1.510: Getting Strelky infantry

My question is on the Strelky infantry. Right now, the requirement to get them forces you on the Support Barracks tech tree: it doesn't matter which upgrade you spring for (close range or long range support), you still get them only if you go T2. Okay.

Now, would it be possible to open another branch for them, by allowing them to be built if you have a Tank Hall up and running, or an upgraded Tank Hall?

This would open up more incentives for players to go T1 -> T3, which is an option especially against the Panzer Elite. This way, you can get the light tanks out onto the field and still not get your Conscript squads eaten alive by upgraded P-Grens. So far there is a way for this to work: if you go Urban Combat and get "For the Motherland" to unlock full rifles for the Conscripts. But that's strictly doctrinal. I would like to ask if allowing Strelky to be built after a Support Barracks upgrade or building the Tank Hall is a viable option for all doctrines.

Having to back tech is part of the consequences for T3/T4 rush. To compare, you don't get better inf if you t3 rush as Wehrmacht right?

Theres a few ways to get better inf inbetween backteching and rushing. You can upgrade to sturmovie, while it delays tanks it gives you access to extremely powerful infantry for midgame. You can also go propaganda for Navals, securing both at an AI measures or urban for partisans to ambush grens/pgrens

Hmm, that does make sense. It would restrict you if went with Breakthrough, seeing that they don't have any infantry call-ins until the Tank Riders show up.

I suppose the drawback is that Sturmovies are rather munitions-expensive, and Naval Infantry even more so. (120 muni for a pair of Degtyarevs!) For that matter, so are upgraded Conscripts, but they get replaced so quickly you don't really notice. And as you've mentioned, Partisans are great for ambushing Gren/P-gren squads on their way to the battlefield, but in a stand-up fight they don't last long. Hence, I have reservations about using them to back up the Conscript/Command Squad blob, unless the map is particularly muni-high.

Hmm, thanks for the idea, though.

sandycaesar wrote:
Hmm, that does make sense. It would restrict you if went with Breakthrough, seeing that they don't have any infantry call-ins until the Tank Riders show up.

I suppose the drawback is that Sturmovies are rather munitions-expensive, and Naval Infantry even more so. (120 muni for a pair of Degtyarevs!) For that matter, so are upgraded Conscripts, but they get replaced so quickly you don't really notice. And as you've mentioned, Partisans are great for ambushing Gren/P-gren squads on their way to the battlefield, but in a stand-up fight they don't last long. Hence, I have reservations about using them to back up the Conscript/Command Squad blob, unless the map is particularly muni-high.

Hmm, thanks for the idea, though.

Assuming you are playing automatch settings and you have at least a 1/3 of the battlefield you can presume you'd have quite an amount of munitions by midgame (Arty Strike unlocks and other upgrades begin to unroll at this time...Maybe this will be changed next patch?)

By the time you unlock sturmovie/navals you should have enough munitions to pump out 1-3 squads (upgraded) of either. Navals are much like weapon-specialist, they come default with SVT-40s which deal great damage at nearly any range (Similar to G43s). If you prefer SVT40s that's your choice, but because of the immeasurable gap between T1-T3 it leaves you with absolutely no AT support options until you start pumping SU-85s. I would recommend upgrading one of your navals to PRTDs and one of them to DP28s for extra specified firepower. Remember you're never forced to get the 2nd upgrade but when it comes to PRTDs I feel as if it's neccesary. DP-28s not so much.

You could, of course, always mix Sturmovies and Navals. You're talking about a steep manpower cost but they could potentially make an extremely deadly T3 rush infantry matchup before you backtech for Shock Guards. (Think about Wehrmacht- T3 blitz is normally accompanied by a T1 heavy support with Stormtroopers for the obvious reason of their good upgrades and versatility, along with their health and good vet bonii)

I always try to build a T-90 first in a rush. It seems silly because you'd think it can't engage armor well enough to compete but T-90s do match up to Pumas, Halftracks, and ACs fairly well. T-70s are better used for this but T90s can engaged both infantry and these vehicles. SU-85s will be used to kill off Stugs/other P4 armor type tanks.

When it comes to Breakthrough...I would actually use that doctrine in more of a heavy T2-T4 skip. You are correct about it's lack of infantry call-ins (Besides Mechanics, which aren't really a combat unit) and the doctrine does not quite give too many bonuses to infantry. But with Armory upgrades you can give plenty of boni to your T2 troops to hold you off until you can get SU-76/T-34 Tank Riders. Then you tech up to T4 and use RBS/SGs combines with T-34s/KVs to make a deadly finishing touch to your T2.

Really? T-90s are good versus Pumas? I've got to try that out. I've only been trying T1-T3 very recently, but in my experience T-90s haven't been much use against vehicles. They make up for it by terrorizing just about every kind of infantry to take the field, which is why I try to get a T-70 and then a T-90 (or a SU-85 if I need the anti-armor fast).

Cranial's advice is pretty much spot on. Strelky will not be available for a T3 rush because it's simply too good. However, you can use the doctrines to supplement your rush.