Favorite Military Leader...

Hello Tovarich! :)

@Stavka88: try these links. I will modify this post occasionally.
http://ancienthistory.about.com
http://militaryhistory.about.com/
http://www.ww2talk.com
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/general.htm

Last edited July 31, 2011 at 8:05 PM by Otto 213

@Otto213: I was watching the history channel  :P. And they said he used fast strike troops to rush and stun they enemy before heavy infantry(with more armor and weapons) came in to help.

Hans-Ulrich Rudel was a Stuka pilot during World War II and a "dyed in the wool" Nazi until his death in 1982. He commanded the oldest and the best known Stuka Group - Schlachtgeschwader 2 Immelmann. He was the most highly decorated German serviceman of the war. Joseph Stalin himself put a price of 100,000 rubles on his head.

In 1936, he joined the Luftwaffe. Rudel had difficulty learning the new techniques and was considered unsuitable for combat flying. During the Polish Campaign he flew (as an observer) on long-range reconnaissance missions. Rudel earned the Iron Cross 2nd Class on 11 October 1939. After a number of requests he was reassigned to dive bombers. He spent the Battle of Britain and the invasion of Crete  in non-combat roles. He was still regarded as a poor pilot! On June 23, 1941 he flew his first combat dive-bombing mission. On July 18, 1941, Rudel was awarded Iron Cross 1st Class. September 23, 1941, Rudel sank the Soviet Battleship "Marat". (It was later raised and served as a floating battery).

December 24, 1941, Rudel flew his 500th mission and was awarded the German Cross in Gold.  Rudel was sent to Graz to lecture and train new Stuka crews. On January 15 1942, he was awarded with Knights Cross and returned to the Eastern Front in June of 1942.
In September of 1942, while operating in the Stalingrad area Rudel received the command of a squadron. It was often sent to attack Soviet tank units, even when inadequacy of bombs against tanks was realized. He helped test the Ju-87 G-1, Panzerknacker. On the first day of the Operation Citadel, during his first mission, Rudel knocked out four Soviet tanks and by the evening, his score had grown to twelve. Rudel developed new tactics for Tank Destroyer Squadrons. He found that the best way to knock out tanks was to hit them in the back or the side. Attacking the back of the tank meant that the plane had to come from the rear flying towards friendly territory - a great advantage if the plane got damaged during the attack.

On January 1, 1945, Rudel was awarded the Knights Cross with Golden Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds, being the only recipient of this award specially created for him. In February of 1945, Rudel was seriously wounded and his right thigh was shattered by anti-aircraft fire, He managed to land and was taken to the field hospital, where his leg was amputated. Rudel had an artificial limb fitted and then returned to his squadron. He continued flying combat missions until the end of the war. Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions claiming a total of 2,000 targets destroyed; including 1000 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and 11 aircraft, (which he personally shot down). Rudel thought that the Lend-Lease American tanks were easier to kill than the Soviet T-34s, but he hated their machine guns, because he was shotdown by one.

Last edited July 31, 2011 at 9:58 PM by Otto 213

i know this topic was probably dead a long time ago, but i still want to post,
chesty puller. the dude was a frickin' boss! he was the most decorated marine in US history, and here are some of his quotes- "They are in front of us, behind us, and we are flanked on both sides by an enemy that outnumbers us 29:1. They can't get away from us now!"
-"We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them." just look up some of his war stories and you wil agree with me. http://www.badassoftheweek.com/puller.html

Hi TigerClaw,

I'm back. Hope you're well. I was discharged from PT on friday from a bungled surgery last june to restore functionality to my left hand. I went in with one disfunctional finger and now have 3 disfunctional fingers on that hand. Talk about depressing; I was for 6 months. I'm thinking of changing my Username to Otto_Halfhand!

Last Friday March 23, 2012 marked the 150th Anniversary the start of the Valley Campaign. So I thought I might amplify on my original post. Valley Campaign battles have been embolded

Otto wrote:
My favorite military leader is Thomas J.Jackson. Irish American, West Point, Class of 42(46?). His Valley Campaign of 1862 is still required reading there. During the Valley Campaign created a detour for over 100,000 men of the Army of the Potomac  on the Road to Richmond for four months. - Not even PADOT can do that!

