Rockets

hey guys
i always thought that wernher von braun invented the rockets. how come the russians have the katyusha since they are shooting rocket-like stuff?  ???

The Chinese invented the rocket...

He did not invent the rockets, but contribute to improve rocket technology ;D. He was a genius.

The germans have their own. Nebelwerfer and the tremendous V1 rocket! :D

the soviets did a lot of experimentation on rockets and even made prototype missiles similar to the V1 during the war

interesting topic i found on the subject
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=83521

QuoteAs for the Soviets. I found some short info from the "Space encyclopedia" that Soviet engineers founded the research design office of jet propulsion (so called GIRD, head S. Korolev - the future famous designer of space missiles and spaceships) in 1931 (Moscow). Soviets developed near ten liquid-propellant missile engines, experimental rockets and rocket gliders in early 1930s. In 1933 the first Soviet missile with liquid-propellant engine (fuel - special gasoline + liquid oxygen) was tested (GIRD-09 missile, designer - famous engineer Tikhonravov) and serially produced with more powerful engine as experimental ground missile (6 copies of GIRD-13 missile, 20 kg weight, 1.8 m length, engine with tractive force 637 N, speed 275 m/s, 1.5-5 km ceiling, had parachute). Also Soviets tested missile GIRD-X with liquid-propellant engine in 1933 (fuel - spirit; 29.5 kg weight; 2.2 m length; engine OR-2 with tractive force 687 N; speed 675 m/s; 5.5 km theoretical ceiling, but practical was less). Those experimental missiles looked like the future "Katyusha" missiles - they had tail unit. Also Gas Dynamics Laboratory (GDL) in Leningrad (established in 1921-1924 with the army encouragement and worked at first on light powder missiles for the mortars) developed several light missiles and engines (fuel - kerosene and nitric acid). In 1933 the Missile Research Institute was established (RNII), united GIRD and GDL together. The chied engineer of RNII was military engineer G. Langemak (was repressed and killed in 1937 as many other missile engineers) with the main research subject "Development of missile artillery for ground, air and navy forces".

Photo of GIRD-09 missile (1933): http://www.informatics.org/museum/russi ... /gird9.jpg
Take-off of the GIRD-09 missile (1933): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/8-5.jpg
GIRD-X missile (1933): http://www.russianspaceweb.com/gird_rocket10_2.jpg (museum copy)

Soviet Army was interested in such constructions and the chief of the army equipment marshal Tukhachevsky (which understood the important role of missiles for the army and helped to establish Missile Research Institute) ordered to develop an experimental missile, which should take off upright as ballistic missile and then glided as cruise missile. In parallel S. Korolev worked on the experimental artillery shell with simple ramjet inside (project 08, fuel - white phosphorus). The first Soviet cruise missile RNII-07 was successfully tested in 1935 (flying wing scheme; weight 35 kg; length 2 m; speed 686 m/s; engine 02 with tractive force 834 N; ceiling 4.6 km; range 3.4 km); next year and later Soviets tested many different small experimental cruise and ballistic missiles with liquid-propellant engines, ramjets and mixed engines. Several accidents with missile engines during the flights happened, but the whole tests were quite successful.

The engineers from RNII developed the famous "Katyusha" unguided missiles RS-82 and RS-132 in 1936-1937, those missiles were also tested as the weapon for the fighters.
Soviet missile engineering in 1940-1941 was at the same stage than German missile engineering in 1940-1941, but after the beginning of the German-Soviet war Soviets switched their attention to unguided missiles "Katyusha" (the best unguided missiles that time) and their modifications for fighters/ground attack airplanes, also to experimental rocket and jet fighters.

