Why were Russian trenches removed in 1.4?

The Russian trench was the single reason I went propaganda. Without it, I don't think the Naval infantry are worth it when I can have tanks. The trenches were the only thing that kept the Germans back and without my infantry sustaining massive casualties. Could you bring them back as a reward unit or an upgrade?

Last edited May 27, 2011 at 11:48 AM by Jakeman

Trenches were removed because they're lame, don't fit with Russian playstyle and promote bad gameplay. I will do my best to make sure they NEVER return.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Trenches were removed because they're lame, don't fit with Russian playstyle and promote bad gameplay. I will do my best to make sure they NEVER return.

I too!  ;D

Trenches are kind of a british thing anyway. I'm not entirely happy with the Naval Infantry as a trade off though. They're too similar to the Partizans, and they're not that good anyway.

Dot.Shadow wrote:
Trenches are kind of a british thing anyway. I'm not entirely happy with the Naval Infantry as a trade off though. They're too similar to the Partizans, and they're not that good anyway.

Naval Infantry would be a great unit if there reinforce cost was set at 35 IMO

way too high for basically a stop gap unit, strelky put them to shame in damage output

RedGuard wrote:

Dot.Shadow wrote:
Trenches are kind of a british thing anyway. I'm not entirely happy with the Naval Infantry as a trade off though. They're too similar to the Partizans, and they're not that good anyway.

Naval Infantry would be a great unit if there reinforce cost was set at 35 IMO

way too high for basically a stop gap unit, strelky put them to shame in damage output

They need some buff, I think - after all, anything of any use in that doctrine comes at the end of the tree. It makes for a shame, that prop has nothing to add in the midgame, compared to other doctrines. So, they should get something, maybe AT nades after you research the Red Tide, or something conceptually similar (tied to further researches).

I myself found the naval infantry quite OP for their cost: for 2CP and 360mp (and a further 75muni) you can get a quite potent infantry unit.

I manage to get my NI squad to vet 3 at an insane rate against a Wer player.

As for the trenchs, I never really bothered to use them, to british for me.

But what disturb me the most, is that now soviet can build mg nest everywhere. WTH? I though they were doctrinal? And basically, they stay still horribly costly.
Oh boy, I remember the time when everyone would have flamed you if you dared suggest that the Mg nest shouldnt be doctrinal.  ::)

Naval Infantry needs a buff? We're kiddin'?

Two squads are enought for make a slaugther of Axis infantry (maybe except Vet.3)... SVT + DP-28 + PTDR.

They're ok.

they have the lowest HP of any elite call-in
and have far less damage output then strelky

they dont need a buff, or a nerf. I believe what they need is a very slight reinforce cost reduction
for 39MP a man they dont perform like it - at all

Last edited May 28, 2011 at 1:22 PM by RedGuard

so if folks are saying Naval infantry are too cheap and reinforce cost too high a solution could be:
increase call-in cost 380-400?
reduce reinforce cost to idk 20-30?

they are a pretty badass unit, decent anti-inf but can also wreck light vehicles? and smoke grenades, molotovs what more could you need?

Last edited June 1, 2011 at 12:10 PM by Mad hatters in jeans

while playing Propaganda they can easilly replace all other infantry squads - totally UP strelky, meat-shield conscripts and Vet. Guards, who might be effective too, but they don't get AT rifle.

Just move 'em up the tree (swap with the "Red Tide") - problem solved - they just cannot be OP for 4/5 CP, call-in, can they? SVTs are just a skin (it's guards' mosins by stats), one PTRD is pathetic - just remove it, but let the upgrade bring AT nades with longer cool-down than that of guards'

Tbfh, I agree. However: FFS, replace british trenches with Sov trenches (In CW/RMC build menus). I want to garrison more then one squad and be able to REPAIR my trench, not delete it and start the hell over -.-  .

core elements of vanilla gameplay will not be changed

:( Brits have terrible trench maintainance. Seriously its falling to pieces and ...

I'd like to get the trenches back, they fit red army perfectly.

