vBrits may have early AT weaknesses, but they have many things to balance that out. and if you take their weaknesses away, you will make them OP. simple as that.
just wait until RMC are fully balanced and if you still don't like them...just don't use 'em  ;)

Last edited December 9, 2011 at 6:00 PM by Ghost

You rarley ever see 3 fireflies in one game :P. I've seen formations of 2 and a CCT but never have I seen 3 :P

But can vBrits (or RMC) Tommies gain acess to Boys AT rifle after the FHQ is purchased? It would help in AT. Cause atm you need to need to set up the truck, buy sappers (which are weak alone), buy PIATs (which take a bit to process) and then button an enemy down cause most players will back their tanks up when they see the PIAT team. Or buy an AT gun which is powerful but can be unreliable :P

I have just played a game of of COH ef, with both RMC and without. It is not necessary with 2 of a kind, but it the RMC there is 3 if you choose Commando royal support. Sapper’s whit PIATs, PIAT Commando and sas raiders, that is 3. Then there is the tetrach tank and Daimler armored car. And Commando and sas raiders.
Why would anyone ever choose royal commando support when you have the half of it in advance.

The Sherman Firefly and M10 archiles. Then there is the Bren caries and the sas recon jeeps.
To me it seems as if many of the new units are not necessary.
There is no reason to have 2 of a kind.

And yes if you take away all the British's weaknesses they will be op you have done that whit he rmc. Only give them Boys Anti-Tank Rifles and Matilda 2 og det vil være balanceret. Those 2 units would be perfect in mid game. The Matilda 2 will most of all, resemble a miniature of Churchill in many ways.

Sappers.
Boy’s anti-tank rifles: (75 Munitions). Reward weapon for the PIATs.
Same stats as the soviets anti-tank rifles.

Matilda 2.
The Matilda 2 will most of all, resemble a miniature of Churchill in many ways.
Armor:  20 to 78 mm max
almost the same armor as a cromwell.
Main armament: Ordnance QF 2 pounder
too weak to really be able to do damage.
Secondary armament: 7.92 mm Besa machine gun
Speed: (26 km/h on road)-(14 km/h off road)
too slow to be able to hunt down light vehicles.
Upgrades: first after the Cromwell Command Tank has been build.
Tank Commander:(10 Munitions).
Bulldozer: (75 Munitions).
Hedgehog: (100 Munitions).

Give the British those 2 things and they will be fun and balanced.

What does this Hedgehog ability for 100 muni do?

mads wrote:
Rifle grenades does not hit particularly good, but this is where you should use Lieutenant. otherwise build a Mortar Emplacement they can pick infantry out of buildings. ;)

Lieutenant.
Veterancy:
Default: 15% Increased Weapon Accuracy, +1 Speed.
Level 1: Heroic Charge Ability, +15 health on self.
Level 2: 10% Reduced accuracy on self. 15% + Weapon Accuracy, 25% Reduced Cooldown Weapon.
Level 3: +80 Exp, +4 Pop.

Sherman Firefly is good, but up against 2 panthers, they will die.

Panzer Elite can get 2 panthers for 1000 manpower.

the British can get 3 Sherman and a Cromwell Command Tank 1560 manpower and 350 fuel.
just saying. :-\

So you suggest a static emplacement with low range, no mobility and capturable by the enemy to do the job of a flametrower?

Ridle nades are pretty decent. And they can hide behind a wall or hedgegrow and fire  :P

Can they ever replace mortars?

Not really. A single riflenade squad probably wont do too well. Mortar is meant to help clear buildings out and cover an area with mortar fire i guess :P. Helps vs infantry :P

what do you mean whit low range? a Mortar has a longer range than both rifle grenades and flametrowers, so what do you mean low range? ???
and no no no enemy should never ever have the opportunity to capture it, Defend it or delete it if there are problems.

