Whats the dirty on Infantry AT weapons

How do to various infantry squad AT weapons stack up?

Accuracy, Penetration, vet, Rear Attack penetration modifier.

WMshreks
PEshreks
panzerfaust
Piats
Bazookas
RR
PTRD
etc

Rather than post all the stats which would take forever, I'll just post their relative strengths/weaknesses to each other.

Accuracy:
faust>PTRD>recoiless>WM/PEshrek>zook>PIAT

Fausts can't miss unless there's a rare anomaly. The rest have fairly similar accuracy. RRs have very low scatter which can translate into more accuracy. PIATs have to take into account the fact they're an indirect fire weapon which has to arc toward the target. This makes them rather inaccurate but gives them the unique ability to fire over shot blocking objects.

Damage:
WMshrek(120)>PIAT(90+extra vs heavies)>Zook(75+extra vs heavies)>PEshrek(105)>faust(75+extra vs heavies)>recoiless(62.5)>PTRD(30+extra vs heavies)

PIATs, PTRDs and zooks get great damage bonuses against P4s, Panthers and Tigers (1.5-1.6). Fausts get a similar but smaller bonus vs Allied tanks.

Penetration (on average):
faust>recoiless>WM/PEshrek>PTRD(same pen. as PIAT/zook but better deflection mod)>PIAT=zook

Faust has practically guaranteed penetration against almost all vehicles. Only IS-2/3s, Pershings and SU-85 with cage armour can deflect a faust. RRs have very high penetration, with 100% vs most vehicles/tanks and ~75% against Panthers/Skirted tanks. All weapons on the list deal 0.15 damage when they fail to penetrate except the PTRD which does 0.5 damage.

Fire rate:
PTRD>PIAT>WM/PEshrek=zook=recoiless>faust

PTRDs fire very quickly compared to the other options. Faust is obviously limited by the ability cooldown. The rest are practically equal with PIATs being slightly faster.

Last edited July 12, 2011 at 1:58 PM by GodlikeDennis

Any idea why the Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite Panzerschrecks have different stats? And how do you tell the difference between them when they are lying on the ground or have have been recovered?

I don't think there is a way to tell the difference. They're different I assume because Relic thinks offensive vet on PGs makes up the deficit.

WH veterancy doesn't increase the Grens/Storms firepower then?

No. Wehr vet just gives health regen, elite armour and extra health for grens/storms at vet1/2/3 respectively.

Last edited July 12, 2011 at 1:59 PM by GodlikeDennis

schreks are the kings of AT

everything else are just its humble subjects

Thanks guys!
Are there any penalties associated with picking up another factions ATs?

Don't think so. Aside from losing a weapon, or 2-3 squad members if it's a team-weapon, i'm pretty sure there aren't any penalties. But hey, free gun! Who could argue with that? ;D

I just found out that PE shreks that are dropped turn into Wehr shreks on the ground. PE shreks take up 4 weapon slots (PGs have 5) while WM shreks take up only 2. Therefore, a PE squad can pick up 2 of his dropped shreks but can only build 1 on himself.

Verrry Interesting. It makes me think keeping an un-upgraded vetted PG available to pick up those WM/Shreks. What a 68 damage bonus/recovered WM/Shrek?  And the possibility of obtaining 4 of them! Sounds like a balance issue to me. Perhaps a little tweek to change the PE shrek to a Shrek(b) might be in order. VCoH rules not withstanding.

A question comes to mind. The "call-in the Vets" option available in OF campaigns allow a Vet.x squad to be equipped with 1 or 2 shreks and or MG42s. If a PEShrek occupies 4 weapon slots, how does this work?

Last edited July 31, 2011 at 12:35 PM by Otto 213

The veteran units in the campaign are those you have leveled yourself in the previous mission I believe. So in that mission you may have picked up some shreks from the ground which are ALWAYS WM shreks. In any case, PGs can get multiple shreks as well if they go Tank Hunter doctrine. I assume the double AT efforts unlock changes PE shreks to only occupy 2 slots.

I'm not sure what you mean by getting 4 shreks on a squad. You can still only get a maximum of 2 because PG squads (number of men is irrelevant) have 5 weapon slots. They can however, attain 4-5 bazookas or BARs since they only take up 1 weapon slot each.

GodlikeDennis wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by getting 4 shreks on a squad. You can still only get a maximum of 2 because PG squads (number of men is irrelevant) have 5 weapon slots. They can however, attain 4-5 bazookas or BARs since they only take up 1 weapon slot each.

