[[IP address redacted]] SU-122: Balance Concern

I have a serious balance concern for the SU-122.

For the first part and the most, I LOVE this tank! I would never go back to a KV-2, even if the KV-2 has more armor, this is much faster, can deal a heavy dose, fires quicker, etc. (It's also a bit inaccurate, fired at an enemy HQ only to see the shell fly to the far right and hit the Wehr Quarters.)

But...

The horrific truth is that not only does it terminate buildings with ease, but it also does EXTREMELY heavy damage to lighter vehicles and tanks like the StuG, StuH 42, even Ostwinds and Panzers take pretty big hits from these guys.

This wouldn't be so much of a problem late game but this beauty comes in at 5 CPs.

I'm not so sure if it should be ripping armor apart like it is. If it should, then I think it's armor should be reduced, as it took about 10 StuG shots to get it to critical condition, which I just repaired anyway... If it shouldn't, then obviously lower it's damage VS tanks.

Just a concern.

Last edited May 27, 2011 at 1:10 PM by Rizz

I thought it's just a faster and lighter armored KV-2 (the gun is pretty much the same).
As for it's armor, I don't think it's that tough - it almost died DRIVING BY 2-3 infantry squads and some 2-3 pumas. I say, that's a lot lighter than KV-2. It's just that stug is AI - it's not supposed to kill armor.

But say an panzer IV? It does pretty good damage VS that, and if you play your cards right you might even kill it.

I see what you're saying, but I think it's main cannon may be too powerful. Even on the small "1-9" scales in game, it's rated a 9 for AT, and (IIRC) a 6 for anti-building.

I think its great, su122 would maul a p4 neway  :P

its a 600mp call-in, its not very survivable(hetzer better armored), and its armed with a 122mm gun - and its a part of the least used SU doctrine thats overshaodowed and underused by other 2 superior doctrines

Last edited May 27, 2011 at 6:42 AM by RedGuard

Pz4 would most certainly demolish it (even two of these at a time) easily, unless it (Pz) is commanded by some "re-e-a-alllly slo-o-ow" dude.  ;D ;D

Cranialwizard wrote:
But say an panzer IV? It does pretty good damage VS that, and if you play your cards right you might even kill it.

I see what you're saying, but I think it's main cannon may be too powerful. Even on the small "1-9" scales in game, it's rated a 9 for AT, and (IIRC) a 6 for anti-building.

Just so you know, those 1-9 scales are set by devs and aren't automatically linked to the actual stats of the unit, so they aren't much good for balance discussions, because there are a ton of different stats which have subtle effects on battle outcomes.

Put it another way, both a sniper and a Knights Cross unit might have high anti-infantry ratings on the 1-9 scale, but it doesn't tell you about how differently the two units work, and wouldn't be useful in a balance discussion about them.

The 1-9 scales in EF are incorrect anyway the KV-1 and KV-85 have the same ratings which aint right.

I tried the 122 after seeing this and tbh I agree with cranial, if you get two of these out no infantry will survive, their speed and rate of fire overshadows any negative the armour nerf gives to them.

Also Nashorn is great but seems to have no hard cap ???, KV series is worthy alternative to T-34, oh and the Daimler armoured car is just bad, lost it instantly to a pioneer squad somehow... I mean really whats the point of giving it the littlejohn adapter if it cant even get close enough to a Puma or even Motorbike to use it?

Last edited May 27, 2011 at 8:44 AM by Raider217

kv-2 rapes harder its also slower and more survivable

no balance issue here *slams gavel*

I know those scales arn't worth anything but I was just using them as an example.

I really think there should be a reduction for this. They are cheaper and easier to spam and it takes a couple shots to kill a panzer IV: I fear what someone can do with 3 of these well micro'd at a time.

KV-2 is good, but I think for one it's main cannon seems incredibly weak compared to the SU-122. It can't tear tanks apart like the SU-122. While it's also a mammoth, it's slow as F*ck, so if you need it ASAP then you won't get it ASAP, you'll get it where it needed to be 3 minutes AFTER you needed it.

The SU-122 is absolutely fantastic, but I don't see how it will escape the nerf hammer eventually. I actually managed to decrew two AT guns at the same time with it. Sure it was a blob, but the only thing stopping that beast is another tank.

