1.40 Propaganda Doctrine

My compliments to the DevTeam on the overall improvement in the Doctrinal trees in 1.40. The Breakthrough Strategy is nearly perfect. Urban Combat was good to begin with but the 1.4.0 version reintroduced the boobytrap/Med Truck Bug and apparently CTD's when SU122 is used. Im sure this will be corrected.

The Propaganda Doctrine is mostly very, very good. Perhaps too good!
LHS: The Naval Infantry Squad is a wonder. Reminds be of the T90 before it got toned down. As is they are very good infantry. With the heavy weapons pack and molotov upgrade they are top notch: anti-infantry, antitank, antibuilding. I do have two kvetches. LMG's that suppress all infantry while on the run is too much. We are talking about early, non-elite infantry right? The other problem is they come in too early at 2CP. During two consecutive 2vs2 AI games both Sov factions built only NI after initial availabilty. Boring, boring, boring. I suspect that if some changes aren't made Strelky will all be sent to the Far East and none will appear in EF.

Most Call-in infantry doesn't appear till 3CP at least. Which brings us to The Red Tide. A great ability for the Sovs, properly used it is devastating, but it is available after only 4CP. - Too early. I'm glad the Katyuskas were moved to the LHS. Perhaps the LHS can be tweaked by changing the LHS CP costs to 3/3/3 or 3/2/4.

RHS: I have no use for Not One Step Back. (It seems like one of Hitler's decrees... foolish! Maybe it is just a demogogic response of dictators). Judging from the comments in the 1.4.0 trenches thread maybe NOSB should be deleted and replaced with Trenches as in 1.3.1. I haven't had the chance to use use the Zis field emplacement. What I've read in the threads indicates general dissatisfaction with its AT qualities. I am an advocate of HE/AP switches (with muni cost to change over) for ALL dual purpose gun emplacements. Both the ZIS and the Flak 36.

Finally GOW 2.0 is a big improvement. I need to learn to use it properly but I will use it, unlike GOW 1.0.

BTW: thank you, thank you, thank you for moving the MG emplacement to the standard build list.

Last edited June 8, 2011 at 9:10 PM by Otto 213

Well, we need to tweak Naval Infantry, that's for sure ;D. 3-2-4 seems fine.

About the ZiS-3, i think that could be added. But not for the Flak 88.

About the NOSB, well not every ability needs to be great :P. However that ability, along with For the Motherland and Stand your ground(DP-28) are on my list of "needs to be improved/reworked". Don't know if that will happen ^^.

not one step back was actually one of comrade stalins 'decrees' just sayin  :P

NI never impressed me, the reason they cost 2CP is so you can work them into builds similiar to stormtroopers and the infamous tier 3 blitz which lets you get storms at 2 CP and skip wehr tier 2
fyi storms are a lot stronger than NI

my colleague godlikeD agree with me on this issue as well(thats rare!) :) ;D

Yeah I think NI are best at 2cps. However, there's something just not right about them. Some people swear they're awesome, others say they're crap. I really have no idea what to do with them.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Yeah I think NI are best at 2cps. However, there's something just not right about them. Some people swear they're awesome, others say they're crap. I really have no idea what to do with them.

Let conscript go in melee and let NI support them with their SVT40/DP28, and see the ennemy infantry dying en masse. Vehicles? Molotovs, guy, molotovs!

RedGuard wrote:
not one step back was actually one of comrade stalins 'decrees' just sayin  :P

NI never impressed me, the reason they cost 2CP is so you can work them into builds similiar to stormtroopers and the infamous tier 3 blitz which lets you get storms at 2 CP and skip wehr tier 2
fyi storms are a lot stronger than NI

my colleague godlikeD agree with me on this issue as well(thats rare!) :) ;D

Tovarich, I hadn't considered the WM 2CP Stormtroopers. I know you have to push out a mortar HT when NI appears.  IMO the 2CP NI relegates Strelky to the waste bin of history. Even if the RBS upgrade cost is reduced NI allows earlier arrival of the Guards and Guards upgrade. Who will use Strelky then? With all respect to the Potemkin Tradition and the Heroic Guards this is a distinctly un-Soviet slap in the face to the millions of Proletariat Strelky.

NI should be adjusted so that people don't spam them in favor of Strelky the same way Wehrmacht players don't spam Storms in favor of Grenadiers.

