Char b1 Reward unit

A French tank, are you taking the p*ss?

No i'm serious theirs a fairly good case to include this! 

....right go on then

After the fall of France in 1940 the Wehrmacht acquired a large number of captured French vehicles including several already included in Coh.  Apart from the Hotchkiss light tank and those converted into Geschutzwagen's the Germans captured a number of SOMUA S35's and around 160 Char B1 tanks. 

The Hotchkiss is kind of rubbish why do we want more French tanks?

Well, for one thing the Char b1 is a lot more heavily armed and armoured than the Hotchkiss and proved a tough challenge for early war German Panzer's.  On top of this 60 of the Char b1's were converted into Flammwagen PzKpfw B-2(f) with the 75mm hull mounted gun replaced with a flame thrower. 

Ok a Flame thrower tank that could be interesting, where were they used?

Well The 223rd Panzerkompanie took 12 to the Crimea in the summer of 1942 and The 7th SS Prinz Eugen also used some in the Balkans.  On top of this Kampfgruppe von Tettau used them to help defend against the British during Operation Market Garden.  So they saw use on both fronts of the war right through the war. 

As such i thought it could be used as a reward for any of the 3 German factions, especially considering the PE WH are in need of an extra reward unit to match the number available to the allies. 

Thoughts ?

Last edited September 12, 2011 at 9:54 AM by One-eye

Where would it go ???. Only spot is Ostheer. And they weren't used that much. But they look cool :D

I've always been a man of the weird and plain interesting, in my eyes this would be a lovely unit as a replacement for the Brummbar, similar in function, however being slower and having slightly more armor.

As for the Flamm version i doubt that, because as many of us have been told before animating and creating the Flame Tanks flame is quite a job, though we should keep our hopes up, as the were able to make a WASP Bren Carrier in NHC and some other mods, as well as Dmz talking about building a Flamm-Hetzer.

EDIT: However there is a Reward Unit Suggestion Thread which I believe this topic should be redirected to.

Last edited September 12, 2011 at 1:05 AM by neosdark

There is a unit suggestion Thread for this. Pls post there again.

There is a offmap battle group for the Ostheer where foreign tanks can be called in  ;)

I think there will be quite a surprise. At least 3 different tanks i think

Killar wrote:
There is a unit suggestion Thread for this. Pls post there again.

There is a offmap battle group for the Ostheer where foreign tanks can be called in  ;)

I think there will be quite a surprise. At least 3 different tanks i think

Ostheer Foreign Groop shoold be as non German as possible. I dont want to see wehrmacht soldiers in captured equipment, I want to see tanks made in Central Europe with soldiers from Central Europe in them.

Weren´t captured equipment used by german allies too alongside german equipment?

Only italy used mostly own tanks (but it don´t think at the eastern front). All other allies of germany used mostly either captured soviet equipment or german tanks (sczech tanks too).

I think Paciat wants it to be unique, not historically accurate :P. I wouldn't even know any foreign tanks so whatever the devs put is fine for me ;D

Can be unique of course. T38, a french tank (Somua would be my favourite) and a italian tank (Semovente) would be awesome  ;D and aren´t ingame yet.

I'd like to see some Italian tanks too :D :D

Fishhunterx wrote:
I think Paciat wants it to be unique, not historically accurate :P.

Yep, I want Italian infantry and tanks with Italian speech. There also is a Czech version of COH but I dont know if the speach was also translated (or wasit only a text translation).

french speech could be an option too. There were french soldiers fighting along the germans against the soviet union too.

Ahh sorry i should point i didn't actually specifically want this for the Ostheer, rather its for any of the German factions that's why its not in the unit suggestion thread.  i've edited the original post just to add that point in. 

Also in terms of what it could replace i was wondering about it being a reward for the Stuh 42 in the Blitz doctrine. 

A Char B would be an interesting addition to the CoH TO&E but can it be properly modeled and animated?

If so I think an M3 Lee or Grant  be a nice addition to to Soviet Line-up as reward unit for SU76. Not nearly as OP as the M4a3 w/ T2 AP Shells.... For those who do not understand the CharB Lee and Grant all have a Sponson or hull mounted Cannon and a Secondary turret mounted cannon.

I would like to see this tank implemented into COH also, but it may be rather awkward to animate?

Though it would make a fine addition to the German arsenal, I wouldn't mind my Stormtroopers storming the Russian's with this tank at their side ;D

I believe it could be animated in the same manner as the Churchill Croc.  Although, i'm aware that's not the best animated unit ever created the basic principle would be the same.

My only issue is the question of where would it go? It doesn't fit in the Ostheer Foreign because it was not an axis tank and the soviets didn't really use these. I suppose it could be implemented in the RMC SOMEHOW but I'm skeptical of even that.

