Ostheer Update 8: Veterancy

So, we have the last unknown part of Ostheer unveiled, Veterancy. Veterancy is a key part of any Company of Heroes army, making troops that survive longer being better. And Ostheer is no exception.

Ostheer has a different system than the other factions, however shares some basic principles. All troops in the Ostheer will gain veterancy in combat; by killing enemies. Infantry receive 'buffs' similar to the American and Russian Armies, however on top of this they also gain a temporary thing known as Blood Lust. Blood Lust is a short-term (10s~15s) change to stats, it's automatically activated, an indication that your squad have some lust for blood. Each time they get Blood Lust, the duration is lower to indicate that the lust is disappearing. Blood Lust has it's advantages, but at the same time it's disadvantages. Blood Lust pushes the squad to ignore all risks; dealing more damage at the cost of accuracy and allowing them to take more damage before being mortally wounded. However while the squad becomes much harder to suppress; it's lack of care for it's own safety makes it an easy target for enemy soldiers.

Meanwhile tank veterancy at first glance can be seen to reflect the Panzer Elite's veterancy, but in truth it's a lot more specific. When your thanks gain veterancy you receive the option to level up one of 3 specific crew members. Giving them unique abilities (such as HE rounds for some tanks) or passive buffs (such as increased weapon range or movement speed). In addition, vehicles also get a one-time use ability with every veterancy level.

The "Veterancy" rank "Ace" (Veterancy in quotation marks because it's not viewed as Veterancy internally) allows your tanks and marksman (only they can obtain it) to go one of two ways. One way is normally just an addition to the unit, in Panther's case increased offensive stats and in Marksman's case is the addition of some off-map artillery/smoke barrages. The other way is to twist around the gameplay, Panther's case is that it becomes a Command Tank, increasing stats of nearby friendly tank, and the Marksman can completely take a different turn, making him a proper sniper.


Landser (Example Infantry):




* Recruit (Default)
- Decreased stats.


* Regular (Normal / "Veterancy 1")
- Normal stats.
- Medic Pack that is usable in friendly territory only.



* Blood Lust 1 (Lasts 15 Seconds)
- Increased Squad's Health.
- Increased Squad's Damage.
- Decreased Suppression Taken of the Squad.
- Decreased Squad's Accuracy.
- Increased Accuracy of Enemies firing at the Squad.


* Blood Lust 2
- Similar to Blood Lust 1.


* Blood Lust 3 
- Similar to Blood Lust 1.


* Veteran ("Veterancy 2")
- Stat(s) Increased
- Medic Pack can now be used anywhere.
- Extra StG44 or MP40 (depends on initial Sergeant upgrade)


* Senior ("Veterancy 3")
- Stat(s) Increased
- Sprint Ability
- Upgrade for one LMG OR one Panzerbüchse (AT-Rifle).


Elite Units (such as Brandenburgers):
* Regular veterancy on start, does not gain Blood Lust.


Marksman:
* Recruit (Default)
- Decreased stats.
* Regular (Normal / "Veterancy 1")
- Normal stats.
- Medic Pack that is usable in friendly territory only.
* Veteran ("Veterancy 2")
- Stat(s) Increased
- Medic Pack can now be used anywhere.
* Senior ("Veterancy 3")
- Stat(s) Increased
* Ace
- Forward Observer (Artillery Barrage, Smoke Barrage and Box Barrage)
- or
- Sniper Ace (Sniper Camouflage, Best Counter-Detection, Slowest Camouflaged movement; receives a Scoped-K98; explosives; removes Hide ability)


Panther (Example Tank):
* Rookie (Default)
- Decreased stats.
* Regular ("Veterancy 1")
- Normal stats.
- Repair Critical Ability - Single Use
* Veteran ("Veterancy 2")
- Engine Overclock (Temporary Increased Movement Speed; Engine Burnout on end which results in decreased max speed and slower repairs) - Single Use
* Senior ("Veterancy 3")
- Critical Shot (Disable Turret of Target) - Single Use
* Ace
- Repair Critical and Engine Overclock available for unlimited usage, but with a munition cost. Engine Burnout no longer causes the tank to receive repairs at a slower rate.
- Stats Increased
- One of the following two upgrades:
- - Command Tank (Buffs nearby friendly vehicles)
- - or
- - Tank Hunter (Offensive stats increased)