Hedgehog is an upgrade and gives it an artillery ability. Just Google Matilda 2 Hedgehog. don’t know how to post pictures sry. :-\

I do not know if it was used in war, but from what I know neither was knights cross holders.

If you are not careful they will capture your mortar pit and also if you delete them you don't get manpower back, neither can you reinforce them. So it will always be inferior to the american one.

mads wrote:
I have just played a game of of COH ef, with both RMC and without. It is not necessary with 2 of a kind, but it the RMC there is 3 if you choose Commando royal support. Sapper’s whit PIATs, PIAT Commando and sas raiders, that is 3. Then there is the tetrach tank and Daimler armored car. And Commando and sas raiders.
Why would anyone ever choose royal commando support when you have the half of it in advance.

The Sherman Firefly and M10 archiles. Then there is the Bren caries and the sas recon jeeps.
To me it seems as if many of the new units are not necessary.
There is no reason to have 2 of a kind.

And yes if you take away all the British's weaknesses they will be op you have done that whit he rmc. Only give them Boys Anti-Tank Rifles and Matilda 2 og det vil være balanceret. Those 2 units would be perfect in mid game. The Matilda 2 will most of all, resemble a miniature of Churchill in many ways.

Sappers.
Boy’s anti-tank rifles: (75 Munitions). Reward weapon for the PIATs.
Same stats as the soviets anti-tank rifles.

Matilda 2.
The Matilda 2 will most of all, resemble a miniature of Churchill in many ways.
Armor:  20 to 78 mm max
almost the same armor as a cromwell.
Main armament: Ordnance QF 2 pounder
too weak to really be able to do damage.
Secondary armament: 7.92 mm Besa machine gun
Speed: (26 km/h on road)-(14 km/h off road)
too slow to be able to hunt down light vehicles.
Upgrades: first after the Cromwell Command Tank has been build.
Tank Commander:(10 Munitions).
Bulldozer: (75 Munitions).
Hedgehog: (100 Munitions).

Give the British those 2 things and they will be fun and balanced.

omg, where do i start  ;D

1. sorry, but i think the vBrits are rather OP than UP and giving them additional AT options makes it even worse...
2. having 2 units for the same role is part of the game (stug-pzIV-panther...) and every unit has different pros/cons
3. what's going to be the difference between piat and AT rifle?
4. according to the info it found the matilda was mainly used in north africa or by the russians via lend/lease
5. what units will the matilda replace?
6. if the gun is useless (you said it is too weak) than what's the point of this unit? it would be slower than a KT making it only cannon fodder  ???

Last edited December 10, 2011 at 5:29 PM by Ghost

I was thinkin we shuld not use the matilda but the valentine as it is the matilda successor although almost havin the same weapons it actually the later models of the valentine was equipped with a 6 pdr AT gun i suggest we put this in with the hedgehog, bulldozer and take out the tank commander to put in the 6 pdr AT gun for about 70 - 120 munitions OR have an upgrade in the command truck making the 6 pdr gun default when u build it so instead of the matilda use the valentine as it was also mainly used in north africa it was also used by the russian on lend-lease

Sry my English is not the best but do you want the Matilda or the valentine in the game? Because the hedgehogs and bulldozers were never used on a valentine tank.  :-\
You could also use it as a reward unit for the Matilda 2. If you choose Matilda you get better armor but less firepower, if you choose valentine you get more firepower but less armor.  ;)
Upgrades for the valentine tank could be.

(The QF 75 mm gun or the QF 6-pounder gun)
(Better engine and a side skirt upgrade)

Ghost wrote:

mads wrote:
I have just played a game of of COH ef, with both RMC and without. It is not necessary with 2 of a kind, but it the RMC there is 3 if you choose Commando royal support. Sapper’s whit PIATs, PIAT Commando and sas raiders, that is 3. Then there is the tetrach tank and Daimler armored car. And Commando and sas raiders.
Why would anyone ever choose royal commando support when you have the half of it in advance.

