Things you don't want to see again!

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README
Read this first to avoid seeing just a wall of text :o

This post is devided into sections for a easy read and is about what you don't want to see of recycled units and abilities showing up in the OSTHEER!

The list is in the middle, feel free to add your own or discuss eachothers views.
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Story behind it!

I can't help but be scared that ostheer will dissapoint in that it won't be unique. When you removed vet for conscripts (which was boring tbh) and instead made them reeinforce easily people said they were bad lategame. Well it isn't hard too choose from the two other buildable squads. Strelky beeing my favorite with close combat MG and flagbearer charging into battle!

I read around in the forums today and see a post where a person claimes that the Soviets needs a HMG because two other factions got it. WELL THATS EXCACLY WHY THE SOVIETS SHOULD NOT!
If you want to play with HMG play wehr or US. The soviets have so many options other than HMG guns they do not need one at all!

So i'm still sitting here wondering, what if the ostheer will include nothing really new and just a mix of the same old units from the other factions.

Now hold on! I do not talk about apperence or stats but purpose and mechanics. A sniper is a sniper even if it got different types of VET bonuses at lvl 2. It is the same gameplay that we have allready mastered with Soviets, Americans and Wehrmacht.

Gameplay only!

This list will not care if a unit is historically correct or nice to look at. But how it affects our gameplay. If it is just a mix of the old factions why not just play them?

We want IS-2943 tank and LKASJDLKASJD infantry because they look cool. Well make a new thread if you want to talk about skins, look and history.

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The list!
Unit - Faction allready using the same concept

Mobile AT guns with crew - Am, Wehr, SU
^{Been there done that, i want something special for Ostheer}

Snipers - SU, Wehr, AM
^{Id rather see a close combat unit with a silenced gun that has totally different Micro and mechanics. Since the sniper is used and are almost identical for the factions that has it. Exception beeing VET system for Amri and wehr and the upgrade choice for SU.}

Standard engineer units - Am, Wehr, PE, SU.
^{All factions in the game uses infantry to build, i've seen concepts of a vehicle to build for Ostheer, as long as it does not have the ability to rebuild scraped tanks like the 'PE repair tiger', it's unique to them and should stay that way}

Radio triangulation and decryption ability - Brits
^{These abilities are so unique to the Commandos tech three it just can't be touched at all}

Resourse draining unit, Funkwagen - Pe
^{This units ability and strategic possibilities is awesome though little used it is there to be exploited, you got the choice. It's holy for PE.}

Locking down sectors like any of the other factions - All factions
^{Please come up with something unique and fresh! All factions except AMRI and WEHR which are identical have their own way. Please have a brilliant way that they secure sectors}

Normal HMG squad - Am, Wehr
^{Leave this to wehr for the axis, and Americans for the allies. One of the reasons to still play wehr and not any other faction is the MG42... The Am HMG got AP rounds, just make something new atleast.}

_{Adding more in future posts, feel free to discuss!}

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Last words

Somebody here said that the brits were boring because mechanics like flanking MG's was not as important as to the americans. If you want to flank MG's play the americans. I like the original british because they are something else after hours with the other factions.

Also the PE faction is just great. It includes so many cool new features and i hope the Ostheer will be just as unique if it would be in it's place. What i mean is to have unique aspects unlike all the other factions.


Eastern Front FTW!
^{My experience with the front so far! :)}

It feels like a true expantion to your normal COH experience not by adding thousand units without purpose or place and lots of new techthree abilities that in the end is just for show. If another expantion was made, EasternFront is what that would be like.

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 2:00 AM by Monos

Somebody lock this please.....

Reasons why:

We can't not add certain types of units, because firstly they are in the game already and we don't want to change a fine crafted concept.

The OH will not have a Sniper (at least not at first), nor a mobile AT gun. All factions lockdown sectors in one way or another whether you like it or not.

All Factions need Engie units cause you need to build and repair structures, anyway the Ost doesn't have Engies as you know them. either, they have a FAMO halftrack with a winch on the back as a constructer unit, but will also have Sturm Pioneers to build field improvements and storm of course.

The MG34 will be present because the Ost needs something early on to stem the Red Tide.

