Flak 36

Something i never could figure out: Why was the Flak 36 used as an anti-air weapon? It seems so wrong for that role - Slow turning & slow firing; How does that make for effective anti-air?! ???

I would think the Flak 38 would be far better...

For one, the Flak 36 (as well as the Flak 38 for that matter) used shrapnel shots, so total accuracy wasn't required, also, when firing in aa mode, they'd generally be pointing towards the sky and to the general direction of the attacker. Thirdly, they'd be deployed in larger numbers, creating a carpet of shrapnel in the air, in short, they didn't need to be able to track high level bombers perfectly.
Which brings me to my last point, the hight at which the bombers flew means that their displacement was easily kept up by the Flak 36.

The Flak 36 was designed for AA use. At the time no one considered such a heavy caliber gun would be necessary to knock out Char Bs and Matildas! They were found to be effective against Soviet Tanks in Spain in 1936.
The 88mm had a range of about 22,000 vertical feet and could be wired into sophisticated fire control systems for day and nighttime use. The 20mm and 37mm AA weapons couldn't compare when used against high flying aircraft.
The Primary Ammunition for AA use was HE. Concussion would damage fragile equipment and change the aerodynamic characteristics of aircraft in the vicinity of the blast causing a loss of control.The Shrapnel effect was secondary.

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/88mm-flak-series-flugabwehrkanone.htm

Last edited June 26, 2011 at 4:06 AM by Otto 213

In short Flak 88 was a high altitude AA gun. It was designed when there were no dive bombers or any other effective low altitude close air support planes. It was perfect to shoot down lumbering bombers like

or

What a cute plane<3 Looks like a stupid retard dog or something<3
Also the flak36 have a very psycologic effect. Imagine D-day as a Airborne. Jumping out in the dark surrounded by shrapnel fire ¨snakes¨ lines from the flaks :P

Well, that's most interesting. Thanks, guys.

I'd rather just have the flak 38  :P

At Red Guard: I'd rather have a Wirbelwind. But I'd Settle for a Bergetiger with a Flak 36 mounted on it. ;)

Last edited June 27, 2011 at 12:33 AM by Otto 213

I'd rather have a fighter plane. ;D

Wasserfall rockets ftw! :P

Btw, another good reason: Flak means Flugzeug abwehr kanonnen (I haven't written German for years so the spelling might be of), translated it means something like: Aircraft defense gun, or anti air gun.

Yeah, i thought it might be an abbreviation. I don't know much German, but i figured the "Fl" would be "flug" or however you spell it, since that means to fly, or something of the sort.

Flugabehrkanone.

Recht. ;D

Aircountercanon

Is this the right translation? :D word for word

Antiflightcannon that would be appropriate ;)

I think "luft" is "air", isn't it? Luftwaffe = Airpower/weapon? :-\

Yeah, but we're talking about Flug = flight here. ;) Anyway, you're right about Luftwaffe.

I know - Just questioning what walki said. ;)

Most LArge caliber AA weaopns like the 90mm and 88mm were the only guns as well that were able to reach high altitube bombers, which were also slower flying than fighters and easier targets

they were also guided by radar as well, making them rather accurate, and i know the 90mm's were later computer directed as well, dont know about the 88's though

Remember that rotation speed isn't that important against aircraft several kilometers away, since you will not perceive them to be moving very fast from your point of view. What matters against distant, fast moving targets is accuracy and shell velocity.

ONE point u had forget about the 88: When 88 were used in anti air role u had to use a battery or more for fighting against air targets. A single 88 isnt an effective weapon but a battery out of 6 guns can fire a lot of shells and can dominate a special quadrant of the sky. It was an enormous firepower. Think a lot of crews were feared when they saw all those detonations clouds of the 88s.

The Flugabwehrkanone is the anti aircraft gun. xD
I wont help to translate this word by word, so save your time. This translation isnt as interesting as the story of the 88 XDD

Last edited June 28, 2011 at 7:44 AM by Lord Rommel

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Remember that rotation speed isn't that important against aircraft several kilometers away, since you will not perceive them to be moving very fast from your point of view. What matters against distant, fast moving targets is accuracy and shell velocity.

I was thinking more of when the plane flies over/past you, you will need to track it quickly. I figured that because that's when it's closest to you, that's when you have the best chance of hitting it.

And Lord Rommel, i understand it enough. ;) I think word-for-word translations are pretty pointless in many cases, anyway.

pariah wrote:
And Lord Rommel, i understand it enough. ;) I think word-for-word translations are pretty pointless in many cases, anyway.

