[1.501] Main Guns nerfed or Armor buffed?

OK,this time i used search and i couldn't find any thread about this issue in 1.501.

I was playing a game vs a hard cpu, wehr against russians. they deployed a T70 light tank,i had no fuel,so i got a ostwind to blast him to oblivion. but surprise, it got his ass handed to him! the ostwind sometimes didn't even penetrate the T70 rear armor?! till now light tanks like M8 were no big deal for a ostwind. better yet,the T70 had a good chance of penetrating the front armor of ostwind,which is stupid since it's a Panzer IV chassis.

Later that day i tried US-Army vs wehr. they got StuG,so i clled in a pershing. But the StuGs front armor reflected some of the pershings rounds! i didn't even know that the pershings main gun could be stopped by anything lighter than a tiger or at least panther??

maybe i just oversaw it in earlyer games, but it surprised me pretty much

Lt.Gottlieb wrote:I was playing a game vs a hard cpu

Balance discussions are considerate ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY in "HumanPlayer vs HumanPlayer (1v1 - 2v2)" matchs.

Skirmishes are not argument of balance discussions.

fine, but i don't think that the penetration-values change during Multiplayer/oneplayer, or do they? i don't know

T-70(light tank) will lose vs an Ostwind("medium" tank/Pz. IV variant), seems ok to me.

Last edited September 5, 2011 at 3:16 PM by blackbishop

All the medium and heavy tanks have penatration stat of their armor, all of them have a small chance to "reflect" the shot mostly in the front.

blackbishop wrote:
T-70(light tank) will lose vs an Ostwind("medium" tank/Pz. IV variant), seems ok to me.

No, it doesn't.  The guy's story is credible; Ostwind will lose to T70 for some reason.  I've had this happen to me too.

@Yauz
Time to dig in to the stats :P. Let's check T-70 vs Pz. IV armoured vehicles.

EDIT:

T-70 vs Ostwind -> same than Stuart vs Ostwind but deals -10 damage less than Stuart.

Ostwind vs T-70 -> same than Ostwind vs Stuart but have 0.85 acc instead of 1 like the Stuart.

Last edited September 5, 2011 at 6:02 PM by blackbishop

Lt.Gottlieb wrote:
penetrating the front armor of ostwind,which is stupid since it's a Panzer IV chassis.

Meybe those shots hit the lightly armored turret. ::)

Quote
Later that day i tried US-Army vs wehr. they got StuG,so i clled in a pershing. But the StuGs front armor reflected some of the pershings rounds! i didn't even know that the pershings main gun could be stopped by anything lighter than a tiger or at least panther??

StugIV armor is heavier than PZIV armor (same chassie, lower profile). Its similar  to churchills armor but has less hitpoints. Even PzIV has a slight chance to bounce Pershing shells off.
Get the tank depot gun upgrade (Yes it works on Shermans and the Pershing) and your trouble will be over.

@Paciat
ok thanks i'll try the main gun upgrade, that StuG is one nasty son of a gun ;)
so the t70-armor is simillar to the stuart? well that explains a lot^^
oh and one question, the description of the T90 says something about "fighting the german airforce" (at least it does in the german version), so is the T90 able to attack henschel in the game? i didn't had the chance to test it recently

It is able to fight aircrafts, the T-90 was a SPAAG prototype as a variant of the T-70.

Meine Übersetzung lügt nicht ;)

;D

Yes, robotnik fixed the target tables and now allied AA guns like the quad HT and the T-90 can kill planes :P.

@MaxiKing
ok danke,wenn du das sagst muss es ja stimmen ;)
PS: weisst du wie die technologiebäume vom ostheer im deutschen heissen werden? nach doktrin/strategie/kompanie/taktik/unterstützung ist ja so ziemlich alles verbraucht :D

Lads, do I have to remind you this is an english board :P.

haha sry bishop,your right^^

i asked him what the name for the OH-tech tree is gonne be in german,since strategy,company,tactic etc is already used^^

No keep speaking German, helps me learn  ;D

Was in Germany for 4 months last year, don't want to lose my edge.

Lt.Gottlieb wrote:
haha sry bishop,your right^^

i asked him what the name for the OH-tech tree is gonne be in german,since strategy,company,tactic etc is already used^^

"Army X Troops" in English. Eg. "Army Support Troops".

I'm assuming the German translation will use something similar.

Rizz wrote:

Lt.Gottlieb wrote:
haha sry bishop,your right^^

i asked him what the name for the OH-tech tree is gonne be in german,since strategy,company,tactic etc is already used^^

"Army X Troops" in English. Eg. "Army Support Troops".

I'm assuming the German translation will use something similar.

The German translation will use the following, if Lord Rommel, the Ostheers godfather, won't disagree:

Armee-Unterstützungstruppen

• Luftwaffe-Unterstützung


• Verbündeten-Unterstützung

Armee-Elitetruppen

• Sturmabteilung


• Eliteabteilung

Armee-Festungstruppen

• Verbesserte Verteidigung


• Verbesserte Versorgung

Anyway, back to topic.

ok thanks,was wondering all the time^^

ok since the topic was strong armor and weak mainguns,what is the deal with sherman jumbo? in my opinion it's just an american version of the churchill,strong armor but weak gun. i think people would rather call in the pershing since it's main gun rocks

Sherman jumbo replaces the calliope, not the pershing, and goes well alongside with it. giving it the main gun upgrade makes it around equal in strength to a panther

man i must stop forgetting the main gun upgrade :D

The jumbo is available ?earlier and also costs less, not to mention (and this is from playing Europe in Ruins mod which uses Panther_Skirted armor on its Jumbo) the fact that some of the axis stat tables are wicked messed up against it (again, assuming from EiR, where 88s had a lower penetration rating vs its rear armor then a Panzer 4 or Ostwind).

the jumbo in this game has 1100 health and uses churchill armor

Desert_Fox wrote:

Lt.Gottlieb wrote:I was playing a game vs a hard cpu

Balance discussions are considerate ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY in "HumanPlayer vs HumanPlayer (1v1 - 2v2)" matchs.

Skirmishes are not argument of balance discussions.

If unit performance is imbalanced in CPU play. It is imbalanced in PvP play. The converse is not necessarily true. Please desist from fanboy/balancer crap.

Analysis of model stats and knowledge of the CoH combat engine is the best way to evaluate models in the game, (short of playinf the units that is). Comparison of historical specs is very deceptive when applied to game situations. Example: PE H35/H39 performs vld ery well as a light/medium tank in the game. Historically the ATV had a one man turret with a short barreled 37 mm cannon. It was operated by the tank commander and used a "belt fed" style loading system. A long barreled 37mm or "50mm"  ::) cannon would not fit in the turret. In the game using an understanding of the stats and engine an H35 can frequently take out a T34. A feat that would be incredible historically.

ai gets modifieres for the units. for example easy AI units are weaker than the ones of a human player.