QuoteSoviets also developed high-altitide missiles in 1930s (several models were built by design office of jet propulsion - GIRD and avaition department of scientific and techical association - AviaVNITO). AviaVNITO missile was based on quite large missile GIRD-05 with the most powerful liquid-propellant engine 12k (2940 N, 4 tanks with spirit and liquid oxygen, working time 21 s) and was equipped with parachute and altimeter. That high-altitude missile (97 kg, 3.23 m, 950 m/s) was tested in 1936-1937, using 48 m high stationary launcher, and reached 10.4 km altitude.
Photo of AviaVNITO missile: http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/8-6.jpg (1936)
and http://www.russianspaceweb.com/gird_rockets_2.jpg (museum copy)

Also Soviet stratosphere committee developed and tested the first in the world two-stage rocket R-3 (first stage was equipped with powder accelerator engine 1160 N, the second - with direct-flow jet engine with aluminium/magnesium as the fuel, 235 N. Engineer - I. Merkulov: the future famous designer of jet engines). R-3 two-stage missiles (13 kg, 1.6 m, 1200 m/s) were serially produced (16 copies) in 1939 and reached 9 km altitude.
Photo of R-3 take-off (1939): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/6-19.jpg
Blueprints of R-3 two-stage missile: http://bob-***.narod.ru/dobr/nw2.jpg

The projects of small stratosphere missiles (ceiling 50-100 km), equipped with gyroscopes, automatic filming equipment and radio transmitters, were abandoned after the beginning of the war.
Blueprints of R-05 missile (project, 55 kg, 2.25 m, 50 km):
http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/6-25.jpg
Blueprints of two-stage R-10 missile (project, 100 kg, 1113 m/s, 100 km, infra-red rays guiding):
http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/6-28.jpg

Missile RLA-100 should have weight 400 kg, ceiling up to 100 km and powerful (3000 N) engine and it was built in part, but the work also was stopped.

Also I found a quite interesting site about Soviet missiles, including of preWWII-WWII period http://www.russianspaceweb.com/rockets.html The site contains quite interesting info about German rocketry of WWII-period also.

Photo of the Soviet experimental two-stage missile R-3 (16 copies, 1939)
is from http://www.rtc.ru/encyk/bibl/golovanov/doroga/353.jpg

QuoteI found recently a very interesting info about first Soviet guided missiles, designed as surface-to-surface or surface-to-air missiles.
Soviet Missile Research Institute (RNII) developed in 1936-1937 small missiles "06/II" and ANIR-5 with automatic gyroscope (successfully tested during several flights) and cruise missile "216" with spirit-oxygen engine and automatic gyroscope (also successfully tested, 4 flights were made). The parachute was opened on reaching the maximal altitude (gyroscope control). Also many small testing unguided cruise missiles "48" with powder engines were built.
Drawing of guided missile ANIR-5 (6 were build and tested): http://epizodsspace.testpilot.ru/bibl/izist/6-21.jpg

Then the powerful long-range cruise missile 212 with nitrate-kerosene engine and improved automatic gyroscope apparatus (two gyroscopes, aneroid, altimeter, control system; three stabilization planes) was built and tested in 1937-1939 (engineer -S. Korolev). The fuel tanks of the missile located inside the wings, but the tanks with oxygen - in the hull. The launcher represented the sloping railway with powder accelerator.
Specifications: weight 210 kg (including 30 kg of explosive); 3,16 m (length) x 3,06 (wings) m; engine with power 1470 N (working time 80 seconds); speed 380 m/s; range 50-80 km. This is a quite successful Soviet analogue of the German V-1 flying bomb, which appeared much earlier than V-1, but remained experimental.

S.Korolev together with M. Dryazgov (RNII designer office) also developed and built in 1938 the first anti-aircraft guided missiles: 217/I (aircraft-type scheme, designer S. Korolev) and 217/II (missile scheme with 4 small wings, designer M. Dryazgov). They were guided by special searchlight beam or infra-red rays, and had telecontrol apparatus together with special rudders on the end of the wings. Those missiles were successfully tested in 1939 during several flights. Also engineers from RNII developed guided ballistic missile 609/II, guided AA air-to-air missile 301 (it was guided by radio from TB-3 bomber, successfully tested in 1938, 3.2m, 200 kg, 10 km range), also cruise missiles air-to-surface for heavy bombers - but WWII stopped the work and all missile engineers started to develop and improve famous "Katyushas". In 1939 the Missile Research Institute was renamed to Research Institute No. 3 of the Ministry of Ammunition.
Specifications (for 217/I): weight 102,5 kg; 2.27m x 2.195m; speed 280 m/s; vertical range - 3 km and horizontal range 6.8 km.
Specifications (for 217/II): weight 120 kg, 1,865m x 0,785m; engine with power 1813 N (working time 3,5 seconds); speed 320 m/s; vertical range - 3.27 km and horizontal range 19 km (theoretically, practical was less).