Additionally, each time your tank gain Veterancy, you can choose to level up one of three crew members (with the expectation of reaching "Ace", which isn't viewed as a Veterancy Rank).
* Loader
- Level 1: Decreased Loading Time.
- Level 2: Optional load HE (Hollow-Charge for Brummbär).
- Level 3: APCR replace AP (Stielgranate 42 ability for Brummbär).
* Gunner
- Level 1: Increased Weapon Accuracy.
- Level 2: Increased Weapon Range.
- Level 3: Increased Chance of Critical Hits (eg. Destroyed Engine).
* Commander
- Level 1: Increased Sight Range and Turret Traverse.
- Level 2: Decreased Incoming Accuracy.
- Level 3: Increased Damage.
* Driver (Replaces Commander Crew Member on commander-less and turret-less such as Marder 2 and Brummbär)
- Level 1: Increased Moving Speed and De-/Acceleration.
- Level 2: Increased Turning Speed.
- Level 3: Decreased Incoming Accuracy and Increased Health.

Last edited June 15, 2011 at 8:49 PM by Rizz

Finally, some pictures of OH. But I guess I'm right when I say that the icons aren't final, right?

Wow, very interesting and unique veterancy system!  :D

Yes! you are the best! I love the amount of personalization because I can play the way I want to. Ostheer is almost ready!

MaxiKing6 wrote:
Finally, some pictures of OH. But I guess I'm right when I say that the icons aren't final, right?

AFAIK, yes they are.

The blood drop is an UI indicator, similar to PE ones, but this will last a few seconds.

The real vet indicator is, as you can see, the bar like.

Btw, I shall apologize for the crappy screenshots, i took them in hurry and somehow my game's resolution was screwed up :-\.

there is one think i dont realy check^^

after you get vet1 you get next blood lust 1-3 and then vet2 and 3? or did you get vet 1-3 and for spezial things you get blood lust?

in version one that would mean ostheer has 6 veterancy stages  :o

Reaching Veteracy step 1 > Blood lust 1
Reaching Veteracy step 2 > Blood lust 2
Reaching Veteracy step 3 > Blood lust 3

Blood lust is activated every time when a unit reaches a step of veterancy. 3 stages of veterancy, 4 for elite units.

Maxi, incorrect.

Vet 1 -> Blood Lust 1 -> Blood Lust 2 -> Blood Lust 3 -> Vet 2 -> Vet 3.

However we don't count Blood Lust has veterancy, it's just a temporary thing, unique thing.

So you never know when your squad will have blood lust, because its activated by itself.

What are the vet steps? senior after you killed 50 soldiers? :o

Last edited June 15, 2011 at 9:31 PM by Killar

Killar wrote:
What are the vet steps? senior after you killed 50 soldiers? :o

Balance will decide.

Killar wrote:
What is the difference between blood lust 1-3?

afaik its a timed ability and its activated by its own when gaining vet. Blood lust 1 will be active the longest time and BL3 the shortest.

What are the vet steps? senior after you killed 50 plp :o

There's no difference iirc, it's like if between vet1 and vet2 there were some sub vet.

E.G.
Vet1 -> 10 kills
Vet 2 -> 25 kills

But between vet 1 and vet 2:
Blood lust 1 -> 14 kills
Blood lust 2 -> 18 kills
Blood lust 3 -> 22 kills

As you can see, blood lust gives you a bonus, you can get that bonus up to three times, but instead of calling it just blood lust, it's enumerated to mark the proximity to vet 2 and to show you how many times you have used it. All Blood lust states last the same time, 15 seconds after earning it.