The Sherman Firefly and M10 archiles. Then there is the Bren caries and the sas recon jeeps.
To me it seems as if many of the new units are not necessary.
There is no reason to have 2 of a kind.

And yes if you take away all the British's weaknesses they will be op you have done that whit he rmc. Only give them Boys Anti-Tank Rifles and Matilda 2 og det vil være balanceret. Those 2 units would be perfect in mid game. The Matilda 2 will most of all, resemble a miniature of Churchill in many ways.

Sappers.
Boy’s anti-tank rifles: (75 Munitions). Reward weapon for the PIATs.
Same stats as the soviets anti-tank rifles.

Matilda 2.
The Matilda 2 will most of all, resemble a miniature of Churchill in many ways.
Armor:  20 to 78 mm max
almost the same armor as a cromwell.
Main armament: Ordnance QF 2 pounder
too weak to really be able to do damage.
Secondary armament: 7.92 mm Besa machine gun
Speed: (26 km/h on road)-(14 km/h off road)
too slow to be able to hunt down light vehicles.
Upgrades: first after the Cromwell Command Tank has been build.
Tank Commander:(10 Munitions).
Bulldozer: (75 Munitions).
Hedgehog: (100 Munitions).

Give the British those 2 things and they will be fun and balanced.

omg, where do i start  ;D

1. sorry, but i think the vBrits are rather OP than UP and giving them additional AT options makes it even worse...
2. having 2 units for the same role is part of the game (stug-pzIV-panther...) and every unit has different pros/cons
3. what's going to be the difference between piat and AT rifle?
4. according to the info it found the matilda was mainly used in north africa or by the russians via lend/lease
5. what units will the matilda replace?
6. if the gun is useless (you said it is too weak) than what's the point of this unit? it would be slower than a KT making it only cannon fodder  ???

1.
how do you find vBrits op. RMC has a million times as many units that can handle any job, where are their weaknesses. ???

2.
why do people so constantly say that there is no need for two of a kind?

3.
AT-rifles are more accurate than PIATs, but do less damage.

4.
there you are right but they were also used in france. ;)

5.
no one, but if you find this sounds silly then let it replace the stuart.

6.
the point of this tank here is to protect the the infantry so that the infantry can move in and take the kill (it is an infantry tank, it is supposed to support the infantry). And yes its role is cannon fodder, but if supported by infantry it will be a deadly combination. The most of the Matildas that was lost in france was because of lack of infantry as support. The Matilda had much armor and with a buldozer upgrades even more armor to the front. With the bulldozer upgraded it should almost be able to fight a fair fight with a stug 1vs1 but still lose. :)

Quote1.how do you find vBrits op. RMC has a million times as many units that can handle any job, where are their weaknesses. ???

more units does not mean OP. it's their unique style with the trucks, tiers and strong defenses/arty that messes with the vCoH system and makes them near to impossible to balance.

Quote
2.why do people so constantly say that there is no need for two of a kind?

IMO it is not important how many units there are for the same role.

Quote
4.there you are right but they were also used in france. ;)

well, i couldn't find any data about that. just about north africa i found it. but there were just a few used by the brits in 1940 in france

Quote
5.no one, but if you find this sounds silly then let it replace the stuart.

the problem of adding a new unit (without dropping one) is that it will require a lot of balancing and sorry, but i don't see a need to add it.

Quote
6.the point of this tank here is to protect the the infantry so that the infantry can move in and take the kill (it is an infantry tank, it is supposed to support the infantry). And yes its role is cannon fodder, but if supported by infantry it will be a deadly combination. The most of the Matildas that was lost in france was because of lack of infantry as support. The Matilda had much armor and with a buldozer upgrades even more armor to the front. With the bulldozer upgraded it should almost be able to fight a fair fight with a stug 1vs1 but still lose. :)

again, i don't see why it is needed. if you need such a tank, choose royal eng. and call-in a churchill. if that matilda is added to the 2nd truck and requires the leut. upgrade to unlock it. it would have to be balanced so that it comes at the right time for the right price. if it comes too early it would screw up balance, if it comes to late it would be useless.
about the upgrades:
- bulldozer would come to early in the game, making tank traps more or less useless from midgame.
- that hedgehog was developed in 1945 and never mass-produced, so it's prototype or postwar stuff.

