I don't like Soviet Army...

I played this game, at start it looked good, but then playing it got very frustrating. Soviet got a lot of unuseful infantry units, and they always got killed easily by germans. And if you want to take mortars and antitanks, you must upgrade spending fuel and manpower. It is not fair, and the engeers are very slow to make MG nests...
And there are a lot of tanks, as the other armies have only 3-4 tanks.
I think is better removing some tipes of tanks, or putting some tanks in Propaganda doctrine, some in Armored Assualt, and some in Urban War doctrine.
I looked that in short-medium time games, soviets can't win, but in long times they can win (with the powerful tanks).
But the main problem is the Soviet CPU.
Soviet CPU isn't good and the units lots of times stuck in the bridges.
And I also tried playing a 3vs3, with 3 EXPERT SOVIET CPUS, and 3 GERMAN EASY CPUS, and the Germans won.
What is your opinion about my suggestions?  :)

In an effort to be civil, I won't answer what I think of your suggestions...

If you have issues with the AI, post in the AI thread. Your suggestions on Soviet design are... rejected...

GodlikeDennis wrote:
In an effort to be civil, I won't answer what I think of your suggestions...

If you have issues with the AI, post in the AI thread. Your suggestions on Soviet design are... rejected...

Dammit and i was in the middle of writing a long responding to the post  ;D

Last edited August 22, 2011 at 11:19 AM by Killar

GodlikeDennis wrote:
In an effort to be civil, I won't answer what I think of your suggestions...

If you have issues with the AI, post in the AI thread. Your suggestions on Soviet design are... rejected...

You should know that other armies have only 3-4 tanks. So why put 50 tanks in the Tank Depot?
The better is do tanks categories and put them in the 3 doctrines...
The Urban war can have light tanks, the Armored assault can have heavy tanks like KV-2, Is2. ecc...

Actually the entire depot is a combination of T3 and T4 equivalents for the other factions.

Light tankovy compared to Wehr:
T90 - Puma
T70 - Upgunned Puma
SU-85 - StuG IV

Heavy tankovy gives only the T-34s/KVs remember, so Wehr T4 actually provides 3 tanks whereas Soviet T4 only gives 1 plus an upgunned version (equivalent of upgunning Shermans).

The IS-2 is like the Panther Battlegroup of PE since it requires all previous research from all previous buildings.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Actually the entire depot is a combination of T3 and T4 equivalents for the other factions.

Light tankovy compared to Wehr:
T90 - Puma
T70 - Upgunned Puma
SU-85 - StuG IV

Heavy tankovy gives only the T-34s/KVs remember, so Wehr T4 actually provides 3 tanks whereas Soviet T4 only gives 1 plus an upgunned version (equivalent of upgunning Shermans).

The IS-2 is like the Panther Battlegroup of PE since it requires all previous research from all previous buildings.

in other words: Wehrmacht has more units that SU has.

@Dennis: +1

cl3v3r wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
In an effort to be civil, I won't answer what I think of your suggestions...

If you have issues with the AI, post in the AI thread. Your suggestions on Soviet design are... rejected...

You should know that other armies have only 3-4 tanks. So why put 50 tanks in the Tank Depot?
The better is do tanks categories and put them in the 3 doctrines...
The Urban war can have light tanks, the Armored assault can have heavy tanks like KV-2, Is2. ecc...

That's the design of the Soviet faction and no major changes will be done to them unless a unit is severely broken. If EF would make the Russian Tank Hall just like the other faction's tank depots, it would be boring. Soviets offer a big array of different strategies, choose your strategy and leave out all the other units you don't need for them.
The other way round, people would complain about Soviets having too few units.

I smell a troll thread.

Cranialwizard wrote:
I smell a troll thread.

maybe we smell red´s 2nd acc :D

but as dennis said
soviet t3 is like usa, wehr and pe´s t3 and t4
thats the reason nothing more and nothing less...

and soviets had also not 50 tanks  :o
and of which senless units you are talking about?
i couldnt say that we have a real senless unit in there... btw i cant realy belive that 3 expert soviets were beaten by 2 easy cpu´s... ok it depends also on the map. ai dosent work right on every map...

I read the word "Bridge" and "CPU" and "MG nest" and stopped reading.

evilSpike wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:
I smell a troll thread.

maybe we smell red´s 2nd acc :D

Could be. The argumentation is not to come to a conclusion but only complain.

cl3v3r wrote:
I played this game, at start it looked good, but then playing it got very frustrating. Soviet got a lot of unuseful infantry units, and they always got killed easily by germans.