Other than misplacement, decent suggestion.

One-eye wrote:
Ahh sorry i should point i didn't actually specifically want this for the Ostheer, rather its for any of the German factions that's why its not in the unit suggestion thread.  i've edited the original post just to add that point in. 

Also in terms of what it could replace i was wondering about it being a reward for the Stuh 42 in the Blitz doctrine.

+1, blitz doctrine would be perfect place if you give the char a flame turret. it will still have the same job description as the stuh42, can take down emplacements and deal with infantry blobbing. i vote bring this in the future, but not now. i want ostheer first

It's a FRENCH tanks as in ALLIED... ::)

Hotchkiss and GWagon are French tanks. Germany captured more than soil you know :D.

I agree though, the only faction that has a chance to see this unit is RMC but even that's a long shot.

Why can't we replace the Brummbar with this Lovely beast Denis?

Compared to the Brummbar the Char B has a smaller gun (75mm gun similar to the Sherman, in caliber not cannon type) and quicker reload time, also being slower, but slightly more well armored, however we could give it a Flamethrower as part of its Veterancy, at first disabling the Main gun and when it reaches ACE it gets the Main gun and a Flamethrower at the same time

neosdark wrote:
Why can't we replace the Brummbar with this Lovely beast Denis?

Compared to the Brummbar the Char B has a smaller gun (75mm gun similar to the Sherman, in caliber not cannon type) and quicker reload time, also being slower, but slightly more well armored, however we could give it a Flamethrower as part of its Veterancy, at first disabling the Main gun and when it reaches ACE it gets the Main gun and a Flamethrower at the same time

That sounds kinda cool ;D

germans with flame tank. yeessss.

Sorry to offend anyone

Im done

Last edited September 14, 2011 at 7:24 PM by vonklaus

not only ignorant but a historical noob too.

Quote
---> The Panzerkampfwagen B2 740(f) = B1bis in German hands
About 160 B2(f) tanks were used by the German army :
· Panzerkampfwagen B2(f)
· 10.5cm leFH18/3 auf Geschützwagen B2(f) (18 converted in 1942)
· Flammenwerferpanzer Renault B2 (f), retaining the turret-mounted 47mm, but with the hull-mounted 75mm replaced by a flamethrower (60 converted)
· Fahrschulpanzer B2(f) (turretless)

The first units equipped with B2 flame tanks were the 7th companies of Pz.Rgt.201 and 202, which were regrouped in 1941 in Pz.Abt.102 and engaged on the eastern front. Char B2(f) and B2(f) flame tanks were used during Barbarossa to reduce and destroy Russian fortifications in the summer of 1941. Pz.Abt.213 was later equipped with B2 tanks and stationed in French islands in the Channel.
Pz.Abt.206 was formed in November 1941 at Satory (near Paris), this battalion was used as a reserve unit for the 7.Armee. Wedged in Cherbourg, this unit was destroyed there. Its composition in beginning 1944 included 2 companies of 10 Hotchkiss H39 and 4 Somua S35s (in each company) and one "Stab Kompanie" of 3 Renault B2, 3 Renault B2 flamethrower, 2 Somua S35 and 2 Renault R35. Many such small units were formed with French booty/converted tanks like the Pz.Abt.100 committed to 91.ID in Normandy in 1944 (1 Somua S35, 8 Hotchkiss H39, 14 Renault R35, 1 Flammenwerferpanzer Renault B2, 1 PzIII and 5 FT17c) and the 21. Pz.D. included many French tanks.
Pz.Abt.223 was formed (attached to 22.PzD) with Char B2 flame tanks and was engaged in battles near Sevastopol in 1942. This unit was then expanded to include 2 panzer companies and command elements with a second company composed of 5 B2 and 12 B2 (Fl = flamethrower).
Different other units were also equipped with B2(f) tanks : Pz.Abt.224 in the Netherlands (engaged in Arnhem and Oosterbeek in 1944), two companies of the Pz.Rgt.100 in France and one company of 17 B2 from SS Pz.Abt.7 (SS 'Prinz Eugen' division) in the Balkans. In February 1945, 40 B2(f) tanks were still in service in the German army. Late war B2(f) had sometimes a kind of Zimmerit/concrete on their armor, at least on the turret. The B2(f) Flammpanzer could fire about 200x 2-3 seconds "napalm" shots. The French troops reused several B1bis captured in France, especially against German pockets on the western coast.

Hungarians and Romanians used mainly german tanks because their own were crap.

vonklaus wrote:
THIS IS ONE OF THE WORST IDEAS EVER SUGGESTED!!!!!!!