And all this pales in comparison to the fact THAT IF YOU READ THE OSTHEER UPDATES YOU WOULD HAVE ALL THIS BULLS**T ANSWERED ANYWAY. Only one we don't know yet entirely is the way the Ost will secure their sectors but I promise they will secure them one way or another

What i want and what will be are two totally different things.

PE does not have MGs, nor AT teams, Nor normal engineers, nor multiple types of infantry, they do not secure sectors with buildings or trucks but with a vehicle. I stated i wanted something not seen by the other factions, not no possibility to lock down sectors. Read the post before flaming the poster.

and NO. All factions do not need engie units. Sappers do not make buildings, they make only emplacements, ergo Brits do not have your normal Engineer. According to the Ostheer update the Ostheer will not have engineers neighter but instead a vehicle that construct buildings. A vehicle is not your standard engineer, and Sturm pioneers is more like the Rifle Section of the brittish than a standard engineer unit. Ergo, my wish for something different is granted.

Who cares about reality, people are allowed to dream. It might be in the wrong section on the forum but then it should be moved not locked.

PE got mortar vehicle, Brits got emplacements, the three other has normal mortar team, well i hope the ostheer has another unit to take over the purpose of the mortar.

Last but not least. I do not ask questions about the ostheer, i just tell what I prefer and i have read the updated and they are not relavant to this post.


Wishes that ain't granted, according to above poster:
No normal sniper unit, atleast not initially.
No normal AT crew unit.
No normal Engie unit.
New and unique way to lock down sectors.


Wishes not granted, according to above poster:
No special suppression squad, just the normal HMG with a different name i guess. I would have perfered something different.


If Relic can make unique factions, why shouldn't I be given the chance to hope that Eastern Front Devs will be able to do the same?

llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

They made the soviets great with:

- Command squad that gives global vet to units as well as gaining more abilities with vet.
- Observer team for recconosence, artillery and marking targets.
- Secured sectors that can reeinforce and be filled with infantry.
- Mobile heal bus.
- A building with upgrades for units and not vet upgrades.
- All buildings available from the start.
- Doctrine ability that replaces lost infantry squads at HQ! Alot like the Amris War Machine ability but for infantry. Much cooler. Makes troops feel even more expendable.
- Propaganda drop that imobilizes units and buffs them for a period of time that is free of charge but can make or break a fight.
- Cheeper reeinforce pr upgrade for conscripts (Unique!)
- Anti-Tank infantry with cloak for ambushes. (Like the PIAT but that weapon can't hit moving targets.
- Doctrine ability to lock down AT guns. (Wehr AT stealths, Amris got AP rounds, SUs got dig-in ability)
- Sniper ACE that levels up like a hero. Now his also new and ostheer must not get a unit with the same concept. Atleast not a sniper!  :)

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"List of Units that the mods will never ever in a million years add"

You made your list, why can't i make mine?
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Last edited September 15, 2011 at 1:12 AM by Monos

too long did not read 8)

Ostheer is quite unique buddy, I'm not flaming, but...

The PGs have multiple roles. Being engies is one of their roles, as they build their buildings and with Advanced Repair repair very well (better than regular ENgies IIRC).

They don't need multiple types of Infantry, technically Amis only have Rifles unless they, go certain doctrines in which case they got 1 more Infantry type per doctrine. If PE goes Lufft, they get 2 new types of infantry, a Early Engie with more squad members than a standard Engie squad (whether British or Ami or Wehr or even Soviet) and a Super Mega Infiltration Squad which can upgrade with an almighty super weapon that works very well at all ranges plus camo in cover. There your arguement is invalid, in that sense PE is not unique.

PE still secures, whether it be with a car, a giant ugly truck (which most people only deploy 3 of in a good game anyway), or a small building.

The fact that PE lacks an MG with suppression ability is countered by its  IHT, which IMO is a horrid idea, uniqueness is only good to a point. For example the Reg. Brits are a giant Turtle faction, which doesn't fit the games real concept, actual battle not deployment of a bunch of structures and sitting in your base with Arty pouring on the enemies base.

PE's mortar Vehicle isn't particularly unique just a mortar in a HT, while the Brit emplacement is crap. The Ostheer get a  le.IG 18 thats quite unique. The PE don't have an AT gun they have a Marder III which is much bigger a target than an AT gun, while having a possible lockdown to gain more range. Still just a giant AT gun, except the Marder 3 costs fuel and needs to be unlocked before use.