Yauz wrote:
NI should be adjusted so that people don't spam them in favor of Strelky the same way Wehrmacht players don't spam Storms in favor of Grenadiers.

if this is mean to be sarcastic I totally missed it, because spamming storms instead of grenadiers is a famous strategy "tier 3 blitz"

blackbishop wrote:
Well, we need to tweak Naval Infantry, that's for sure ;D . 3-2-4 seems fine....

Yauz wrote:
NI should be adjusted so that people don't spam them in favor of Strelky the same way Wehrmacht players don't spam Storms in favor of Grenadiers.

AND ... Adjust Blitzkrieg Doctrine LHS to 3-2-4?

I am somewhat puzzled. The DevTeam consistantly says no mods to vanilla vCoH BUT... CP for Tiger was changed to 5?

Relic changed that. The StuH was reduced by 1cp and it was added to the Tiger so it still comes at a total of 9cps LHS.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Relic changed that. The StuH was reduced by 1cp and it was added to the Tiger so it still comes at a total of 9cps LHS.

Damn! you spoiled my day GlD.  ;)

Possibly reverse the not one step back so that it works on opponents troops. Giving you a chance to easily flank and remove blobs or call arty/mortars on them.

Crinkle wrote:
Possibly reverse the not one step back so that it works on opponents troops. Giving you a chance to easily flank and remove blobs or call arty/mortars on them.

NOSB is being changed in the next patch and will fix the "Osht can't turn my troops" problem.

Crinkle wrote:
Possibly reverse the not one step back

kcab pets eno ton ;D

Quote
...so that it works on opponents troops. Giving you a chance to easily flank and remove blobs or call arty/mortars on them.

You mean the "I got you now" "Make them welcome our soldiers with open arms" ability. :-\ I dont think Communist propaganda worked on Wehrmacht. Atleast not in that way.

Last edited July 20, 2011 at 2:17 AM by Paciat

@ paciat, more of a 'your father land cares not about you'
                  or 'your out here in the snow and your stranded give up'
kind  of thing

Crinkle wrote:
@ paciat, more of a 'your father land cares not about you'
                  or 'your out here in the snow and your stranded give up'
kind  of thing

Lol, Germans never belived they get medical care or a deasent meal in Soviet prison camps. German army was one of the few in the world where officers ate the same thing as their men. Their industry usually supported them with modern equipment. in 1945 a lot of Germans wanted to escape from the Soviet army just to surrender to US. Actually they ran from the Soviets till the end of 1989.

Hey could the Penal troops be included as a Reward Unit for Naval Infantry in the Propaganda Doctrine.

Soviets already have their 4 reward units.

Which Are?

Tankbuster wrote:
Which Are?

>:( Play the game.

I see only the KV,T-34,IS-2 replacements ingame. The 4th one is
(I hope I am not offending you)

well, in that case you will need to wait a little more to discover the last one.

Tankbuster wrote:
I see only the KV,T-34,IS-2 replacements ingame. The 4th one is
(I hope I am not offending you)

(No your not.) :) KV-1 and KV-85 are 2 different units but this is debatable.

Anyway Penal troops were tested as a 2 CP call-in (2 squads without retreat option for less than 400MP) and rejected. Units that cant retreat and early game units that cannot be suppressed just dont fit the game.

Well actually, Paciat is right ;D... KVs are two reward units.

Meh. I don't use the KVs. Too slow.
I actually was suggesting that penal troops be cosmetic changes for NI like the Tiger Ace from ToV. Kinda miss the commisar you see.

Not sure if it has been said, but I think the problem with NI is that they have no squad limit.

yeah +1
make a limt on them
they are ELITE after all, they shouldnt be spammed
a Limit of 2 would fit really good
they would be support but not the main infantry...

Pauly3 wrote:
yeah +1
make a limt on them
they are ELITE after all, they shouldnt be spammed
a Limit of 2 would fit really good
they would be support but not the main infantry...

Stormtroopers, fallschrimjägers and rangers are elite call-ins and aren't limited, why we should limit Navals.

They needed a different approach than just setting a limit. Hopefully they will be better on the next update.

I think we should put the NI to the Urban warfare Doc, and instead enable the full equipment for the conscript. And btw how can the Sov detect sniper or cloaking units anyway ?

CS and t70