It would be nice, I never used them anyway im more of a mobile agressor type. but I dont think we'll see them back :(

Hopit wrote:
I'd like to get the trenches back, they fit red army perfectly.

For nothing...trenches encourage bad gameplay.

Hopit wrote:
I'd like to get the trenches back, they fit red army perfectly.

Probably, you were using them to "camp", weren't you? If you like trenchs, go to CW (brits) :).

Uh guys instead of the trenches, you can make the soviet troops to build more simple thing like fox hole.

Mr.Q wrote:
Uh guys instead of the trenches, you can make the soviet troops to build more simple thing like fox hole.

But the concept it's the same, camping troops in heavy cover.

Last edited June 21, 2011 at 8:47 AM by Moonwalker

everyone camps cover its like a part of gameplay - even factions with no trenches, wehr are the worst campers everything goes in cover and then the bunkers MGs mortars and paks come ;D
with brits spanking everyone I think it made the trenches kind of became a target for liquidation

ashame though cause a lot of players got used to them and fell in love with their trenches.

although I didnt see many good SU players use the trenches much except to rush/abuse with them :P so that contributed to their downfall as well

Last edited June 21, 2011 at 9:48 AM by RedGuard

So if trenches are not available for building, you can use the fire base to shoot a hole and lay you troops down there- it's easier  ;D

No good gameplay can come of trenches. Wehr are at least vulnerable to arty and snipers while they camp in heavy cover. Trenches provide complete or partial protection for both. They also leave you unable to move which makes for completely undynamic gameplay. Even in an extreme campy Wehr strat, units move around in battle, use nades etc. Trenches just sit your units in them and are basically invincible against most things and extremely vulnerable to a few things. There is no moving or abilites usage because you a) can't and b) don't need to.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
No good gameplay can come of trenches. Wehr are at least vulnerable to arty and snipers while they camp in heavy cover. Trenches provide complete or partial protection for both. They also leave you unable to move which makes for completely undynamic gameplay. Even in an extreme campy Wehr strat, units move around in battle, use nades etc. Trenches just sit your units in them and are basically invincible against most things and extremely vulnerable to a few things. There is no moving or abilites usage because you a) can't and b) don't need to.

That's exactly what I mean. :)

I would think adding a Manpower cost would help reduce abuse with trenches. But I guess if you camp you get a lot of Resources.

Um, no. Camping means you are cut off from most territories, meaning you get less resources. That combined with the ludicrous Brit prices, means you don't stand a chance against a competent player...

Why always revive this old thread?

No trenches for russians!

No Trenches for Brits either, preferably. ;D

I'm surprised there is so much talk of bad game play vis a vis Trenches. Once your Ingenery finish their basic building; (they really are weak in front line combat); have them build an outpost about a third of the way up the map on a high resource or strategic choke point; Trenches in support range of OP. Barbed wire, road blocks and mines, Med truck to retreat and reinforce conscripts as your Line infantry comes into play. Oh yeah I almost forgot the whole point of the exercise is to protect the Firebase you back it up with.  ;) "Queen of Battle", very Soviet. Nice place for a Strategic Reserve when there are trenches. Otherwise you need an MG nest or Strelky with DPs in the outpost.


OT Regarding NI
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2011»,

QuoteJust move 'em up the tree (swap with the "Red  Tide") - problem solved - they just cannot be OP for 4/5 CP, call-in,  can they?

+3, I would change Red Tide to 3CP,NI to 1CP...   

QuoteSVTs are just a skin (it's guards' mosins by stats), one PTRD  is pathetic - just remove it, but let the upgrade bring AT nades with  longer cool-down than that of guards'

  :-\ Seems to me Molotovs are good against Light vehicles. Immobilize 'em and Hit 'em with the PTRD.

Hmm, thread is a little old, but I don't really want to make a new thread for this.

Commisar ability to shoot one of the squads members to stop retreating if they were retreating, and make them fight harder with increased stats? Assuming you can add a commisar to a squad of conscripts?

This is off-topic, but I'm going to answer that, that ability will never return :).