This looks very good, except for most units beginning as rookies. Most factions have rookie units, like conscripts, or volksgrenadiers. This seems just a bit strange to me. Besides that though, it looks great!  ;D

thx for explaining!

blood lust?  :o

this looks to be a balancing nightmare

Last edited June 15, 2011 at 10:15 PM by RedGuard

but we understand it right, blood lust is a thing thats activates by itselfs right? so you cant save it for later moments right?

I don't see how it would ;D... it's like and individual Brits' Heroic Charge but using the forementioned limitations.

@evilSpike
Correct.

but blood lust sounds very interesting
so if you see ahh blood lust comes soon you can start a push

This is amazing EF team.

Kinda pround that the "Ace"

Idea made it in.
Imo this status should be showed as well somehow, i created once some pictures for tanks, support units and infantry. Something that like could be placed ontop of the veterancy signs. It would fit i guess, since it refers to the orignial relic idea of displaying an ace  :)



anyways, Awesome vet system!



Best regards,
-V-

Last edited June 15, 2011 at 11:31 PM by Venoxxis

Nice pics Venoxis ;D... I would like to see them on OH ;D.

EHm.. I am terrible sorry and kind of embarrased. But.. could somebody explain for me how this work? XD I dont get it, blood lust and vet and extra singel abiletys do every singel unit? Help <3

Yeah, great pics, Venoxxis. Did you use Photoshop?

Sommarkatze wrote:
EHm.. I am terrible sorry and kind of embarrased. But.. could somebody explain for me how this work? XD I dont get it, blood lust and vet and extra singel abiletys do every singel unit? Help <3

its more or less easy^^
e.g.
you have a landser squad. this squad kills ~10 units then you get vet1. between vet one and vet2 is a gap of ~15 kills. and in this "window" of 15 kills are the "blood lust (1-3)" nano vets :-P

blood lust is not a real vet its a thing betwenn 2 stages of vet!
i will help you to push and compensates the missing vet2 in a duration of only 10-15sec.


@venoxxis
this looks realy great
i would also would like to see them on ostheer (should be shown as a mini icon over the vet)

Last edited June 15, 2011 at 11:58 PM by evilSpike

Owh, so its like a extra level of fun killing? :D

what? no  :o

it activates by itselfs and in this short time window it increased some stats but also decreased other stats.

i think it should help you to push back the hordes^^ but its not a free win^^

Hmm. Sounds complicated but yeah sure. Why not! :D

I think it operates something similar to Inspired Assault, right?

Thanks for clearing up the concept from the Donors Preview. Much clearer now. Blood Lust makes much more sense as a strictly vet1 phenominom. Do all non-elite infantry get blood lost or do they get different OTU abilities. Regarding Marksmen Ace. At present, (Sovs), if the major or spotter dies special abilities are greyed out, (n.a.), until reinforced. For Ostheer and Sovs for that matter when Sharpshooter "ace" dies" are the passive, ie camo abilities lost as well?

the way I understand it, is its activated after a certain amount of kills

I don't really like the name blood lust. It doesn't sound right for a WWII game. I'd expect something like that in a game like warcraft 3 or something. Perhaps if you called it something else like zeal or something like that. I just don't think blood lust suits very well. Otherwise I do like how you are trying to keep the vet system uniqe so keep up the good work.

Blood lust...hmmm...nice idea, hope that it will be balaced.

Versedhorison wrote:
I don't really like the name blood lust. It doesn't sound right for a WWII game. I'd expect something like that in a game like warcraft 3 or something. Perhaps if you called it something else like zeal or something like that. I just don't think blood lust suits very well. Otherwise I do like how you are trying to keep the vet system uniqe so keep up the good work.

It won't be refereed anywhere ingame, it's simple what we devs call it when discussing it.

Otto wrote:
Regarding Marksmen Ace. At present, (Sovs), if the major or spotter dies special abilities are greyed out, (n.a.), until reinforced. For Ostheer and Sovs for that matter when Sharpshooter "ace" dies" are the passive, ie camo abilities lost as well?

If the "Sharpshooter Ace" dies (I assume this is a sharpshooter that got "Ace" Veterancy and selected "Sniper Ace" as the improvement), he's dead. It's a one-man squad.