There are atleast 50 more diffrent vehicles that would be more historically accurate than a tank that is slow and doubtfully even used on easternfront. The Hungargians had there own tanks and assualt guns as well as the Italians. Romania would be a good nation to use the pt-38, and the Finns shoulkd have Stugs which could be vetted or had some variation of stats because historically that was there main armored weapon and they used them more effectively than any other nation. If i SEE FRENCH TANKS ROLLING UP I WILL NEVER USE OSTEER FOREIGN BATTLE GROUP.

If I was a mod I would delete this thread not just lock it its such a bad idea. Id rather see the Maus.


Now for a French mod this tank would be perfect.

The maus will NEVER be included. read this for more info

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5672.0

brummbär replacement sounds kinda cool
:)

Pauly3 wrote:
brummbär replacement sounds kinda cool
:)

+1

vonklaus wrote:
THIS IS ONE OF THE WORST IDEAS EVER SUGGESTED!!!!!!!

There are atleast 50 more diffrent vehicles that would be more historically accurate than a tank that is slow and doubtfully even used on easternfront. The Hungargians had there own tanks and assualt guns as well as the Italians. Romania would be a good nation to use the pt-38, and the Finns shoulkd have Stugs which could be vetted or had some variation of stats because historically that was there main armored weapon and they used them more effectively than any other nation. If i SEE FRENCH TANKS ROLLING UP I WILL NEVER USE OSTEER FOREIGN BATTLE GROUP.

If I was a mod I would delete this thread not just lock it its such a bad idea. Id rather see the Maus.


Now for a French mod this tank would be perfect.

If i were a mod i would ban you because your either 6 years old or have a mental age of 6. 

I really can't tell if your trolling or just incredibly stupid.

You obviously haven't even read the original post properly so i'm going to go with stupid.

Ok back on topic, so far we have:

1.  Replacement for the Stuh 42 in the Blitz doctrine for Wehrmacht.

2.  Replacement for the Brummbar for the Ostheer. 

Any one have any idea if this could be slotted in the Panzer Elite anywhere?  As i mentioned before it was used in Market Garden but i'm kind of drawing a blank on what it could be a reward for.

It could be added to the OH battlegroup :P. We could look to add it there later if there's a positive reaction (coughLordRommelcough, coughBurroDiablocough)... does someone has some medicine for my cough ;D.

well... I don't understand this well... but you want to make a replacement of any of the useful units OH or WH has with this french crap? lol, it's all I have to say in this matter. Why wouldn't we give OH captured T-34? Or KV-1? Those tanks were at least used on EF and we are 100% sure ^^
and captured tank makes total difference in faction. And it requires also model and skin. And animation. And I guess devs have a lot of other stuff to do than this... thing.

cephalos wrote:
well... I don't understand this well... but you want to make a replacement of any of the useful units OH or WH has with this french crap? lol, it's all I have to say in this matter. Why wouldn't we give OH captured T-34? Or KV-1? Those tanks were at least used on EF and we are 100% sure ^^
and captured tank makes total difference in faction. And it requires also model and skin. And animation. And I guess devs have a lot of other stuff to do than this... thing.

I would prefer something different rather than a captured tank.

Ah, btw that's why I think it would be on the OH foreign support. Don't like as replacement unit for anything on wehr/pe/oh.

Last edited September 14, 2011 at 7:17 PM by blackbishop

cephalos wrote:
well... I don't understand this well... but you want to make a replacement of any of the useful units OH or WH has with this french crap? lol, it's all I have to say in this matter. Why wouldn't we give OH captured T-34? Or KV-1? Those tanks were at least used on EF and we are 100% sure ^^
and captured tank makes total difference in faction. And it requires also model and skin. And animation. And I guess devs have a lot of other stuff to do than this... thing.

Well a couple of points their really.

1.  French units are already in the game e.g Hotchkiss so i really don't see why this is any different.

2.  This is a computer game not real life, how good or bad the unit is depends entirely on the stats the developers give it. 

3.  We wouldn't give the Ostheer captured Russians tanks because its pretty poor design philosophy just to give an identical unit with a new skin to a different faction. 

4.  We "100%" know it was used on both fronts during the war and this thread contains a detailed list of when and where. 

Is this possible to animate two cannons in one tank?

I like idea to give EF this tank but i don't know where put it  ???. It requires more thinking :).

