How to use Guards effectively?

Since 1.5, Guards have become somewhat different. 4 man squad with 8 popcap, and I think they come with 1 SVT and 3 Mosin nagants. Before 1.5, I've been using them as frontline infantry. For some reason, they don't work like that anymore. I use them as "Tank Guards" now.

They're still very powerful, capable of tacking almost all infantry. I thnik it can rival KCH with an upgrade. In groups of 2-3 they're pretty lethal. And Vet1 stops suppresion so using an MG to stop a blob of them wont work :(

irik wrote:
Since 1.5, Guards have become somewhat different. 4 man squad with 8 popcap, and I think they come with 1 SVT and 3 Mosin nagants. Before 1.5, I've been using them as frontline infantry. For some reason, they don't work like that anymore. I use them as "Tank Guards" now.

This was exactly the intent. Guards have never supposed to have been mainline troops. My changes worked well I think to make them more like an elite breakthrough squad rather than being spammed.

Fishhunterx wrote:
They're still very powerful, capable of tacking almost all infantry. I thnik it can rival KCH with an upgrade. In groups of 2-3 they're pretty lethal.

They are supposed to be powerful. KCH and Guards don´t take each other much. Guards have a lethal grenade that take much of the health. KCH have assault nades that have a higher range than guards grenade and are much more lethal.
Snipers help vs. guards alot. KCH need 2 shots to kill the first squad member.

I thought Guards needed 2 shots ???

Fishhunterx wrote:
They're still very powerful, capable of tacking almost all infantry. I thnik it can rival KCH with an upgrade.

1v1, Guards will rape vet 3 KCH.  When you see KCH, just be happy your opponent is investing so much manpower to give your Guards free vet.

This isn't a balance problem with the Guards though.  Its a balance problem with KCH because they're just epic fail like no other unit except perhaps the PE Swim.  Even with the regeneration bonus they get now, they're still pretty useless versus any other "elite" squad.  You pretty much have to spend munitions on the med pack to stand a good chance of winning any fight versus elites.

Vet 3 Grens / PGs fare much better versus Guards, and the latter will actually beat Guards in a 1v1.

To answer the OP on how to use Guards efficiently, just use them as a breakthrough unit as Dennis said.  Against Wehr use them in a separate group to flank and kill MGs and also catch snipers on the retreat.  Against PE, exploit your initial advantage to the max when the Guards first come out and bully those PG squads into submission before they get vet and come knocking for revenge.

On the other hand, you must retreat well and timely with Guards, because at 45 MP per man and a high upkeep, there's really no way to unfuck yourself if you lose a lot of them.

Last edited September 19, 2011 at 11:09 PM by Yauz

Yauz wrote:
On the other hand, you must retreat well and timely with Guards, because at 45 MP per man and a high upkeep, there's really no way to unfuck yourself if you lose a lot of them.

LOL. Frank but true ;D ;D. Wat is the upkeep of Guards ???

Approximately 16MP/min for the 4 man squad. For comparison, Rangers and Airborne are around 25MP/min for the 6 man squad.

So about 4 mp each :P. IIRC Airborne is 17.5 ???

Yauz wrote:
1v1, Guards will rape vet 3 KCH.  When you see KCH, just be happy your opponent is investing so much manpower to give your Guards free vet.

Only with PPS upgrade and vet. SVT will loose vs. SGT44.
Besides the assault nades are more powerful than the guard grenade. Vet3 KCH will always loose vs vet3 Guard with PPS when not using nades

what yauz says is true
KCH suck donkey balls, get volks they atleast feed the med bunker :D

Last edited September 20, 2011 at 7:15 PM by Pauly3

Fishhunterx wrote:

Yauz wrote:
On the other hand, you must retreat well and timely with Guards, because at 45 MP per man and a high upkeep, there's really no way to unfuck yourself if you lose a lot of them.

LOL. Frank but true ;D ;D. Wat is the upkeep of Guards ???

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Approximately 16MP/min for the 4 man squad. For comparison, Rangers and Airborne are around 25MP/min for the 6 man squad.

What is the upkeep for 4m grens and PGs?

Grens cost around 5MP/min upkeep per 4 men. PGs and Brit units have practically no upkeep - their amounts are negligible.

Killar wrote:

Yauz wrote:
1v1, Guards will rape vet 3 KCH.  When you see KCH, just be happy your opponent is investing so much manpower to give your Guards free vet.

Only with PPS upgrade and vet. SVT will loose vs. SGT44.
Besides the assault nades are more powerful than the guard grenade. Vet3 KCH will always loose vs vet3 Guard with PPS when not using nades

PPS Guards will definitely win Vet 3 KCH every time, and in case anyone is wondering, that goes double for the PPS Command Squad too.  SVT Guards can win too if you make the KCH charge, which really isn't that hard to do, since SVTs out-range MP44.

KCH Assault Nades is just a joke.  I can't believe this was even put into the equation vs the Guards.  2 men throwing Assault Nades doesn't do jack squat.  The only time Assault Nades are worth using is when you have Volks, where at least 4 men to throw them.

Last edited September 20, 2011 at 5:09 PM by Yauz

Pauly3 wrote:
KCH suck donkey balls, get volks they atleast feed the med bunker :D

LOL I thought KCH were good vs Brit player.

BTW PG is 6 mp per min. I think tommies might be 5 or 10 ??? Basically 2 upkeep per person

Tommies are around 7.5/min.

Any upkeep less than 8/min you won't even realise it's there. You only need 2-3 captured points to negate the upkeep on that squad. The only upkeep that's actually noticible and is a factor in a game is US and Soviet upkeep which is why there are specific upgrades to reduce it throughout the game. Nobody has every been forced to stop PG, gren or tommy spamming because their upkeep is too high.

How do Guards do against Rangers and Airborne?

irik wrote:
How do Guards do against Rangers and Airborne?

in comparison to guards, rangers and airborne are like conscripts  :)

neox88 wrote:

irik wrote:
How do Guards do against Rangers and Airborne?

in comparison to guards, rangers and airborne are like conscripts  :)

This made my day. Guards and Knight's Cross Holders for the win!

For elite squads in an anti-infantry role, IMO it's Rangers=Stormies>Falls=commandos=Guards>KCH>Navals>Airborne

I thought falls beat rangers ???. I know they beat commando if both stand still :P.

BTW what armor does commando have ???

Commandos have soldier armour.

Falls will beat rangers 1v1 if they are in cover and get their cloak bonus. For general usefulness though, Rangers are epic. Very tough, great charge ability, great nades and awesome SMGs. Extremely potent vet too.

OT but what does ranger vet do since you've mentioned it :D

No wonder my commandos keep dying to storm squads with MP44 on vet 2 :(

Ranger vet (12/24/44):
Vet 1 - 1.15 acc
            0.85 rec dmg
            -15s fireup recharge

Vet 2 - 0.75 cooldown
            0.75 rec supp
            0.9 rec acc
            -15s fireup recharge

Vet 3 - 1.2 acc
          1.5 dmg
          -15s fireup recharge

Thats some pretty good vet 8). Now if only they would survive long enough to reach vet 3 ;D. I got them to vet 2 :P

Pauly3 wrote:
what yauz says is true
KCH suck donkey balls, get volks they atleast feed the med bunker :D

i beg to differ, while guards will in most circumstances op kch, the only dounside to them imo is the squad size. i pown people with KCH