Last edited June 16, 2011 at 11:04 AM by Rizz

To the devs, this again looks like great work by you guys.

Without knowing any better, given it seems a large change, and that obviously balance is a tricky affair - do the devs think this will go through a set of alpha/beta/public/RC releases?

I'll add one more item, sadly 2.602 (I know this is not EF's fault) seems to have added a serious level of instability, drops, crashes and problems over 2.601 in my testing, and the crew I play with cite the same in their overall view. Do you think the addition of the Osteer will make this generic unstable level worse, or be unaffected? And is it worth seeing if THQ/Relic have an answer before dropping in the Osteer?

Ostheer will be extensively tested before release, we'll not release them prematurely and unbalanced as we did with the Soviets, first impressions are invaluable.

blackbishop wrote:
Nice pics Venoxis ;D... I would like to see them on OH ;D.

Thanks blackbishop :)

pariah wrote:
Yeah, great pics, Venoxxis. Did you use Photoshop?

I used a similiar software called gimp. Im not really familiar with photoshop, my father is working with it but yet i didnt use it ;)

evilSpike wrote:
[...]

@venoxxis
this looks realy great
i would also would like to see them on ostheer (should be shown as a mini icon over the vet)

Yes this is right what i think :)
for example like that:
  ->> ->> ->>

or to keep it smaler, something like


Regards,
-V-

Venoxxis wrote:
or to keep it smaler, something like

That's perfect. I'd beg the devs to include it, it makes vet3/vet4 unique and lets it differ clearly from the other steps of veterancy. Great job, Venoxxis!
PS: I hate Gimp..  :P

^^That's 'cause you're a gimp. ;D

Great work,  Venoxxis! This should totally be in the Ostheer!

That looks great and somehow similar to coho!

MaxiKing6 wrote:

Venoxxis wrote:
or to keep it smaler, something like

That's perfect. I'd beg the devs to include it, it makes vet3/vet4 unique and lets it differ clearly from the other steps of veterancy. Great job, Venoxxis!
PS: I hate Gimp..  :P

this one is perfect^^

Last edited June 16, 2011 at 7:01 PM by evilSpike

blackbishop wrote:
Nice pics Venoxis ;D... I would like to see them on OH ;D.

Me too!!!!!!!!  :D :D :D :D

I liked so much this unique and special vet system!!! Good work team!!!

But can we have another name for "Blood Lust"? This sounds so much like WoW or fantasy games, as if and Ostheer soldier was about to drop their weapon, get over from green cover and atack an Ranger Squad with a knife or a hammer.  :-\

SuperSoca wrote:
But can we have another name for "Blood Lust"? This sounds so much like WoW or fantasy games, as if and Ostheer soldier was about to drop their weapon, get over from green cover and atack an Ranger Squad with a knife or a hammer.  :-\

Thats a name only for discussion in forum. When it progress maybe another name can be found, something like "bravery"

Heroisim?

Inspiration?

Manliness?

Zeal?

Patriotisim?

Killar wrote:
"bravery"

"Blood Lust" is fine. There is no need for another name.

Manliness? Lol nice one Cranial :P.

Remember guys, this won't be referred ingame. It's just for discussion's sake on the forum and within the dev team. Call it whatever you want.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Remember guys, this won't be referred ingame. It's just for discussion's sake on the forum and within the dev team. Call it whatever you want.

Then Manliness it is.  ;D

yeah bloodlust has to go, I like chuck norris to replace it

BurroDiablo wrote:
Ostheer will be extensively tested before release, we'll not release them prematurely and unbalanced as we did with the Soviets, first impressions are invaluable.

+1
Btw ostheer is looks like more depth and longer play duration, becouse the load of options this faction has. It's damn RPG game now, but I like it. :)

So Manliness is the same every vet?

RedGuard wrote:
yeah bloodlust has to go, I like chuck norris to replace it

He is already ingame

Killar wrote:

RedGuard wrote:
yeah bloodlust has to go, I like chuck norris to replace it

He is already ingame

yes you can upgrade the kingtiger to chuck norris
he will kill a whole base with a roundhouse kick  ;D