Poland

As we know Poland was first country in ww2 where first tanks/planes had place. I was thinking about idea of a ''Reward Unit'' for British called Polish paratroopers instead of Commando HQ Glinder in Commando doctrine. Squad would be like 6member and you could have only 2 of them at once. They would be equiped with 4 lee rifles and 2 bren machine guns, also could throw sticky bombs and grenades :P Thats my idea, what u think about it guys?

Sounds great. The polish fought bravely during the war on many frontes. However the unit itself is nothing unique and already kind of exist? And its the EF rules to NEVER let a unit be called something national like for example American ex baseball pro handgrenade throwers or Finnish ski troops ^^

Great idea though and please dont stop sharing them ! :D

Another idea about Poland...  ::), better is finish ostheer than making something new.

I'm quite annoyed to read always the same things  >:(

Hmm I think Poland would really fit with the mod. They can have units like attack dogs, railway cannons and the Maus. Maybe they can build units from Romania, Italia, Hungary, Finland and Luxembourg too. Maybe they can have some sort of cool surrender or POW system?

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Hmm I think Poland would really fit with the mod. They can have units like attack dogs, railway cannons and the Maus. Maybe they can build units from Romania, Italia, Hungary, Finland and Luxembourg too. Maybe they can have some sort of cool surrender or POW system?

Don't forget Japan!

Cranialwizard wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Hmm I think Poland would really fit with the mod. They can have units like attack dogs, railway cannons and the Maus. Maybe they can build units from Romania, Italia, Hungary, Finland and Luxembourg too. Maybe they can have some sort of cool surrender or POW system?

Don't forget Japan!

Don't even forget Nazi Space Troopers!

я считаю что польские отряды могут заменить партизан или морских пехотинцев в доктринах  красной армии

ap6y3 wrote:
я считаю что польские отряды могут заменить партизан или морских пехотинцев в доктринах  красной армии

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The official language of the forum is English. If you can't speak english please use google translate...

krauser92 wrote:
As we know Poland was first country in ww2 where first tanks/planes had place. I was thinking about idea of a ''Reward Unit'' for British called Polish paratroopers instead of Commando HQ Glinder in Commando doctrine. Squad would be like 6member and you could have only 2 of them at once. They would be equiped with 4 lee rifles and 2 bren machine guns, also could throw sticky bombs and grenades :P Thats my idea, what u think about it guys?

no

krauser92 wrote:
As we know Poland was first country in ww2 where first tanks/planes had place. I was thinking about idea of a ''Reward Unit'' for British called Polish paratroopers instead of Commando HQ Glinder in Commando doctrine. Squad would be like 6member and you could have only 2 of them at once. They would be equiped with 4 lee rifles and 2 bren machine guns, also could throw sticky bombs and grenades :P Thats my idea, what u think about it guys?

And surrendered in the matter of a week or two.

Although I do like the idea of a dedicated Resistance faction that can be based off the Polish and Yugoslav resistance movements to replace the British faction as a reward. And it would fit the mod better than the RMC *though I do like them anyway* 

Alright, put me up in front of the S.S. firing squad for my ideas. I don't care.

Last edited July 18, 2011 at 1:22 AM by HyperSniper999

HyperSniper999 wrote:
And surrendered in the matter of a week or two.

yeah, right...  >:(

cephalos wrote:

HyperSniper999 wrote:
And surrendered in the matter of a week or two.

yeah, right...  >:(

Sept 1th - Okt 6th

more than 4 weeks  ;)

Killar wrote:

cephalos wrote:

HyperSniper999 wrote:
And surrendered in the matter of a week or two.

yeah, right...  >:(

Sept 1th - Okt 6th

more than 4 weeks  ;)

Sept 17th to Oct 6th is 3 weeks. This is Eastern front mod, right? :-X ...oww you were talking about our 2nd evil neighbor. Yep we held our lines even longer when fighting them. ;D

That was wiki entry about the war in poland. "holding line" is not the right word i think. More "retreating till the end of the war"  :-\

Killar wrote:
That was wiki entry about the war in poland. "holding line" is not the right word i think. More "retreating till the end of the war"  :-\

Doesn't count  :P
French forces during fall gelb were retreating all the time. And Ruskies during operation Barbarossa?

