T70 / T90

So the T70 is marked as being good vs light vehicles, the T90 as being good vs light vehicles and infantry. Yet the T90 is cheaper (marginally).

I seem to remember the T90 was widely derided as useless in previous iterations of EF - how do the two stack up in 1.5?

As a matter of fact, is there anywhere a guide that lists out the stats for each unit and vehicle in 1.5 (or at least a summary of all the main stats)?

T90 has very similar weapon stats to the PE AC. In fact, it's basically the same weapon. The T70 is better vs vehicles but worse against infantry. The T90 has actually been rather OP for most of EF's history and has been one of the hardest units to balance. It's had its gun redesigned many times.

In my opinion the T90 is too weak now, but I could be wrong.

That's pretty interesting stuff. I've played (in previous versions) with the T90 a lot, but seem to recall it getting a lot of negative comments on the forums compared with the T70.

I look forward to putting both through their paces in 1.5!

Does anyone know if either tank was changed in 1.5? I prefer the T70 anywho :P b/c it can defend against both armor and infantry. T90 can only defend against infantry but better.

Fishhunterx wrote:
Does anyone know if either tank was changed in 1.5? I prefer the T70 anywho :P b/c it can defend against both armor and infantry. T90 can only defend against infantry but better.

T-90 is godlike against light vehicles like the AC and Puma, not sure if it does so greatly against a Marder while flanking but can definitely win against Pumas.

I never knew that :P. I guess the obvious choice then is T90 ;D

Fishhunterx wrote:
I never knew that :P. I guess the obvious choice then is T90 ;D

Not quite. The T-70 can burst through the Marder and can certainly circle stugs with a greater chance of winning rather than a T-90

No way a T-90 can take down a Puma. You must be thinking of the T-70.

Perhaps @Cranialwizard meant to say "unupgunned Puma" aka sdkfz 234.

Also I'm glad to hear T-90 doesn't kill a Puma in 1.5 because in 1.4 it would.

blackbishop wrote:
Perhaps @Cranialwizard meant to say "unupgunned Puma" aka sdkfz 234.

Also I'm glad to hear T-90 doesn't kill a Puma in 1.5 because in 1.4 it would.

T-90 still kills a Un-Upgunned Puma in a match up. Puma does damage but the better hull is more resilient than the Puma's armor is to the T-90s outfit. With a couple rear-armor shots the Puma can gain the upperhand but on the same token if it takes some rear-armor hits it will go down even faster.

Dot.Shadow wrote:
No way a T-90 can take down a Puma. You must be thinking of the T-70.

Don't question me. Try it yourself :P

Of course it will kill an "Un-upgunned Puma" you said it always won against Pumas so I tweak it a little bit and now Puma has more chances to win against the T90.

Because for me:
Un-upgunned Puma = Sdkfz. 234/1, uses 20mm gun
Puma = Upgunned variant, Sdkfz. 234/2

I tested the T-90 vs Pumas in 1.40 and I didn't need to shot Pumas in the rear to have better chances to kill them, at the front will suffice. I never tested agains sdkfz. 234 because that wasn't mentioned at all.

But that is just a misunderstand on both parts and if the T-90 should get a nerf against sdkfz. 234 I think we are at good time to discuss it.

@Dot.Shadow
I wouldn't say it's weaker :P. IMO it still shreds infantry pretty well.

Just did a pure test game, and it damn well beat the puma flat down.

I must say I am surprised and impressed.

So if the T90 rocks, why pay more for a T70 and lose the anti-infantry into the bargain? Just trying to see what arguments there are for going the T70 route if the T90 takes out everything up to a Stug IV?

Trying to figure my Soviet strategies and working each unit into a game plan so I know if my enemy does X I should do Y... but what would X be to get me to build a T70?

T70 is better against units in buildings and has a better chance of gibbing full squads (usually weapon crews or PGs) than the T90 which is more of a steady, easy to predict flow of damage. It's actually not intended that the T90 is so effective vs light armour and it will probably be toned down at some point. T70 also has a detection radius for stealth unit hunting and is the only unit apart from the CS in the Soviet faction to have this. T70 can actually damage heavy tanks too. I played a game the other day where my 2 T70s and 2 SU-85s beat 2 Panthers and a small PG blob multiple times by microing.

Well T70's can beat StuG's better by circling them than T90 I think. They're like Stuarts. And I've never tried it but T70's might be able to circle Marders

So in future I can expect the T90 to become more like a quad .50 with the armour of a Stuart light tank, but for now that's not the case. For now, they both sound good the way you describe them.

Didn't know about the stealth detection radius thing... how wide is the radius for the T70 and the Command Squad? Does it spot units within full LoS, only those right next to it, or some variant between the two?

Last edited August 30, 2011 at 1:24 PM by AllRoundGoodEgg

maybe a way to even out the t90 is to give it the stats of an american mg team, with damage modifiers and maybe even armour piercing rounds ability

worst idea ever man...it suppresses too faast and does awesome damage

Pauly3 wrote:
worst idea ever man...it suppresses too faast and does awesome damage

thats where damage modifier come in, and you can modify the suppression rate, t90 is supposed to be anti infantry tank, if your running infantry at it (unless you have shrecks) and expecting to win, your doing something wrong

If your going to modify the .30cal dmg to set it as T90 dmg you might as well give the T90 its own dmg set :-\. No need for redundancy :P

Does the T70 fire fast? To me, I see it as a better M8. Now that I know T90 can kill unupgraded Puma, I think T70 lost its purpose as an "M8." But it's my favorite stug counter.

irik wrote:
Does the T70 fire fast? To me, I see it as a better M8.

i think t70 fire faster than m8 yes and i think its better than m8 (even than t17/staghound)... t70 is the ulimate conter for all PE t1-t4 units till to the late game (especially in groups)... how its looking with (upgraded) puma i am not pretty sure since i dont build t70/90 vs wehr... t70 can also used perfectly as a armored recon unit^^ a perfect allrounder i would say :)

T90 isn't supposed to do that much dmg to the Puma if I recall. So dont get used to it mowing down everything :P. Use T70 as an M8 and get used to it b4 it changes :)

Fishhunterx wrote:
T90 isn't supposed to do that much dmg to the Puma if I recall.