That's kinda the point. Soviets have weak but plentiful infantry units of varying skills and abilities. Which units do you find 'unuseful'?

cl3v3r wrote:And if you want to take mortars and antitanks, you must upgrade spending fuel and manpower. It is not fair, and the engeers are very slow to make MG nests...

The Wehrmacht much also upgrade to construct these things. I don't know anybody else who has a problem with the MG nest build speed.

cl3v3r wrote:And there are a lot of tanks, as the other armies have only 3-4 tanks.

As Dennis already correctly pointed out, Soviet skip Tier 3 so all their Vehicles are consolidated into 1 buildings. They have no more vehicles than the Wehrmacht.

cl3v3r wrote:I think is better removing some tipes of tanks, or putting some tanks in Propaganda doctrine, some in Armored Assualt, and some in Urban War doctrine.

Uh, no. If you're going to complain about how weak the Soviets are, don't come up with suggestions that would make them even weaker.

cl3v3r wrote:I looked that in short-medium time games, soviets can't win, but in long times they can win (with the powerful tanks).

Soviets aren't supposed to steamroll their opponents, that would be highly unbalanced.

cl3v3r wrote:But the main problem is the Soviet CPU. Soviet CPU isn't good and the units lots of times stuck in the bridges.

That's not a problem with the AI, that's a problem with bridge maps.

cl3v3r wrote:And I also tried playing a 3vs3, with 3 EXPERT SOVIET CPUS, and 3 GERMAN EASY CPUS, and the Germans won.

You mean 2 Expert AI's? Otherwise that would have been a 7 player game. I might have to try this out because with your '50 Tanks' in the Tank Hall, I have a slight suspicion you may be exaggerating just a little.

cl3v3r wrote:What is your opinion about my suggestions?  :)

I have a higher opinion of the poo in my colon.

Soviets are different to all the other factions, you will get used to it. In fact there are many units being very imbalanced in the current version.

Guards, Sturmovies, Molotovs, Navals... but looks like you don't know how to play EF yet. I would say you should give it time and read some posts on the strategy section and watch some replays on the replay section to know better how to use soviets before start asking for a redesign.

Saying that this post is a troll, isn't good for listen players suggestions.
I'm making a general suggestion of Soviet Army.
Yeah, you are right, there are light vehicles, and heavy vehicles (I wronged in this suggestion).
But can you remove the Upgrade for take the vehicles?
At least remove the item for take Light Vehicles.
And also for taking mortars, and Antitanks.
But the real problem is the Soviet Cpu.
It sucks.
If you want I send you videos, of Expert Soviet Cpu losing vs Easy - Normal Wermacht Cpu.

Last edited August 22, 2011 at 4:06 PM by cl3v3r

So, do you want to get mortars/tank hunters, at guns/sniper teams and tanks right off the bat ????

Do you realize soviet buildings are very cheap?

We do not take balance advices based on Skirmishes, and how could be possible than 1 Soviet CPU lose agains a Wehr one and you noticed? it would be a 2vs2(or 1vs2 ???) not 1vs1.

I you want to enjoy fights against soviets you should play more PvP games and not rely on CPU fights.

Btw, we say you are trolling because it's a rule of thumb that Skirmishes are just for fun and do not take part of the balancing process; although your suggestions aren't too good either.

Last edited August 22, 2011 at 4:17 PM by blackbishop

The reason the upgrade to light tanks wont be removed as of now is due to the fact you can immediatley build Tank Hall. With other factions you can not do that. Instead you must tech up slowly and steadily, while in the process spending huge amounts of fuel. For the soviets it can be argued they have access to vehicles FASTER.

Also the upgrade to at infantry and mortars will not be removed b/c of balance. The soviet infantry buildings cost no fuel and are easy to get. Instead, the upgrade cost fuel, which basically gives all factions a fair start. However with soviets you can pick which units you want to upgrade to, giving you more diversity.

As for the CPU, well its not perfect but EF tries :P. At least the EF CPU uses abilites.

I suggest you try different strategies due to the Soviets unique nature and build style :D. Dont forget to use thee armory as well :P

Yes but I repeat, it is not possible that EXPERT CPU loses vs EASY CPU.
If you do a Skirmish vs Russian, is too easy to win, they do a lot of infantry and they lose...

yes and we repeat skirmish games dosnt shows the balance of the game! if you want it more balanced and get opponents on more or less same skill you need to play it vs humans!

The problem of call-in unit spamming CPUs will be fixed with 1.5.