Yeah that's a little bit of an unfair assessment of Poland. It was being squashed in by 2 massive forces and was the first experience of Blitzkrieg. Polish commanders couldn't get orders through because communications were cut by fast moving German assaults.

Killar wrote:
That was wiki entry about the war in Poland. "holding line" is not the right word i think. More "retreating till the end of the war"  :-\

Retreating? Where Poland isnt Russia, enemies on every side
5529 km borders 4308 km of with the enemy. Also the biggest battle of 1939 and the biggest allied offensive battle of 1939-1941 hapened at Bzura river. Two Polish armies were encircled west of their capital and tried to break thru... some made it...
Ow... "retreating till the end of the war"? Thats III Reich in 1943 your talking about.
EDIT: Damn that map looks ugly but I couldnt find a better one (quickly). Looks like a job of a 10 year old child. ;D

Last edited July 18, 2011 at 3:17 PM by Paciat

Paciat is right. Polish troups fought desperately to defend their country, waiting for Western Allied help that was promised but never came. They used a lot of outdated equipment to stand against two superior modern equipped Armies. They fought bravely, one good example here:
The "Westerplatte" in Danzig/Gdansk was the second target of Germany in the early hours of September 1st 1939. It was attacked by the German ship "Schlesweig Holstein" and several StuKas, but the small crew of the Westerplatte defended themselves for 7 days against Germany. In the end, when the crew was arrested, German officers saluted when the crew passed them and the commander was allowed to keep his saber in captivity in order to use it if he wants.

Last edited July 18, 2011 at 5:35 PM by MaxiKing6

MaxiKing6 wrote:
Paciat is right. Polish troups fought desperately to defend their country, waiting for Western Allied help that was promised but never came. They used a lot of outdated equipment to stand against two superior modern equipped Armies. They fought bravely, one good example here:
The "Westerplatte" in Danzig/Gdansk was the second target of Germany in the early hours of September 1st 1939. It was attacked by the German ship "Schlesweig Holstein" and several StuKas, but the small crew of the Westerplatte defended themselves for 6 days against Germany. In the end, when the crew was arrested, German officers saluted when the crew passed them and the commander was allowed to keep his saber in captivity in order to use it if he wants.

Brave soldiers, indeed.  Thx for the story.

Too much emotions here

Killar wrote:
Too much emotions here

Or simply to many facts? :P

7 days, precisely.

Yeah ok, edited. But Polish forces deserve respect.  ;)

You all are right. But the Poles, no matter how interesting they are, simply wouldn't fit in and be fun to play. I mean, put a little Polish 1930's tankette next to an IS-3. Although I guess the devs set themselves up for that with this uber, borderline post-war  tank which would set the game to 1945. They could've set it up so the Soviets were an early 40's faction and not a mid-late 40's faction, but people wouldn't get their beloved IS-3. But then OH would have to be sped up because 1941-43 Soviets would be out of place compared to Relic's D-Day factions.

A polish faction would be better in an independet mod featuring all the vehicles and weapons in the beginning of the war.

Killar wrote:
A polish faction would be better in an independet mod featuring all the vehicles and weapons in the beginning of the war.

+1 I even have a concept written down on my PC.

HyperSniper999 wrote:
You all are right. But the Poles, no matter how interesting they are, simply wouldn't fit in and be fun to play. I mean, put a little Polish 1930's tankette next to an IS-3. Although I guess the devs set themselves up for that with this uber, borderline post-war  tank which would set the game to 1945. They could've set it up so the Soviets were an early 40's faction and not a mid-late 40's faction, but people wouldn't get their beloved IS-3. But then OH would have to be sped up because 1941-43 Soviets would be out of place compared to Relic's D-Day factions.