The KV-2 sucks though. I never use that thing. It's accuracy is a joke, and it's massive damage doesn't make up for it in any way.

RedGuard wrote:
kv-2 rapes harder its also slower and more survivable

no balance issue here *slams gavel*

You are wrong.  *Slams gravel*

IJoe wrote:
It's just that stug is AI - it's not supposed to kill armor.

You mean StuH42, right? That's anti-infantry, whilst StuGIV is anti-armor.

Dot.Shadow wrote:
I actually managed to decrew two AT guns at the same time with it.

do you have a replay?

Yauz wrote:

RedGuard wrote:
kv-2 rapes harder its also slower and more survivable

no balance issue here *slams gavel*

You are wrong.  *Slams gravel*

about what?

RedGuard wrote:

Dot.Shadow wrote:
I actually managed to decrew two AT guns at the same time with it.

do you have a replay?

Yauz wrote:

RedGuard wrote:
kv-2 rapes harder its also slower and more survivable

no balance issue here *slams gavel*

You are wrong.  *Slams gravel*

about what?

The SU-122 defiantly seems more powerful than the KV-2. It's also slightly more accurate, faster too. The only thing you LOSE from the KV-2 is it's armor. Why WOULDN'T you use the SU-122 in it's place? Cheaper, Faster, Stronger, better at killing tanks...

Last edited May 27, 2011 at 8:34 PM by Cranialwizard

Cheaper, faster, stronger...and bugged.  :(

When it takes a shell from an enemy tank, someone of the players in the gaeme crash.

Tried today with Dennis and Killar.

No replay I'm afraid, but I'll make sure to keep an eye out for any similar situations.

Yes please do I've used  su122 extensively and I cant seem to get it to de crew AT guns as effortless as you can. or 2 at the same time

and maybe some of you forget tanks of the su's design are easily circle strafed and destroyed by lesser vehicles. especially indirect fire ones like this

Yeah SU-122 seems to do too much damage to tanks. This'll probably be toned down next patch. Against infantry though it seems fine.

Please nobody use them in PvP matches though. Like moonwalker said, when hit by shells it crashes the game for some people.

Rizz wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:
The SU-122, in some multiplayer matches, on contact with a tank shell the game will drop (Crash the game) everyone.

Turning "Object Scarring" off seems to solve it for now.

According to Rizz turning off Object Scarring seems to do the trick. So far no more crashes when I tell the people in my game to turn it off too.

The armor on this is just awful... I blew 600 to have it destroyed in 15 seconds by two front shots (can't remember the two tanks, but not even a tiger or anything like that) and a side shot from a puma. It has good power itself, but not OP in my opinion as it took me four shots to take out a frigen Stug. I won't be wasting 600 again anytime soon on a tank that can get destroyed so easily again.  Next game it got hit twice and almost got destroyed so i put repair team on and it took FOREVER to repair. I know mechanics are better suited for that (if you have the doctrine) but geeze if the thing is going to be wiped out in two or three shots I'd at least hope the repair rate would be fairly quick for it. Oh well, at least I learned that lesson fast. :-)

interesting, your post seems to build on my theory. you either love the thing or you hate it. seems to be one extreme to the other

this su122 is going to be a pain to get to the bottom of its true performance, we used it in the closed beta testing and it was underused IMO.

If anyone can post some replays of anything su122 related it would help. like if one game its totally raping peoples faces off, plz post it. and if the thing just sucked i would like to see that too thx comrades

Oh wow, the SU-122 is so vulnerable to disabled threads and engine it's almost sad to look at. PE Light AT Halftrack is amazing against this beast.

I'm changing my mind. This thing is easy to kill, and it kills easily. If you can't kill it, it's not because it's OP, it's because you're doing it wrong. Pretty balanced I'd say now :)

Yeah shadow I'm gonna say that argument is invalid with if your letting it die that easliy youre doing something wrong it speed allows it to outrun or quickly pop in and out of fights that are dangerous to it.

It should be better against buildings, but worse against tanks. It does have a powerful 122mm gun, why did I get surprised about it's "unexpected" reliability as panzer iv counter?