Last edited December 13, 2011 at 5:26 PM by Ghost

Ghost wrote:
[...]

Quote
2.why do people so constantly say that there is no need for two of a kind?

IMO it is not important how many units there are for the same role.

[...]

Well, RMC glider has a lot of units, we need to check this out in order to avoid that problem.

@Ghost: You brought uo the point that if someone needed a cannon fodder tank, they should get a chruchill. Maybe the Matilda could replace the churchill ???. IDK how much armor Matildas had but it could be a faster but weaker version of a churchill. Both have weak guns :P. Just an idea to consider :D

There are 3 different Churchills. So it means 3 different Matildas, who is gonna animate that?

Tankbuster wrote:
There are 3 different Churchills. So it means 3 different Matildas, who is gonna animate that?

IDK. Just a suggestion  :-\

@Fishhunterx:
IMO that would work perfectly.
1. matilda call-in
2. churchill AVRE call-in
3. churchill call-in with upgrade to crocodile or mine plow

i never understood why to have 3 churchills  ::)
balancing could be done by changing armor, speed, costs and CPs.
would be more change of vCoH though  :-\

Ghost wrote:
i never understood why to have 3 churchills  ::)

Me neither  :P. Why have 1 churchill have a gun and a plow while the other has a gun and a flamer :P? I know its balance but it looks weird  :P

Fishhunterx wrote:
[quote author=Ghost link=topic=7063.msg98773#msg98773 date=1323877485]
i never understood why to have 3 churchills  ::)

maybe cause brits have no tanks, therfore, they have to clone the same one in order to compete?

Brits have Comwell, Firefly, CCT, and Stuart. Thats 4. US has Sherman, Sherman Croc, M10. Thats 3  :P. Brits aren't lacking tanks  :P

The Stuart seems more like a tankette.
As for the Churchills, they kinda seem a part of the doctrine.

Stuarts are resistent to gunfire. Its good enough  ;D

Throw an AT grenade at them.

See how they run away

Yeah. The sturat will back up when you throw it. And then roll right back where it was  :P

Then use AT HT, Immobilize them.
Throw an AT grenade at them.
See how they blow up

Stuart, tetrarch and stag are ACs or equivalent. CCT doesn't really count. Brits therefore have 3 tanks: Crom, FF, Churchill. US has 4: Croc, Sherman, M10, Persh.

In EF, Brits also have the Achilles and comet of which one is a reward. US also gains 2 tanks in EF, with 1 as reward and the other replacing a unit that is not a tank (Jumbo-Calli).

Well considering how the croc and the basic sherman count as 2 seperte tanks, the Brits theoretically have 5 tanks since each churchill variant does a different thing  :P

They all support infantry. That is all.

it really doesnt matter how many tanks the brits have, i was just suggesting that maybe they dont have that many since i rarely see that many during games.

stealthattack1 wrote:
since i rarely see that many during games.

That in itself is rare :P

well the brits ive had the [irony]pleasure[/irony] of playing against have mostly been campers.

IMO its not good to camp it out :P. Against higher lvl players you will probably see more tanks. Although I have been paired up with some brit allies (in 2vs2 ofc) who insist on camping one small area. Guess which team loses :'(

Meh, RMC is way better.

Tankbuster wrote:
Meh, RMC is way better.

Yea RMC is the 1337  . . . . . .

the 1337?? what does that mean?

Its some sorta internet term. I never really understood it  :-\

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=1337

I guess I get it. Its kinda like when ppl use letters to make animals or images.

