Doctrines

I just want to see everyone's thoughts on this.  Feel free to comment why you felt this way.

Hard choose for me... every SU doctrine have something good and bad.

I say Propaganda is fine as it is
Urban is very good aswell and BT is just way OP with IS-152 and SU-76 (that thing is the worst that happened to the axis since the British)

seems to me they are well balanced at this point.  :P

Propaganda is OP IMO.

GOW is just ridiculously OP for 175 muni compared to other doctrinal abilites. Strafe run is 150 muni and only hurts infantry. Bombing run is 250 :(. Tanks cost muni but that argument only applies if you intend on buying large amonts of tanks which isn't neccessarily required of every game ::)

The Kataushas are basically Sherman Calliopes on a studebaker. Yes they are more light skinned but you can make 3 of them and they cost 1/2 the amount of a Calliope but same firepower >:(.

And how does the 76 mm fit in this doctrine? Yes its balanced(thats what other ppl say) but it doesn't fit the "propaganda" theme of the other abilites. Naval infantry is the same case. Its nice but it doesn't feel 'propaganda" like :P.

Red tide, if Im correct doesn't cost anything which should be changed. It encourages people to just make 1 big blob(or 2 if you're flanking) and charge them, anticipating everyone to die but inflict significant dmg, only to respawn in the HQ. Its like AWM which isnt bad but AWM cost 150 for 2 tanks while Red tide is 5 squad IIRC and is free :(

And I forgot the other abilities so I can't say whether they are OP or UP :P

Kats aren't just "cheaper calliopes" but also weaker than calliopes armor-wise and damage-wise. Don't know why you think they have the same firepower.

How does the 76 mm fits? Dunno... coughartillerycoughtreecough.

My bad :-[. I thought they were just weaker armor wise. Not damage wise :P

And I guess the coughartycoughtree makes sense now that I think about it ;D.

But I still feel the same way about the other stuff :P

I'll borrow Killar's table :P:

* range: Kats 200, calli 250
* distance_scatter_max: kats 20, calli 25
* target tables: only little modifiers but mostly the same
* damage: kats 62,5; calli 50
* rockets: kats 16, callis 30

That means kats deal 1000 damage with their 16 rockets and callis 1500 with 30 (without messing with modifiers). Perhaps could be nerfed a little bit :P.

Last edited September 25, 2011 at 7:44 PM by blackbishop

This may seem dumb but whats a target table. And I'm assuming a scatter max is how much the rockets scatter ???

IMO it seems Kats gain vet faster (maybe its an optical illusion). Whats the vet of both Calliope and Kats?. Or at least do any gain off bounus with vet ???

Last edited September 25, 2011 at 7:47 PM by Fishhunterx

Propaganda - reason: Red Tide ability.

either Prop for
red tide/GOW/Kats
or breakthrough for tank riders/IL2 runs.
urban combat is okayish only seems to require a bit of reshuffling.

Urban lacks AT :P IMO. That wouldn't be so bad but its AI is a bit expensive and hard to get. Partisans are good but still :-\. I only recently learned they can spawn from buildings :o

BT: IS3/ISU152 + SU-76 + Tank Riders + IL2 Strafe  :-\

Desert_Fox wrote:
BT: IS3/ISU152 + SU-76 + Tank Riders + IL2 Strafe  :-\

....+ IL2 Strafe  :-\ = Flaming base + flaming player ;D

Everyone seems to think BT is the most OP :P/ Maybe if cost went up ???

I'm surprised at the amount of people who thought Prop was the most OP.

There are going to be some changes to the BT doctrine that might make it less powerful but right now is just a planning phase.

We are adjusting stats and other things all the time. So you might be surprised when the next patch comes out.

All the discussions are about the current patch and its issues that have already been changed or will be changed.

I currently don´t go prop dunno why. Maybe i don´t like some features about it. Either Urban or BT. Depends on the early circumstances. (FTML or Inspired speech)

if you have enough mun to use it i would say atm propaganda is the strongest doctrin

but as killar already said you should looking forward to our next patch :D

well the power of a doc depends mainly on what enemy has on field and what is needed... if mainly enemy tanks are driving around, prop doc may not be a good idea... but like ape said, when u have enough ammo, prop is strongest doc in generell i think cause most of the games are carried out by inf not by tanks...