Unfortunetly AI isn't perfect. For example British send trucks straight to the front, resulting in their immediate death :(. The soviets have alot of weak but numerous units, whch differs from Wher or PE. This is probably why the soviets are losing more. 1 mg can pin numerous infantry down and the AI isn't too smart about flanking. And in any prolonged AI game Axis are sure to win due to the number of heavy tanks at their disposial. Hope that clears up any problems or concerns.

I've played a match with my friend to try the new patch of the game, there is no problem with the SU faction this time. Maybe a KVs must have a lower cost, one Panther eats 2 KV1 and one KV85, and KV tanks are do not crush hedges. The Dev team took a long and good work balancing since 1.0.  8) Good old times, when the sniper ace was like Chuck Norris.  ;D :D

That sounds fun XD. When sniper ace reaches vet 3 he get roundhouse kick :P

TheReaper wrote:
there is no problem with the SU faction this time. Maybe a KVs must have a lower cost, one Panther eats 2 KV1 and one KV85, and KV tanks are do not crush hedges.

KV-85 costs 500MP. Why should it win with a Panther? Want a Panther killer? Get an IS-2. Same MP cost as a Panther.
KV-1 is better in every way than a Churchill. It will win vs a Stug or a PzIV anytime.

Paciat wrote:

TheReaper wrote:
there is no problem with the SU faction this time. Maybe a KVs must have a lower cost, one Panther eats 2 KV1 and one KV85, and KV tanks are do not crush hedges.

KV-85 costs 500MP. Why should it win with a Panther? Want a Panther killer? Get an IS-2. Same MP cost as a Panther.
KV-1 is better in every way than a Churchill. It will win vs a Stug or a PzIV anytime.

Some situation you can't afford that. If it was like the M10 it would be more usefull. It is different when you philosophe on something, or you actually use it on the battlefield. If I could afford one more KV I could push back that nasty Panther, If it was the US M10 would took care of this situation. Newermind, let the balance team decide what should change.

* As far as I know, PE Mortar take 20 fuel, 40 fuel (60 fuel) for
first Mortar. Then 40 fuel for each more (60 fuel, 100 fuel).
* As far as I know, Wehr Mortar take (200 mp, 220 mp, 25 fuel)
420 mp, 25 fuel! Gasp! BEfore you can start making them :)

Comparatively, Soviet mortars cost 200+120+35fuel
(320MP+35fuel)... before you can make them.

So far, soviet seems cheap mortar-wise.
The cheapest are the americans, at 15 fuel :D

I would have just a serious suggestion to advance:
Give us a engineer team at the start, like the all other CoH factions.
That resolve the weaknees russian start...
Thanks,
P.

I don't think that will fix anything. Instead we will need to adjust more stuff because could be OP. Soviet soldiers will come earlier than intended.

All other factions have engineers at the start? I don't think so, PE has kettens and CW has Infantry sections. Every faction has it's own qualities so soviets are not going to have starting unit.

No retreat and no vet were a bad decision, not having starting unit not.

Hi, Blackbishop!
Well... kettens or Infantry has better than nothing.
Sometimes I'm disheartened to start a EF party because I'm sur that I will have a lot of pain in the begginings...
But I never, really never, make a unit to die; I allways retreat before, because my trip is take care of my units and to make them veterans...
Now I think that a great deal to the russians would be to give at ZIS 2 a stealth ability... That would be great...
Thank you man for your attention,
P.

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Post Merge: [time]1314312613[/time]

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OK, BB!
It's all right...
I've just playied EF patch 1.5.1 and it's perfect now... Every thing is all right!!!
I will be insistent in the AT gun stealth ability suggestion.
Thanks,
P.

Last edited August 25, 2011 at 10:50 PM by Pajeu

Hello, I'm newbie here,and I understand that my words has not much influence here buy now.
Neverless, i dont like that I couldn't recruit T-34 tanks in Motor Pool , first of all.
And the second - it would be greate to "upgrate" Soviet motor pool.How ? First,for example,you can build T-34,KV-1 ,T-60 tanks & Su-85.But .efter some upgrate ( lets say in will cost 700 points of fuel and 150 point of ammo) ,player could make T-34-85,IS-2 and SU-100 ( existing after pool upgrate Su-85 could be upgrate with 100mm cannon )

AriX wrote:
Hello, I'm newbie here,and I understand that my words has not much influence here buy now.
Neverless, i dont like that I couldn't recruit T-34 tanks in Motor Pool , first of all.
And the second - it would be greate to "upgrate" Soviet motor pool.How ? First,for example,you can build T-34,KV-1 ,T-60 tanks & Su-85.But .efter some upgrate ( lets say in will cost 700 points of fuel and 150 point of ammo) ,player could make T-34-85,IS-2 and SU-100 ( existing after pool upgrate Su-85 could be upgrate with 100mm cannon )

700 FUEL POINTS?!

Are you MAD?  :o

I think he meant 70 :P. Where would you even find 700 ;D ;D

Quote
700 FUEL POINTS?!
Are you MAD?  :o

It was gust an example  ::)
But what about my idea ??