-----------

Thats a worm  ;D

I would like to see the curchill MKVII somewhere in game, maybe for the RMC instead of the comet. Excelent armor and a decent 75mm gun. could be upgraded to 6 pounder gun for better AT power

Why would you upgrade a 75 mm gun to a 57 mm one.

You must mean the other way around robotnik. ;)
Here are some gun comparisons.

British tank guns of the Second World War
Gun : Shell : weight : Muzzle velocity : Muzzle energy
          (lb)  (kg) (ft/s) (m/s) (kJ)
2 pdr   2        0.9 2,650 810  295

6 pdr      6     2.8 3,000  910 1,100

75 mm  14.9    6.8 2,050 620 1,300

17 pdr 17   7.7 2,950 900 3,100


a Churchill with extra armor and the same gun as a Cromwell. it could be a little exciting. but not as a replacement for the Sherman Firefly, maybe for the Churchill Crocodile.

295 kJ

It won't even dissociate Iodine

seriously, i think somebody messed up.

Reward option for the M4 croc? Yes, we have the 105 sherman...why not something else? Or as a replacement for the M8--the current patch's T17 is utter crap (IMO) and EF deserves something...better? Or at least more interesting.

Unit idea is for the M5 Stuart 'Rhino'. I originally drew up the Rhino for CoH: Europe in Ruins: Reinforcements as well as other reward units, the majority of which were generally accepted as good ideas. The M5 for use in the context of EF (a non persistent, semi-vCoH environment) is in the first of the two attached PDF documents, and the full PDF with all of the units that were drawn up for EiR: R is thrown in below if anyone is interested in browsing through it for unit ideas.

For the most part, armored units' weapons' names are taken from coh-stats, while infantry weapons' names are drawn directly from the RGDs via Corsix--if it's on treads you'll probably have to check coh-stats and then find the statistical equivilent within the RGDs, as I'm sure the names probably don't match.

Cookie for anyone that can find the unit in the full PDF that made its debut in one of my EF concepts, went to EiR, and came back  8).

EDIT: The 'Repair' ability that's mentioned under Upgrades isnt supposed to be there. I missed it when I was editing the stats.

Last edited January 1, 2012 at 7:25 AM by TheVolskinator

The American's new reward units are all good with the exception of the Sherman jumbo. I will never ever prefer the Sherman jumbo over the Sherman calliope. In my opinion is the Sherman jumbo is too bad compared to Sherman Calliope. The Sherman jumbo is otherwise a great tank but it can simply not replace the Sherman Calliope. Therefore I think it should be removed.

Here are 3 suggestions on new reward units that could replace the Sherman jumbo.

M22 Locust:
As the fourth and new reward unit, I could see M22 Locust replace the Para dropped 57mm AT Gun. As far as I know it was intended to be parachuted on to the battlefield. This never happened but it was sent down with gliders. As this is only a game, I think it would have best effect if it came down by parachute.
M22 Locust will in many ways resemble a tetrarch tank, approximately the same speed, armor and main gun.

lvt4 water buffalo:
And now to a really cool unit the lvt4 water buffalo 8). Lvt4 Water buffalo could be a great new reward unit for the M3 Half Track. Armed to the teeth with 2 × .50 cal Browning hmg and 2 × .30 cal Browning hmg and armor up to 6-13mm thick, this vehicle could bring troops forward through the toughest terrain under light fire. It could transporter more troops at a time than the M3 Half Track and if need small vehicles. However it will run slower.

2 upgrades would be possible.
75 mm Howitzer: a 75-mm Howitzer will be upgraded and thicker armor. But can no longer serve as troop transports.
37 mm Gun M6: a 37 mm Gun M6 will be upgraded plus thicker armor. But can no longer serve as troop transports.

Maybe the Sherman Jumbo could replace the M10 or the Hellcat. Heavier armor + 76mm gun would make it an okay TD. We could probably tweak a few stats to make it more in line with the stats of a TD

Na vCoH reward units aren't going to be replaced (unfortunately)