Last edited September 26, 2011 at 12:15 AM by donthateme

Prop is fine for me but the 76mm is cool but pvps itss dangerous to build because i hate enplacements plus i never use prop.Urban needs a a\little buff, just a really small one and i think it would be perfect.BT is OP because of the ccall in t34 , i won many games against far better players then me because of it. and i know its going to be fixed i just wanted to give my thoughts on the current set up

why does urban need a buff foxy? they have insane Partisans, free flares and the KV-2 (rape on treads)

Pauly3 wrote:
why does urban need a buff foxy? they have insane Partisans, free flares and the KV-2 (rape on treads)

I think he wants street fighting ealier. But Its being switched with KV-2 so I dont see what else Urban needs besides AT :P

earlier street fighting? its gonna be rape for wehr...strelky nades, sturmovie ownage and incendary mortar
overkill....

I thought Street Fighting cost were going up ??? So it shouldn't be AS bad :P

i must say, urban doctrine imo is one of the most fun to play.

su76 sucks, i might have lost 1 tank to one since it was introduced to game. I always kill these things with Stugs. They have less firepower than a marder and about the same armor for an overpriced cost. If they cost 500 I might use 1 every once and awhile.

kv2 sucks too its turret turns so slow, id much rather have su122 that can traverse its whole body about 10x faster than the kv2 turret. I can live with it being slow but that turret will kill u if it turns around the has to retarget something infront of it.

the support gun that u get with prop is awesome against comps and newbs but against good player you might kill 1 infantry squad before they realize its there and then take it out with arty or blitz.

So atleast all commanders have a almost totally worthless unit.

I prefer Prop. You can use Naval if you are skipping str8 for tanks. Katushyas are cheap, and redtide is awesome for killing 1 man squads without having to pay to reinforce. God of war is the best artillery support in game. In most circumstances its better to have a big spread on arty because most good players dont stand still and let themselves get pummeled. Atleast god of war can get lucky and hit units in full sector.

I play alot of Urban also Su122 is nasty, partisans rock, I never use flamers as soviets to much work to get to and I always get flamers killed so quickly. Sniper ace can break a stalemate with its infiltrating ability and arty strike.

Breakthrough might be most balanced you get tons of call ins and a munition ability that is decent, the airstrike is more of a deterent because no good player will sit in that sector and let themselves be bombed. Su152 is a great unit but it cant be used by itself at all it fire to slow for that. Is3 is awesome but I prefer su152 for recallins.

SU 76 is crazy awesome
2 of those things stop any german armour attack

No no, urban is alright.

No one touch it.

Its fine >:D

Sorry Seeme, super Partisans have to go, I loved them too _{(no homo)}

It might not be homo_{but its still creepy :P}

i really still think street fighting needs like an extra strelky buff like karg41 AT nades for 30 or 20 munitions so urban can be utilized just for inf.but the problem with street fighting is that its the munitions abilitys are not used by me becuase if i go urban i creep up with ATs strelky and maybe a kv2 but if u want to get a incenderary motar barrage u need a motar team which has a munitions upkeep and so does the ATs and that one tank.i never have enough munitions to use any of the abilitys. klaus u say the kv2 sucks but friday night it didnt  ::) no homo. i supported and crept up with my main force. your PE blob didnt have much of a chance. i was very scared of your huge mader squad...... i kept looking for it ;D

I just rewatch that game, named it beatfoxybuthebeatme , the kv2 is no uneffective it just the cost, also flgator moved up his at gun at worst time and u happen to attack right then so it was rape fest. I normally go str8 for pnz4 but for some reason went with mortar halftrack which I think only help me marginally. That was a game where if it was not vp I think your team would have won because you whooped my shit and my allies were just beating the other 2 slightly.

I still feel the kv2 is overpriced. Sure on a narrow maps where the turret is mostly pointing foward it can be useful. If the tank ai knew to traverse instead of moving its turret in most instances it could target faster. The su122 fire same shell (i think), cost 150 less, is faster mover, fires faster and doesn't have super slow turret. By itself it might be more vunerable but the extra 150 means might mean reinforcing my infantry to fight with the su122.

I agree about munitions thing and street fighting. I normally only have enough munitions to use that stuff once or twice then I am going to be out for most of the remainder of game.

FLgator was never on my side it was a stolen pak and a zis.but yes your marder team could destroyed kv2 if i wasnt careful but u used it to support your allies.the kv2 has higher direct damage and splash damage then the SU122.Its more of a faster moving and firing stuh42

Propaganda!The others accordingly the map and the enemy.