Also cruise missiles 216 were tested in 1935-1936.

and some pictures
GIRD-X missile

RNII-07 cruise missile

212 guided cruise missile

Last edited June 28, 2011 at 8:15 PM by robotnik

@ Robotnik: A most impressive piece of research!  :) :) :)
Robert H Goddard (USA), is considered to be "The Father of Modern Rocketry". He received a patent in 1914 for a rocket propelled by Liquid Fuel. He launched His first successful LF rocket on March 16 1926. He and his team launched 34 rockets by 1941. Goddard like Walter Christie was not enthusiastically embraced in America. The young Soviet regime however saw the potential in the liquid fuel rocket, and the revolutionary Christie Suspension system. Although not the inventors the Soviets were very quick to develop and implement these Ideas into the Katyusha and the T34. A similar case can be made for the M1938 120mm mortar system which is considered to be a French design.

Goddard successfully applied three-axis control, gyroscopes and steerable thrust to rockets, all of which allow rockets to be controlled effectively in flight.

NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland was established on May 1, 1959, Two years after the flight of Sputnik.

go soviet rocket go!  :D

Sommarkatze wrote:
The germans have their own. Nebelwerfer and the tremendous V1 rocket! :D

Technically speaking (in Military terms) the V1 is not a rocket but a missile because it is guided.

Other then that, like others said, Goddard invented the liquid fuel rocket which made it possible to have bigger and more powerfull rockets.

that last picture looks fabricated, with the rocket sitting on its belly on rails

soviet propoganda or concept art

RedGuard wrote:
that last picture looks fabricated, with the rocket sitting on its belly on rails

soviet propoganda or concept art

Don't know about that one, look at the V1 launch-ramp.

Tico_1990 wrote:
Technically speaking (in Military terms) the V1 is not a rocket but a missile because it is guided.

I wasn't aware there was a difference... ???

pariah wrote:

Tico_1990 wrote:
Technically speaking (in Military terms) the V1 is not a rocket but a missile because it is guided.

I wasn't aware there was a difference... ???

Generaly speaking, in military terms it is a missile if it is guided and a rocket if it is unguided. There are exceptions though in the naming of some weapon systems.

Thanks. I figured that since the space shuttles are rockets, i didn't think it mattered... :-\

V1s were "flying bombs" not missiles.

Seeme wrote:
V1s were "flying bombs" not missiles.

That's what they were named back then. Their type though, is a (guided) missile. It is rather a must for a bomb to not have it's own propulsion, hence, the V1 can't be a bomb in the technical sense of the word.

Tico_1990 wrote:

Seeme wrote:
V1s were "flying bombs" not missiles.

That's what they were named back then. Their type though, is a (guided) missile. It is rather a must for a bomb to not have it's own propulsion, hence, the V1 can't be a bomb in the technical sense of the word.

No, missels have rocket engines, V1 had a jet engine.
A bomb is an explosive weapon detonated by impact, proximity to an object, a timing mechanism, or other means.
Checked in the dictionary. 8)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V1_flying_bomb

type: guided missile.

Also in military terms, a bomb is not powered, aka, does not have any type of engine. Given the engine on the V1, it can't be a bomb in the technical sense of the word

The Buzz bomb was propelled by an engine that worked on the principle of a jet engine. The original "jet engine" was developed by a Greek chap who lived in Syracuse during the fourth or fifth century BC. It was powered by steam. The V1 was powered by a spark plug that fired by compressiion. I'm not sure whether that makes it a diesel or an Otto  :D engine. When the spark plug ignited the vapor propellant the rapid acelleration of the fuel caused it to scream through baffles. Hence the intermitant Buzz Saw like sound that characterized the weapon. The V1 was originally dropped or launched from bombers which may explain the "bomb" terminology. THe RAF was good at shooting down German bombers so the Luftwaffe switched to a ground launch system.
A mortar shell is technically a bomb. It is launched by a solid fuel propulsion system.

IIRC the wings of the V1 were constructed of plywood!