Battles: Vera Cruz, Mexico City, Chapultepec-"the Halls of Montezuma", John Brown's Execution, Bull Run, Romney, Kernstown, McDowell, Franklin, Front Royal, Winchester, Cross Keys, Port Republic, Mechanicsville, Gaines Mill, Savage's Station, White Oak Swamp, Malvern Hill, Cedar Mountain, Second Manassas, Harper's Ferry, Antietam, Fredricksburg, Chancellorsville.

The most promoted American Soldier during the "War to Steal California from the Mexicans".

Advocated "Shooting the brave ones", Foot Cavalry and arming his men with 12 Ft long pikes, (Sarissa's -See Alexander the Great).

"Fool Tom", "Old Jack", "Robert E Lee's Hammer", "Lee's Right Arm", "Old Blue Light", "Stonewall".

A Presbyterian Deacon he believed in "keeping holy the Sabbath". He started many of his battles on a Sunday.

Final Words "Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees... Send Forward A.P.Hill"

The Battle of Kernstown 3.23.1862 was fought on a Sunday. The "Stonewall Division" ~3,600 strong Launched a poorly coordinated attack on the right flank of Shield's division ~ 12,000 strong, (probably 8000 were engaged). In order to do so a double time march of about a mile in length was required this approach was mostly uphill. The object of this maneuver was to turn the well placed 6 gun Federal artillery battery - Battery B, 4th US regulars on Pritchards Hill. Jackson's  Rockbridge Battery of 8 cast iron 6 lbrs from the Tredegar Iron Works in Richmond. Jackson's battery set up in a marshy meadow, only to find they were out ranged. They limbered up found the range and set up again. They were in the open under fire the entire time. The carnage was incredible. Jackson's attack was continued. It might have suceeded, (doubtfull), when a well timed attack from Tyler's Brigade stopped Jackson cold. Jackson fought on until dark and retreated, (read as routed). It was the only battle Jackson ever lost. I'm proud to say that two of the engaged Federal regiments that defeated Jackson were the 110 PA and 112 PA; now part of 28th Division PA-NG.mustering from my home region.

Jackson got the name Stonewall at the Battle of Bull Run. CSA General Bee while under heavy fire  saw Jackson's Brigade on his flank, standing there picking their noses. In exasperation Bee called out to his men "There stands Jackson like a stoe wall". Bee recieved a mortal wound minutes later.  So legends are born.

Jackson's final battle Chancellorsville 5.2.1863 also involved a flank march. This time he succeeded and routed the USA XI corps, effectively winning  the battle and saving R.E.Lee's greatly outnumbered Army of Northern Virginia to fight on for 23 more bitter months. Jackson was mortally wounded by friendly fire that evening while conducting a twilight recconnaisence.

Most definitely Erwin Rommel. (from Wikipedia)

Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel  (15 November 1891 – 14 October 1944), popularly known as the Desert Fox (Wüstenfuchs), was a German Field Marshal of World War II. He won the respect of both his own troops and the enemies he fought.

He was a highly decorated officer in World War I, and was awarded the Pour le Mérite for his exploits on the Italian front. In World War II, he further distinguished himself as the commander of the 7th Panzer Division during the 1940 invasion of France. However, it was his leadership of German and Italian forces in the North African campaign that established the legend of the Desert Fox. He is considered to have been one of the most skilled commanders of desert warfare in the conflict. He later commanded the German forces opposing the Allied cross-channel invasion in Normandy.

As one of the few generals who consistently fought the Western Allies (he was never assigned to the Eastern Front), Rommel is regarded as having been a humane and professional officer. His Afrikakorps was never accused of war crimes. Soldiers captured during his Africa campaign were reported to have been treated humanely. Furthermore, he ignored orders to kill captured commandos, Jewish soldiers and civilians in all theaters of his command.

Late in the war, Rommel was linked to the conspiracy to kill Adolf Hitler. Because Rommel was widely renowned, Hitler chose to eliminate him quietly; in trade for assurances his family would be spared, Rommel agreed to commit suicide.