Random French man: Hé, pourquoi vous faire plaisir de mon sexy réservoirs? (Hey why you make fun of my sexy tanks ;D ;D)

It sounds nice. But I could ONLY see it in foreign battle group, maybe reward unit for Brummbar. Replacing the StuH 42 just seems, idk, wrong :(. I dont know if this has been answered but was this French tank even used on the eastern front? If not then.. IDK, seems strange :P

Fishhunterx wrote:
Random French man: Hé, pourquoi vous faire plaisir de mon sexy réservoirs? (Hey why you make fun of my sexy tanks ;D ;D)

It sounds nice. But I could ONLY see it in foreign battle group, maybe reward unit for Brummbar. Replacing the StuH 42 just seems, idk, wrong :(. I dont know if this has been answered but was this French tank even used on the eastern front? If not then.. IDK, seems strange :P

If you have a look in my first post and in the post by Killar on the second page it lists where is saw action on the Eastern Front.  :)

One-eye wrote:

Fishhunterx wrote:
Random French man: Hé, pourquoi vous faire plaisir de mon sexy réservoirs? (Hey why you make fun of my sexy tanks ;D ;D)

It sounds nice. But I could ONLY see it in foreign battle group, maybe reward unit for Brummbar. Replacing the StuH 42 just seems, idk, wrong :(. I dont know if this has been answered but was this French tank even used on the eastern front? If not then.. IDK, seems strange :P

If you have a look in my first post and in the post by Killar on the second page it lists where is saw action on the Eastern Front.  :)

Whoopsie :-[. My bad :P

Also Fish, réservoirs is like a water tank, the tank you are thinking about is called a Blindee IIRC (please excuse the lack of accents my keyboard is American and I don't want to go on Wikipedia just to find the proper accents)

cephalos wrote:
well... I don't understand this well... but you want to make a replacement of any of the useful units OH or WH has with this french crap? lol, it's all I have to say in this matter. Why wouldn't we give OH captured T-34? Or KV-1? Those tanks were at least used on EF and we are 100% sure ^^
and captured tank makes total difference in faction. And it requires also model and skin. And animation. And I guess devs have a lot of other stuff to do than this... thing.

french equipment wasnt crap...just the people who worked them  ;D (no offense to any frenchmen on the forums)

on topic: im pretty sure this is just another decent idea thrown into the garbage. i still want to find a suggested unit that makes the cut

Dunno Trollgore, sounds like the higher ups have taken the idea in stride, you need just look a few posts back and you will see Balancers Translators and Bishop being interested in this unit's deployment

neosdark wrote:
Dunno Trollgore, sounds like the higher ups have taken the idea in stride, you need just look a few posts back and you will see Balancers Translators and Bishop being interested in this unit's deployment

its sort of like my su100 idea, they dont know where to place it. i can live without this unit but still... it is an interesting concept

Actually it seems there is a perfect place it, as described by myself and some other people, Rewards for either the Ost Brummbar, or the Wehr StuH42, or inclusion into the Foreign Battlegroup, tons of room and time to add them. if it is deemed interesting enough to warrant inclusion.

its a wait and see process :P

Personally I think it should replace the Stuh 42, just possibly add more of a population cost to it to balance out getting some decent armour out quickly.

I do like the idea of the Veterancy of the tank to.

neosdark wrote:
Also Fish, réservoirs is like a water tank, the tank you are thinking about is called a Blindee IIRC

Damn, I was hoping no one would notice I got the word tank wrong ;D ;D I didn't feel like changing it though :P

---

Post Merge: [time]1316127845[/time]

---

I've given this some thought (while on the train) and I believe this should not be in the Foreign battlegroup. It just seems weird :P. When you activate FBG you expect tanks from the east euro countries, not a frenchie tank :(. Yes, it did serve on the east front but thats like saying the Soviets should get a Matilda to replace the T-34 b/c they had it at one time (IDK if I got name correct).

I think this should ONLY be a reward for the Brummbar :-X. To replace the StuH with......this...... is just wrong to me :(. And if it gets its flamer with vet that makes it an even worse replacement for the StuH in its initial state unless you intend on giving this thing low muzzle velocity and HE rounds :P.

Im not trying to insult this idea, I'm just saying it should not be present in FBG OR as a StuH Wher replacement :).

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 11:04 PM by Fishhunterx

If you guys are still lookin for votes on the Char I vote in favor of it

Well, I've always been a fan of French WW2/inter-war tanks like the S35 and the Char B1. 211. Panzerabteilung fought with S35's against the Soviets in Finland, and 223. Panzerkompanie fought around the Crimea with Char B1's IIRC.

I wouldn't be against including these tanks in the future, but they definitely won't see the initial release.

Damn lack of animators >:(

I would also like to see the B1 into the game. Its cool. Look like a warhammer tank :>

I would expect nothing less from BurroDiablo >:D. Now my "secret" agenda is completed :P.

Awesome, one day soon, we shall have more than just a worthless H 35, we shall have a Char B1