Last edited August 31, 2011 at 10:32 AM by AriX

AriX wrote:

Quote
700 FUEL POINTS?!
Are you MAD?  :o

It was gust an example  ::)
But what about my idea ??

Mmmmh...NO!  ;D

And why you don't like Russian Tank Depot?

Last edited August 31, 2011 at 12:44 PM by Desert_Fox

AriX wrote:
Hello, I'm newbie here,and I understand that my words has not much influence here buy now.
Neverless, i dont like that I couldn't recruit T-34 tanks in Motor Pool , first of all.
And the second - it would be greate to "upgrate" Soviet motor pool.How ? First,for example,you can build T-34,KV-1 ,T-60 tanks & Su-85.But .efter some upgrate ( lets say in will cost 700 points of fuel and 150 point of ammo) ,player could make T-34-85,IS-2 and SU-100 ( existing after pool upgrate Su-85 could be upgrate with 100mm cannon )

What you suggest is how the tankhall currently works. You have upgrades which unlocks better tanks. You can actually skip light tanks and build your beloved t34. Which costs similar ammount of fuel like you suggested. Why changing what is already there??

Killar wrote:
What you suggest is how the tankhall currently works. You have upgrades which unlocks better tanks. You can actually skip light tanks and build your beloved t34. Which costs similar ammount of fuel like you suggested. Why changing what is already there??

Build my beloved T-34 in tankhall ?
T-34 can be deployed on battlefield after choosing Tank doctrine or not ??

Yes, that can be done as well.

AriX wrote:

Killar wrote:
What you suggest is how the tankhall currently works. You have upgrades which unlocks better tanks. You can actually skip light tanks and build your beloved t34. Which costs similar ammount of fuel like you suggested. Why changing what is already there??

Build my beloved T-34 in tankhall ?
T-34 can be deployed on battlefield after choosing Tank doctrine or not ??

Yes, with 650 MP (IIRC) against 340 of the Tank Depot.

blackbishop wrote:
Yes, that can be done as well.

Sorry for my newbines,but how ?
in the Tankhall I can produce light tank like T-60,T-90 & Su-85 + "heavy stuff" like KV-1,KV-85 and IS-2.What I do wrong ??

Check the reward units. Every time you create a new Relic Online account, every reward unit is automatically activated. KV-1 and KV-85 are reward units for T-34/76 and T-34/85. Uncheck the green thumb and you will be able to use your T-34s :)

We learn new things every day :P

MaxiKing6 wrote:
Check the reward units. Every time you create a new Relic Online account, every reward unit is automatically activated. KV-1 and KV-85 are reward units for T-34/76 and T-34/85. Uncheck the green thumb and you will be able to use your T-34s :)

Thanks

Fellows,sorry for offtopic in this thread,but I want to make T-34's & KV tank in my Tank hall.As i understood ,those tank must be delated from revard unit list - how to do that ?

Unless you know about modding and want your game to become incompatible with others, you can't have KVs and T-34s at the same time. You could, like I said, either mod the game or simply choose the Breakthrough doctrine where you are able to call in T-34s. ;)

MaxiKing6 wrote:
Unless you know about modding and want your game to become incompatible with others, you can't have KVs and T-34s at the same time.

Yeap,I know about moding ( in past i like to mod RTW and BF2).Now I starting to edit CoH.
So, you can help me with my question,please ?

As long as you don't release your modified Eastern Front, everything is fine. I'll send you a how-to via PM ;)

I dont ant to release it.Gust for my private use. ;) 8)

I don't like: the red army from itself represents the "cannon fodder". :(

IMO only conscripts have that feeling. And conscripts doesn't represent the whole EF red army.

Conscripts must not like their description then:

"Good as Canon Fodder"  ;D

heck, i wouldnt either! as for the WHOLE red army being cannon fodder, thats just conscripts. do guards, partisans, and naval infantry seem like cannon fodder to you?