Welcome to the forums! were very glad to have you here, and i hope you enjoy the mod!

as for  Erwin Rommel, i would agree. he's actually one German leader i can root for morally because of the attempted assassination of Hitler.

stealthattack1 wrote:
Welcome to the forums! were very glad to have you here, and i hope you enjoy the mod!
he's actually one German leader i can root for morally because of the attempted assassination of Hitler.

Well, that, and the fact he didn't abuse POWs and didn't excute people just because. IIRC he refused to kill any jews (although not sure)

Robert the bruce :D

stealthattack1 wrote:
Welcome to the forums! were very glad to have you here, and i hope you enjoy the mod!

as for  Erwin Rommel, i would agree. he's actually one German leader i can root for morally because of the attempted assassination of Hitler.

Thanks!

And he was anti-nazi as well, he only fought because he loved Germany..

altogether a good guy on the wrong side

Rommel is a guy I have the utmost respect for. He was military genius and made off with the constant promise of supplies from high command yet to not recieved them because of eastern front redirections.

Rommel was the first general to use the Flak88 as an anti-tank weapon. Low on PaK ammunition and desperately waiting on supplies, Rommel ordered that Flak88s be cranked down and target enemy armor, which worked extremely well.

This was from a book I read a good while ago.

Many of you have remarked on the Desert Fox's independent spirit. Much of the Success of the DAK can be attributed to this but you may not know why. The Brits and Amis, with the able assistance of the Poles were masters of intellegencing. Both the Heer and Naval codes were cracked by the Allies and virtually every sailing and move order generated in Berlin was known to them. In Africa the Brits relied on this information to a large degree. Rommel frequently ignored orders or placed himself outside of the line of communications in order to achieve his military goals. May 1940, June 1940, April 1941, June 1942, October 1942 and on other occasions this was so. In North Africa he achieved his greatest successes when the British planned on him following orders from Berlin and he didn't. The build-up that led to the Gazala battles and the fall of Tobruk was in great part due to Arrangements Rommel made with Kesslering and Commando Supremo during a stopover in Rome en route from Berlin. Without the intel communications intercepts the Royal Navy was unable to intercept men and material. It happened again after Torch when the 10th Panzer Division with its Tiger battalion landed in Africa.

Which is why they nicknamed him Ghost Battalion IIRC :P

I'm not totally certain but the 7th Panzer division was the "GHost Division" THe Ghost battalion may have been its rcce battalion. For some reason I associate the ghost battalion with Guderian. Maybe Lord Rommel can weigh-in on this.

No I think you are right. I didn't actually remember what came after "ghost" :P

Memory is a great Betrayer. What say we expand this discussion to include Guderian. I'll leave the nitty gritty to others, but for Starts:
Heinz Guderian is considered by many to be the founder of the Panzer Truppen. Technically he wasn't because he didn't have sufficient rank at the time. A student of the theories of Basil-Liddell Hart, he certainly was a driving force in the development of combined arms, blitzkrieg and Schwerpunkt philosophy. One of the more successful "Panzer Leader"s he lost Hitler's confidence by not adhering strictly to orders, much like Rommel. He ended up as Panzertruppen inspector general, (or some such title), as a result. In this role he advocated anti-tank measures rather than tanks to counter the T34 threat and increase production. He ridiculed the notion of super heavy tanks like the Maus. He was a prolific writer. My favorites are the operations manuals for Panther and Tiger crews, which contained suggestive pictures to arouse the interest of the troopers. Apparently it worked. You can find some examples of these manuals on the Web.

How about enlightening us on the career of von Brauchitsch?

In my opinion, Marshall Shukov was the best military leader of WWII.Because of him, the Soviet Union managed to win World War 2.I know that Rommel and Guderian are also very good leaders but remember who really won WWII and that was the USSR!
Sorry for bad English.

Great Khan  ( Genghis Khan)
Julius Caesar
Cyrus the Great ( Cyrs II)
Timur
Francisco Pizarro González
AND
Napoleon Bonaparte

Last edited October 11, 2012 at 3:12 AM by delmar77

Your choice of Pizzzaro is a most interesting one.  Anyone who could bring down an empire the size of the Inca's and running the length of South America with 170 men and 25 horses certainly is worthy of consideration. Do you think that if a civil war was not on going and the assasination/murders of the two rival leaders yielding a leadership vacuum was the real reason the conquest suceeded? (granted that Pizzaro did capture and kill Atahualpa.