T90> ACs, Pumas.

Stugs, ATG, ATHT,> T90

Is T90 anti aircraft or infantry support tank? And why exactly would the T70 be better than the T90? It seems like T90 is better. I'm still not convinced T70 has a use.

irik wrote:
Is T90 anti aircraft or infantry support tank? And why exactly would the T70 be better than the T90? It seems like T90 is better. I'm still not convinced T70 has a use.

T90 is better at engaging Infantry and can also engage Aircraft to a certain degree. T90 can also fight light vehicles such as Pumas, and normally will win against them.

T70s are much like M8s, only with a bit more armor. It can easily take on lighter armors like the Pumas and can counter ATHTs which the T90 is not good against. The T70 also has a much better faring chance against a Stug.

True, Human T70 will always kill a cpu stug.

I used 2 T70s and 2 SU85s to kill Rizz's Panther Battegroup and support units by using good micro. T70s do very suprising damage to the rear of tanks.

irik wrote:
True, Human T70 will always kill a cpu stug.

This has no measure upon balance or actual stats. That is simply a matter of micro.

Yes, but unless the player's a beginner, there's no way a cpu stug can kill their T70. What should I do if I make a stug and come across a T70 that circle strafes? I think backing it away and surprising it with at guns might work, but I think I'll just have a stug behind enough so it can't circle strafe both. But who's going to build a stug iv against soviets?

I thought Ostheer has StuG III ;D

They do, but no Heer player will build a Stug Iv against soviets. They tend to go for Panzer IV or Panther.

All things considered, and with proper micro, StuG can kill a T70 75% of the time.  However, StuGs are useless vs the T34 / KV series, and so are Panzer IVs.  The only feasible vehicles to buy when facing Russians is the Panther / Tiger / KT.  Anything else is investing free CP / XP for your opponent.

Why PV IV? They have rotating turrent and are okay with vet :P

Fishhunterx wrote:
Why PV IV? They have rotating turrent and are okay with vet :P

The P4 is a good all-around tank with the capability to engage both tanks like the T34 along with good splash damage against infantry, even more so than the ostwind.

Will the person that improves the ai improve the ai tank micro? It's as horrible as crap.

Cranialwizard wrote:

Fishhunterx wrote:
Why PV IV? They have rotating turrent and are okay with vet :P

The P4 is a good all-around tank with the capability to engage both tanks like the T34 along with good splash damage against infantry, even more so than the ostwind.

The reason I said P4 is because versus anything heavy duty such as the T34/85 or either KVs, it becomes useless.  Its not like versus the USA where P4 can handle anything they have in their Tank Depot.  You really need to buy a Panther purely for security's sake.  If you invested 80 FU in a P4 and then T34-85s comes knocking, you're fucked.

Last edited September 25, 2011 at 9:55 PM by Yauz

Unless you have 2 paks ^^

When you get up to the higher levels of play, PAKs are still good, but they aren't going to cut it.  They act more like an anti-tank tampon.  They will try to prevent you from bleeding too much manpower to tanks, but the fuckers will eventually have snipers and artillery on horn waiting to hunt your PAKs.

Yauz wrote:
The reason I said P4 is because versus anything heavy duty such as the T34/85 or either KVs, it becomes useless.  Its not like versus the USA where P4 can handle anything they have in their Tank Depot.  You really need to buy a Panther purely for security's sake.  If you invested 80 FU in a P4 and then T34-85s comes knocking, you're fucked.

Reason is t34 was OP vs P4.
Its always better to go straigt for a panther but if you dont have the ressources or need a tank instant ,P4 should deal with T34/76 and all below that.
However to go for P4 with full vet and skipping panther is always fail. Next comes t34/85 which laughs at your p4.

P4 in summary fits better in fighting US.

Vet 3 PV 4 really cant beat a T-34 1 on 1? Wows sviet armor is tough :P. Wait till Ostheer comes ;D. But doesn't Ostheer have weaker panzers ???. Wont soviets OP them?

Two Panzer IVs on Vet 2 can defeat IS 2, provided micro on the panzer ivs can be used to its best.

I think you got me wrong. panzerIV can deal with t34, but will get problems with 85mm cannon.

Wasting ressources to get vet on your p4 you should build a panther instead

irik wrote:
Two Panzer IVs on Vet 2 can defeat IS 2, provided micro on the panzer ivs can be used to its best.

heh? u played it vs comp? i dont think 2 pz4 even with vet3 and pro skilled flanking wont be a match for IS2 (unvetted)... i think that conter tanks with (only) tanks is not that good idea... at-gun is still the hard-conter vs tanks...

I did play vs comp. But how do 2 panthers do against an IS2?

2 panthers=smoking IS-2. Giving tat both are manuvering and trying to out flank each other ::)