Sappers are engies, because they still build something, just cause its not building in the base, which the Brits technically lack, doesn't means its not a building. .

Too tired to write more now but Ill keep bitching tommorow anyway this post is useless because all the things you have pointed out are already included or are not unnecessary. The Ostheer is super-unique, and as a man who has seen them at work, I assure your entire post not needed.

QuoteThe PGs have multiple roles. Being engies is one of their roles, as they build their buildings and with Advanced Repair repair very well (better than regular ENgies IIRC).

PG's are the main infantry of PE ergo, not normal engi. Rifle Sections of the british can also build things. But they are not just a normal engi like the Wehr, Su and Amri one.

QuoteThey don't need multiple types of Infantry, technically Amis only have Rifles

And thats one of the reasons i love americans, my riflesquads. I mentioned in the oppening words that 1000 different units with the same purpose is useless and only confuses, dumbs down gameplay.

QuoteThere your arguement is invalid, in that sense PE is not unique.

I WROTE A WHOLE SECTION IN THE FIRST POST ABOUT THEY BEEING SUPER UNIQUE AND THAT I LOVE IT!

QuotePE still secures, whether it be with a car, a giant ugly truck (which most people only deploy 3 of in a good game anyway), or a small building.

Yeah but i don't know how Ostheer secures.. If it's a normal observation post i'll be dissapointed. I never said anything about them not beeing able to secure.

QuoteFor example the Reg. Brits are a giant Turtle faction, which doesn't fit the games real concept, actual battle not deployment of a bunch of structures and sitting in your base with Arty pouring on the enemies base.

This is mostly for n00b games and any game not a 1vs1. Most pro brits do almost not build emplacements. I like the brits, you hate them. Well you got the Reward faction, but i like the normal brits more.

I've also seem bunkerspam in high lvl games vCOH with wehr. Since the brits do not have any sort of defence for their trucks which is placed in the middle of the combat zone they need emplacements.

QuoteThe fact that PE lacks an MG with suppression ability is countered by its  IHT, which IMO is a horrid idea

I do not agree.

QuotePE's mortar Vehicle isn't particularly unique just a mortar in a HT, while the Brit emplacement is crap.

PE's mortar is fast moving and got incindiary and mixed with ammo truck you can use the ability alot, the mortar of the brits is stationary (and not crap)

QuoteThe Ostheer get a  le.IG 18 thats quite unique.

Whatever that is. I hope your right  :)

QuoteThe PE don't have an AT gun they have a Marder III which is much bigger a target than an AT gun

Still not the same as the crewed AT guns.. The King Tiger is also pr definition also a big AT gun with weak anti-infantry possibilities.
It's a vehicle, that makes it unique. You also got the AT halftrack.
Marder also got Thread Breaker which imobilizes a unit. Well cool. The Wehr PAK is also unique... It can ambush!

QuoteSappers are engies, because they still build something, just cause its not building in the base, which the Brits technically lack, doesn't means its not a building. .

As much as riflemen are, since they can build MG nests which is technically a building also.
They can also not be upgraded with flamer but PIATs or EE. Which means they are not like the Amri engineer.

Btw, Pioneers can salvage wrecks.. That ability is also awesome and unique but the inginery didn't seem so special and the stormpios you talked about sounded abit much like the Sturm Inginery  ;D

But my point stands clear, they got a vehicle for base building.. Thats awesome and unique. So my wish for them to not have a normal Engineer squad is reality. If they don't change it with a patch.

QuoteThe Ostheer is super-unique, and as a man who has seen them at work, I assure your entire post not needed.

As long as their MG ain't just like the MG42 but atleast has a new ability it'll probably be perfect just like i hope it will. But i haven't seen them in action, i have just read about bloodlust, which was awesome for a new vet system.

I've also seen the modernisation thing. But it seemed just too much like the soviet upgrade system. So i got worried that we might see the soviets all over again. That and some other things made me make this thread. Mostly to see if people want uniqueness as much as i do.




We can agree that we disagree about things.

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 1:57 AM by Monos

lock this....just lock this

It's all a big flame war over somethings that are rather silly...I Third the recommendation to lock this.