:D Jeah! someone with the same opinion here  :D

robotnik wrote:
Most  Large caliber AA weaopns like the 90mm and 88mm were the only guns as  well that were able to reach high altitube bombers, which were also  slower flying than fighters and easier targets +1

they were also guided by radar as well, making them rather accurate, -1
and i know the 90mm's were later computer directed as well, dont know about the 88's though

The attachment:
Gun was part of a search light AA unit. You will notice the many heavy,  multi-circuit plugs wired into the gun.Any number of guns could be  connected and wired back to the gunnery command center. This center  consisted of a generator trailer, a searchlight trailer and a targeting  device. All guns in the battery were wired into this central guidance  unit

FlaK attack ;D

Hot off the airwaves: THe city of Hamburg is converting the foundations of an old Flak battery to a solar energy plant. They are calling it the energy bunker.

Otto wrote:
Hot off the airwaves: THe city of Hamburg is converting the foundations of an old Flak battery to a solar energy plant. They are calling it the energy bunker.

You mean one of the Flaktowers? Nice :)

Jeah. There are a lot more ideas for all this Flak-Towers that had survived the war.
A small gun tower at the town of Lübeck was transferred into a medieval looking tower with an italian restaurant. An other tower was transferred into a climbing park. And so on.
That is much cheaper than destroying this bunkers.
Some years ago they had destroyed the zoo bunker in my town. It was a disaster for the town and the destruction company...
They need much longer for destroy this tower than it was planed. They need much more explosives than it was planed.
And at the end the costs were exploded xDDD
Out of my view it is cool when a town found a nice way to deal with this bunkers  ;D

The Bunkers in Hamburg were also supposed to be destroyed, but they failed, even with loads of explosives. One of them was the postwar base of the German NWDR (Nordwestdeutscher Rundfunk > Northern/Western German broadcasting studios, NDR today), today there is a disco and you can enjoy yourself on the roof of the bunker.
I hope they stay because they belong to the city also as a memorial.
Nice to hear of them being converted into 'energy bunkers' though. :P

Last edited July 6, 2011 at 1:32 PM by MaxiKing6

Very interesting! I know the Sub pens in Brittany were virtually indestructable but they were very thick. Do you have any Idea how thick the concrete in the Flaktowers is?

The  concrete Martello Towers on the USA East Coast, (used for Anti submarine warfare in WWI and WWII) are still in good shape. THe West Coast coastal defense structures have virtually disintegrated.

Last edited July 6, 2011 at 2:03 PM by Otto 213

Wall: 3,5 metres.
Roof: 5 metres.

Thanks. THe Martello towers are less than a meter thick, class AAA, concrete 3700 psi compressive strength in 28 days.

haha dual flak, this gonna be the most OP unit if it on CoH ;D

Aw man, that looks so fucking cool! Was it used in world war 2?

That's What I call a knife.  8)

It was 12.8 cm Flak 40 and in picture is the twin version, was used in WW2! ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.8_cm_FlaK_40

stavka88 wrote:
It was 12.8 cm Flak 40 and in picture is the twin version, was used in WW2! ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.8_cm_FlaK_40

Nice. So Germans actually had a gun that could fire at B-29.

that would have been a nice reward unit for the 88. Was it even used as a ATgun other than in the Jagdtiger?

Dual version is very hard hard to shoot a vehicle but maybe the original one can cut the sherman like butter ;D

Paciat wrote:

stavka88 wrote:
It was 12.8 cm Flak 40 and in picture is the twin version, was used in WW2! ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.8_cm_FlaK_40

Nice. So Germans actually had a gun that could fire at B-29.

Did the Amis actually deploy B-29s to Europe?
@Stavka88 please  post a link so I can look at the Specs.

I only have the link about it in Wiki and it's very short, sorry dont have much details
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.8_cm_FlaK_40

stavka88 wrote:
I only have the link about it in Wiki and it's very short, sorry dont have much details
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12.8_cm_FlaK_40

Check German and Italian languages. They have a bit more info, that is if you can read it. Or you could punch it into google translate but that's highly inaccurate

stavka88 wrote:
Dual version is very hard hard to shoot a vehicle but maybe the original one can cut the sherman like butter ;D

The single barrel version weighed over 37,000 lbs. and required mounting in concrete. Wiki says they were only mounted in Flaktowers in Berlin, Hamburg and Vienna. No AT capability here, unless of course as a rewards unit for the Pantherthurm.
Of course there was a dual flak 36 mount proposed during the war  ;D , Flakzwilling 8.8 cm Auf Maus - with two 88 mm guns in a special turret. Sounds like a fancy fastfood berger don't it. :D

Killar wrote:
that would have been a nice reward unit for the 88. Was it even used as a ATgun other than in the Jagdtiger?

the 128mm flak is designed completely differently from the 128mm used the the jagdtiger, they used different propellent sizes, though the 128mm on the sturur emil is the same gun as the flak one