There was a screen shot in one of the posts showing a VG squad with 4 Bazookas and a one man Amis Bazooka in ! retreat.  :-[ .

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I just found out that PE shreks that are dropped turn into Wehr shreks on the ground. PE shreks take up 4 weapon slots (PGs have 5) while WM shreks take up only 2. Therefore, a PE squad can pick up 2 of his dropped shreks but can only build 1 on himself.

Again referring to OF Vets is it safe to assume an MG42 occupies only one weapons slot?

How many weapon slots do Sov weapons upgrades take up? Thanks.

A team play tactic/exploit occurs to me. Arm a WM Gren w/2shreks. Support with an un-upgraded PG to pick-up dropped shrecks. IIRC when Grens are reinforced they are resupplied with 2 shreks?

Last edited July 31, 2011 at 1:13 PM by Otto 213

There are different types of "heavy weapon" in this game. Heavy weapons like MP44s or Thompsons must be upgraded on the squad and still take up weapon slots, but they cannot be dropped and are reinforced with the squad. Other types, such as Shreks or DP-28s take up weapon slots, are droppable and cannot be reinforced onto the squad. Once dropped, a weapon is removed from the squad loadout.

LMG42s take up 2 weapon slots like shreks. The only droppable heavy weapons that take up 1 slot are BARs, bazookas, Brens and DP-28s (AFAIK). I'm only assuming DP-28s take 1 weapon slot because they're based on the Bren.

I don't know for sure but this is my guess for Soviet heavy weapons:
Minesweeper          2
Flamethrower        2
DP-28 (both kinds) 1
PPSh (both kinds)  1
PPS-43                  1
PTRD                    2
Guard SVT            1
SVT sniper            1

Sniper rifles are counted as heavy weapons for whatever reason. The others take up 4 slots so I guess the Sov one does too. EDIT: I think it actually only takes 1.

Last edited July 31, 2011 at 2:09 PM by GodlikeDennis

Otto wrote:
There was a screen shot in one of the posts showing a VG squad with 4 Bazookas and a one man Amis Bazooka in ! retreat.  :-[ .

5 ;)

You think that's cool? Conscripts can potentially pick up 8 BARs or DP-28s :P.

@pariah, @GLD:  ::) ;D .

GodlikeDennis wrote:I don't know for sure but this is my guess for Soviet heavy weapons:
Minesweeper        2
Flamethrower        2 -SIng 6 weapon slots (2ROK) ?DP-28 (both kinds) 1
PPSh (both kinds) 12 -Strelky 2 weapon slots (6 PPSh or 2 DPs)
PPS-43              12 -CS has 2 w. slots (can pick up shrek)
PTRD                  2 -NI have 3 weapon slots
Guard SVT          14 -SGds have 5 weapon slots available
SVT sniper            4 -2m squad has 4 weapon slots ?

Sniper rifles are counted as heavy weapons for whatever reason. The others take up 4 slots so I guess the Sov one does too.

Assumed data to supplement yours.

Last edited July 31, 2011 at 2:14 PM by Otto 213

The data I gave was per weapon, not per package. I dunno how to look up how many slots a weapon takes up but I can see how many a squad has which we can interpret data from:

Conscripts    8
Strelky        7 (PPSh takes 1 each, DP-28 could be 1 or 2 because you can pick at least one other 2 slot weapon after upgrading. Red flag might take 1?)
Guards        4 (SVT is 1 each, Guard DP-28 is 1)
Ingenery/Sturmovie 5 (Minesweeper is 1, ROK is 2?)
THs            4 (PTRD is 2)
NI              4
Mechanics    4
CS              5 (PPS-43 is 1)
Partisans      4 (MP-40/PPSh is 1 each) They can pick up 1 more 1 slot weapon)

I amended the sniper SVT data. I think it's 1 slot. Either way, slot numbers is independent of squad size. For example, PGs always have 5 slots regardless of whether they have either 3 or 4 men in the squad.

Last edited July 31, 2011 at 2:23 PM by GodlikeDennis

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I just found out that PE shreks that are dropped turn into Wehr shreks on the ground. PE shreks take up 4 weapon slots (PGs have 5) while WM shreks take up only 2. Therefore, a PE squad can pick up 2 of his dropped shreks but can only build 1 on himself.