+1

poland sucked did they even use guns? a friend told me they used horses

RedGuard wrote:
poland sucked did they even use guns? a friend told me they used horses

lol, what an ignorance.
Red Army and Werhmacht used horses too. Does it mean they sucked too?
Horses were effective and cheap way to transport troops to and from battle. In Poland there wasn't a lot of good quality roads ( in Soviet Union too), so Polish soliders were using horses as they were capable of crossing terrain that trucks couldn't.

And yes, Poles used guns. Sometimes they were using them more effective than some Soviet cowards did.

I was just kidding but cool dude 8)

ur real cool

Last edited July 18, 2011 at 11:01 PM by RedGuard

cephalos wrote:

RedGuard wrote:
poland sucked did they even use guns? a friend told me they used horses

lol, what an ignorance.
Red Army and Werhmacht used horses too. Does it mean they sucked too?
Horses were effective and cheap way to transport troops to and from battle. In Poland there wasn't a lot of good quality roads ( in Soviet Union too), so Polish soliders were using horses as they were capable of crossing terrain that trucks couldn't.

Tovarich I am disappointed in you! When Patton first noted the use of  Horse drawn vehicles during the Cobra Operation he remarked it was the  end for the Germans. He went on to draw a parallel to Buonaparte's  retreat from Moscow.

QuoteAnd yes, Poles used guns.

THe poles used their Brains. THey Broke the German Naval Code in 1935(?) This directly led to the loss of "The Battle of the Atlantic" for the Germans. A MAJOR contribution to the war effort.

Is this gonna be another Sweden topic, where if Red doesn't believe Poland was any good then they weren't? I've read somewhere that Poland actually had a larger army than Germany at the time it was invaded but nobody could've anticipated the Blitzkrieg tactics the Germans used. Communications were cut and Polish units were isolated. Is this true? Did Poland have a larger (not necessarily more advanced) army than the Wehrmacht at the time?

Poland mobilised about 1.000.000 soliders to fight with about 1.500.000 Germans and 700.000 Soviets. Also most of polish equipment was outdated, and germans had like 5 times more tanks and airforce. Navy doesn't count.
Bliztkrieg tactics was totally succesful against polish army. I guess it would work everywhere in the same, effecive way, as GodlikeDennis said, we were first to discover how blitzkrieg was deadly.

RedGuard wrote:
I was just kidding but cool dude 8)

ur real cool

I'm really sorry if I insulted you  :-[ I'm getting furoius when somebody is insuling my country  :)

Germany had more soldiers than poland. That doesnt really matter when you look at the war against soviets later on. Airforce superiority and tank superiority in numbers was the key. Poland couldnt deal with the stuka attacks on key points and had only 800 tanks (vs. 2400 german tanks). Most of the tanks were WWI french crappy FT17. Their own tanks (7TP) could easily deal with german Panzer I, II and even IV.

Most problem i think was Poland generals completly underestimated the situation. They were a proud nation and didnt want to defend. Their troops wanted to advance towards berlin (Marsz na Berlin! Marsz na Berlin!). They had a deep trust in the french counterattack, which didnt came.
Even the french generals told them to back off and prepare a defence.
When the russians attacked the polish border police even welcomed them because they didnt get any orders from high command and were confused.

The Soviets didnt attack instantly because they feared a war with england and france.

Finally poland was steamrolled without surrendering.

Killar wrote:
Poland couldnt deal with the stuka attacks on key points and had only 800 tanks (vs. 2400 german tanks). Most of the tanks were WWI french crappy FT17. Their own tanks (7TP) could easily deal with german Panzer I, II and even IV.

The main Polish armor were accually 2,5ton TK-3 and TKS tankettes equiped with 1 MG or rarelly a 20mm gun.

7TP was the best Polish tank of 1939 but saing "could easily deal with german Panzer I, II and even IV" is wrong. Very similar to Soviet T-26. Its armor could be penetrated by a 20mm gun from 500m.