QuotePaK 36
Role: Lighty Anti-Tank
Weapons: PAK 36 3.75cm + 2x Luger Pistole 08 (4 men in total)?
Abilities: Camouflage?
Upgrade: None.
Modernisation: Unlocks Pak 40 to replace the Pak 36.
Summary: ?

The Wehr has this unit, ergo i hope it won't be in the final product. Why play wehr when their cool AT gun is not unique.

And i'll just lock it myself. My post ain't welcome here. So I'll just crab back into the hole i came from and feel sorry for myself and the brittish who got the second coolest doctrine in the game after Scorched earth.

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 2:10 AM by Monos

@Monos
I think you are confusing some units, Wehr uses a PaK 38, OH will use a PaK 36, you can google it, both are completely different units, and after modernization will have a PaK 40 which is also different than the other two.

Don't know what to say about this post, I'm spechless. You are thinking too much about it. Ostheer is already unique but it need to share some traits with the other factions.

Not confusing any units :) and this is just something i was thinking about one day and i started to think about new concepts and therefore i thought about those concepts i didn't want.

An AT gun with camuflage is still an AT gun with camuflage. Nomatter what the name or skin looks like. It uses the same sort of gameplay.  :-\ Though in the list it's a ? behind the ability.

Atleast it could get a new ability, beeing able to be dragged around the map with the Builder Vehicle trus making the infantry sit on top of it's back and the crane drag it for fast deployment instead of camuflage.

Or maby only the Pak 40 since the little one could almost have more speed due to it's mini-size. The gun is quite big so they could drag the Pak 40 around real slow and that could be it's weakness, then you can use your builder vehicle to place it in possition since it's a beast of a gun. The balancers can take care of the rest.

TRY TO SEE IT IN YOUR HEAD HOW IT WOULD LOOK LIKE.

This ability would be unique and if done right look awesome and i'm sure they drove around with those guns at some point, they did not push them from berlin and then you could remove the camuflage.

Main reason for not wanting AT guns is that i was afraid it would just be another version of the old one.. And i might have been right if this cammo thing goes through. Thats the only reason the PAK38 is awesome.. Cammo  :-*


Pak 40
http://www.google.no/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Pak40_parola_1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pak40_parola_1.jpg&h=521&w=1200&sz=408&tbnid=4pdEWOY-mp7bbM:&tbnh=55&tbnw=127&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpak%2B40%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=pak+40&docid=XroAlMeYrEw0-M&hl=no&sa=X&ei=UelxTv9tj_X6BtLkuZUJ&ved=0CC8Q9QEwAg&dur=103

Pak 36
http://www.google.no/imgres?imgurl=http://www.lovettartillery.com/pics/GER_PAK_36_3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.lovettartillery.com/3,7cm_Panzer_Abwehr_Kanone_PAK_1936.html&h=551&w=800&sz=172&tbnid=-ESZQ3lT75T2wM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=131&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dpak%2B36%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=pak+36&docid=_RsQdjLejrdQBM&hl=no&sa=X&ei=BepxTsXgK4GN-wa4xszDCQ&ved=0CEsQ9QEwBg&dur=204

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 12:17 PM by Monos

Dude, if the topic was locked, IT WAS LOCKED, don't open it again.  >:(

@Monos
Stop trolling, please!

Monos wrote:An AT gun with camuflage is still an AT gun with camuflage. Nomatter what the name or skin looks like. It uses the same sort of gameplay.  :-\ Though in the list it's a ? behind the ability.

And following the way you see these things soviets' ZiS-2 is like US 57mm atg but without AP rounds. Seriously dude, what do you expect from a "mini-sized" atg? That it could fly? It obviously needs camo. Although don't remember if it will have a panzergranate shot right off the bat, after veterancy or not at all.

Monos wrote:Atleast it could get a new ability, beeing able to be dragged around the map with the Builder Vehicle trus making the infantry sit on top of it's back and the crane drag it for fast deployment instead of camuflage.

This is the problems of suggesting just for the sake of it. There are no bugged animations (currently) to "drag" stuff on HTs otherwise any other mod would likely implement this.

QuoteMain reason for not wanting AT guns is that i was afraid it would just be another version of the old one.. And i might have been right if this cammo thing goes through. Thats the only reason the PAK38 is awesome.. Cammo  :-*

Why be so nit picky dude? ::)