My favorite military leaders:

• Frederick the Great, mostly for daring the impossible when he saw his chance


• General Suworow for leading troops into battle for more than 40 years and never losing!

My Favorite Leaders

• Stonewall Jackson(Confederate[American Civil War])


• Robert Lee(Confederate[American Civil War])


• Ulysses S. Grant(Union[American Civil War])


• William Sherman(Union[American Civil War])


• George Patton(American[World War 2])


• Dwight Eisenhower(American[World War 2])


• Julius Caeser


• George Washington

One of my personal favorites is Colonel John Singleton Mosby. He Fought At First Manassas at the outset of the US Civil war as a private soldier in the Washington Guards Company of the 1st VA Cavalry. He soon became disenchanted with this sort of regular army work and Came to the Attention of J.E.B. Stuart. It is thought by some that Stuart's Famous Ride around McClellan's Army was the Brainchild of John Mosby. In early 1863 Mosby was given command of the 43 VA Cavalry Battalion of Irregular Partizan Rangers. He launched a campaign of guerilla warfare in a six county area of Northern Virginia that soon became known as "Mosby's Confederacy. Working with small groups of 5 to 23 men he conducted raids in occupied and soon to be heavily garrisoned areas. His men would not generally engage in open battle but would ride in, create havoc and then "Skedaddle". The local population did much to aid and abet Mosby and his men in bedeviling the "Damn Yankees" Among his operations were included Train Wrecking, Bridge blowing operations, Hijacking of wagon trains and even kidnapping. One night he and 8(?) men rode into Fairfax County Courthouse and captured Union General Stoughton in his bed. Some of Mosby's raids penetrated into the Washington DC itself. Generals Grant and Sheridan had so much trouble with Mosby that they put a price on his head, Hanged his men as terrorists and put Southern Civilians on trains as hostages to keep Mosy's Raiders on good behaviour. It didn't work. Mosby surrendered his command shortly after Appomatox. His operations had diverted thousands of Union Soldiers and caused over a Million dollars of damages in a extended 27 month campaign. He had shown that effective partizan activities could be undertaken to great sucess with very limited means. After the War was over Mosby held several government positions in the Grant Administration.

About Pizarro I think it could be easily crushed and still persevered in the face of great challenge and the overwhelming force of numbers. And everyone here on the forum know that an overwhelming amount of quality wins. About infighting, history is full of civil war in states that do not allow themselves to conquer.
The military leader is not only good in tactics, strategy and it needs Pizarro in my opinion had the opportunity and boldness.

What you say is true. Pizzarro's greatness was not so much in terms of quality. Granted Toledo steel, Firearms and Warhorses were high quality stuff but to conquer and stabilise an area as large as the Inca Empire with so few men was an amazing feat.

Erwin Rommel is a personall favorite, though mostly from the fanboism of the man. His tactics repeatedly confounded the British, but only because nobody caught on to them. He really did fall into a repetetive pattern of sweeping right flanks that only Monty figured out--which is why only he was able to drive Rommel back. He also earns my respect for his distance from the Nazi Party, equal treatment of himself, his officers, and his soldiers, as well as PoWs (equal ration shares for everyone, for example), and his outstanding allocation of resources and ability to turn a defensive position into a blistering counterattack.

Hey Volks,
Rommel is one of my favorites too. I sometimes wonder though if much of Rommel's success in Afrika wasn't due to his habit of going out of communications with his superiors in Berlin. Most of the coups scored by the 30thcorps/8th Army were due to possesion of German codes by the Brits. This is not to belittle either the hard fighters on either side of the aisle or the Desert Fox himself.

Mine favorite is G.G Mannerheim. His command saved the finland from soviet occupation  3 times.                  http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3060/3009425719_22ed96d23f_z.jpg?zz=1 some people say that never attack russian but i say never attack finland:D (i know that many of you dont agree but im finnish and i had to say that)