Polish were greatly outnumbered. I think the French were the ones that had an army the was as strong as the Germans. The only reason they lost was because No one could of defended France as bad as the French did ;D

Seeme wrote:
Polish were greatly outnumbered. I think the French were the ones that had an army the was as strong as the Germans. The only reason they lost was because No one could of defended France as bad as the French did ;D

Germany accualy had only 9 (as I remember) divisions on the western front then. A massive attack pointed towards Germans industrial center would win the war in 1939 (or a year earlier if Chechoslovacia decided to fight. It took France some time to mobilize their army (Polish army was ~50% mobilized on the 1st of September), French launched very limited offensives (staing in range of Maginot line guns) On the sameday French high command decided to leave its allies alone Stalins army attacked. He probably feared Germany will loose a 2 front war quickly so he waited for his spies to confirm that it is safe to attack, without going to war with allies (we all know how prepared to war the SU was looking at the war with Finland 3 months later).

so in other words the poles heavy battle tank was a bren carrier? lolz

Paciat wrote:
7TP was the best Polish tank of 1939 but saing "could easily deal with german Panzer I, II and even IV" is wrong.

Not wrong from the 7PT gun´s perspective

Paciat wrote:
The main Polish armor were accually 2,5ton TK-3 and TKS tankettes equiped with 1 MG or rarelly a 20mm gun.

like the main german force was equipped with panzerI and II  :P

Last edited July 19, 2011 at 5:33 PM by Killar

I think it fair to say that all of the tanks in use in 1939 were obsolete by the Standard of 1943. I think the Poles were overwhelmed by the Innovative combined arms tactics promulgated by Liddell HArt and Germany's three pronged envelopment strategy. THe Soviet invasion didn't help either.

Moderators: please consider moving this thread to other topics.

Otto wrote:
I think it fair to say that all of the tanks in use in 1939 were obsolete by the Standard of 1943. I think the Poles were overwhelmed by the Innovative combined arms tactics promulgated by Liddell HArt and Germany's three pronged envelopment strategy.

...and by the number of men and equipment. Sunny weather and open plains didnt help the defenders too.

Quote
Moderators: please consider moving this thread to other topics.

This topic was a unit suggestion at first.

Hahahah "Peace in our time," Chamberlain. Look at what he did.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Is this gonna be another Sweden topic, where if Red doesn't believe Poland was any good then they weren't? I've read somewhere that Poland actually had a larger army than Germany at the time it was invaded but nobody could've anticipated the Blitzkrieg tactics the Germans used. Communications were cut and Polish units were isolated. Is this true? Did Poland have a larger (not necessarily more advanced) army than the Wehrmacht at the time?

I just have to ask whata hell this have to do with Sweden? XD ( thats my homecountry yes !)

Sommarkatze wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Is this gonna be another Sweden topic, where if Red doesn't believe Poland was any good then they weren't? I've read somewhere that Poland actually had a larger army than Germany at the time it was invaded but nobody could've anticipated the Blitzkrieg tactics the Germans used. Communications were cut and Polish units were isolated. Is this true? Did Poland have a larger (not necessarily more advanced) army than the Wehrmacht at the time?

I just have to ask whata hell this have to do with Sweden? XD ( thats my homecountry yes !)

somebody suggested Sweden faction AFAIK.

"I just have to ask whata hell this have to do with Sweden? XD ( thats my homecountry yes !)"

Discussion in the Operation Unthinkable thread about Sweden.

Killar wrote:

Paciat wrote:
7TP was the best Polish tank of 1939 but saing "could easily deal with german Panzer I, II and even IV" is wrong.

Not wrong from the 7PT gun´s perspective

Paciat wrote:
The main Polish armor were accually 2,5ton TK-3 and TKS tankettes equiped with 1 MG or rarelly a 20mm gun.

like the main german force was equipped with panzerI and II  :P

Its like comparing 1 T-34/85 with 3 Panthers. Can T-34 take them on?

Yes, it can lure them into a mine field.