Oh really! That was supposed to be fixed by Relic on 2.602 :o.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I just found out that PE shreks that are dropped turn into Wehr shreks on the ground. PE shreks take up 4 weapon slots (PGs have 5) while WM shreks take up only 2. Therefore, a PE squad can pick up 2 of his dropped shreks but can only build 1 on himself.

Sounds like a good deal to me, because Wehr shrecks deal a bigger amount of damage.

Q: If you have conscripts and they pick up a gun(ex:bazooka), do they lose a rifle so to speak or do they now have 5 weapons firing?

Also, doesn't the PE shreck do more damage? Thats what the little numbers say next to the unit image.(Wher shreeck=+3, PE sherck=+4)

BTW:What does that Red flag he soviets hold do for you?

Fishhunterx wrote:
Also, doesn't the PE shreck do more damage? Thats what the little numbers say next to the unit image.(Wher shreeck=+3, PE sherck=+4)

BTW:What does that Red flag he soviets hold do for you?

Wehr Shrecks have a higher damage value, however I would have to look it up in order to tell you the exact values. The numbers next to the units are only for bloody noobs. They don't say anything about the units true values.

The flag bearer is included in the Red Banner Strelky, short RBS upgrade. With him, Strelky is able to sprint for a short amount of time. He is there because he's awesome.

He may make your units look cool 8) but you lose a gun don't you? Oh well ;D

Fishhunterx wrote:
He may make your units look cool 8) but you lose a gun don't you? Oh well ;D

That doen't matter because you are supplied with two possible weapon upgrades. IIRC 5 PPSHs OR 2 DP-28s.

Yeah the weapon upgrades make up for the removal of 1 rifle. The squad fire-up and hold gound abilities are dependent on the red flag guy being alive I think, unless we changed it :P.


The damage of the Wehr and PE shrek are in my analysis in the 2nd post. 120 Wehr, 105 PE.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Yeah the weapon upgrades make up for the removal of 1 rifle. The squad fire-up and hold gound abilities are dependent on the red flag guy being alive I think, unless we changed it :P.

You're correct. Snipe the Flag bearer and the abilities disappear.

Can't another guy just pick it up?

No, the flag is one of those undroppable, reinforceable items. You have to reinforce to get it back.

I don't think it should drop - Just go to another soldier. After all, it's the flag that's important, not the guy holding it, right?

pariah wrote:
I don't think it should drop - Just go to another soldier. After all, it's the flag that's important, not the guy holding it, right?

He's more of a flag bearer instead of a trooper. I guess he's specially trained to have it and the others are more focused on killing  :P

Cranialwizard wrote:

pariah wrote:
I don't think it should drop - Just go to another soldier. After all, it's the flag that's important, not the guy holding it, right?

He's more of a flag bearer instead of a trooper. I guess he's specially trained to have it and the others are more focused on killing  :P

It's such a hard task to hold a flag and constantly point it at the enemy.. ;D
He could be trained to poke the fascists with it!

Once again, Halo-style. ;D

MaxiKing6 wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:

pariah wrote:
I don't think it should drop - Just go to another soldier. After all, it's the flag that's important, not the guy holding it, right?

He's more of a flag bearer instead of a trooper. I guess he's specially trained to have it and the others are more focused on killing  :P

It's such a hard task to hold a flag and constantly point it at the enemy.. ;D
He could be trained to poke the fascists with it!

Thinking of that he could do it crazy style. Sharpen the end of the pole and launch himself at the enemy. Should work like a bayonet I suppose, plunge right into the facist's body and keep moving xD

Cranialwizard wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Yeah the weapon upgrades make up for the removal of 1 rifle. The squad fire-up and hold gound abilities are dependent on the red flag guy being alive I think, unless we changed it :P .

You're correct. Snipe the Flag bearer and the abilities disappear.

The same thing happens to the abilities with Sharpshooter and CS. When the major dies his abilities are kaput. What happens when the CS bodyguard dies?

Otto wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Yeah the weapon upgrades make up for the removal of 1 rifle. The squad fire-up and hold gound abilities are dependent on the red flag guy being alive I think, unless we changed it :P .

You're correct. Snipe the Flag bearer and the abilities disappear.

The same thing happens to the abilities with Sharpshooter and CS. When the major dies his abilities are kaput. What happens when the CS bodyguard dies?

I suppose his fighting efficiency would decrease :)

Nah I don't think they lose any abilities, unless they lose the ability to throw molotovs.