infra-red Panthers etc?

So recently I have been digging up historical contents in search of possible additions and for a personal hobby as well (granted more so towards the latter then the former)

As was posted on Panzer88s site this pretty good find on a page about the Vampir and various other infra red equipment that was being employable by the Germans in the latter years of the war...

Including the mounted infra red gun sights and headlamps on various vehicles; http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/Nightfighting%20Panthers.htm, very interesting article even though there are some notable inaccuracies buried within..

I like it, especially for our current plan for ostheer. Instead of having a top MG, you can have this and it's effect would be similar to schwim. Sounds interesting but don't know if that would be a good idea :-\.

Well. The infra red had the same problem like ski troops;
Ski troops need snow - infra red needs night.
How much maps are night fighting maps ;)

Is a nice idea but too limited and thats the key problem.

just make it incresing sight range... that's simple  ;)

cephalos wrote:
just make it incresing sight range... that's simple  ;)

Have you got any experience with infrared devices? They can never increase the sight distance, unless you're in blind darkness, heavy for, or something of that kind.

Lord wrote:
Well. The infra red had the same problem like ski troops;
Ski troops need snow - infra red needs night.
How much maps are night fighting maps ;)

Is a nice idea but too limited and thats the key problem.

Maybe something for the campaign? ;)

But this is a game, Joe.

And I would truthfully add something different, not the Vampir, but the Krummlauf barrel attachment, much cooler in my eyes. Attaches to a StG44, though I don't know what an upgrade like this would buff, range or accuracy from cover or something like that.

neosdark wrote:
But this is a game, Joe.

Still, let's try not to bring in "light sabres". Our yunglings are learning the life from videogames, you know.  ;)

Yeah, i understand that you have to make concessions for games, but still, you have to draw the line somewhere. Infrared increasing L.O.S. is just too much...

IJoe wrote:

cephalos wrote:
just make it incresing sight range... that's simple  ;)

Have you got any experience with infrared devices? They can never increase the sight distance, unless you're in blind darkness, heavy for, or something of that kind.

Like neoskard said, it's a game, how can you put things like this in a game?

1) Increasing line of sight, like a binocular.
2) Scouting camouflaged units in the nearest areas.

I can't see other way to use it.

Like i said, it could fit in the campaign just fine.

Yeah, i don't think this would fit normal gameplay.

Moonwalker wrote:
1) Increasing line of sight, like a binocular.
2) Scouting camouflaged units in the nearest areas.

Number two  would at least be not stupid.

Moonwalker wrote:

IJoe wrote:

cephalos wrote:
just make it incresing sight range... that's simple  ;)

Have you got any experience with infrared devices? They can never increase the sight distance, unless you're in blind darkness, heavy for, or something of that kind.

Like neoskard said, it's a game, how can you put things like this in a game?

1) Increasing line of sight, like a binocular.
2) Scouting camouflaged units in the nearest areas.

I can't see other way to use it.

scouting camouflaged units in the nearest areas is a realy cool idea
in this case the infra-red upgrade makes sens

Camo units aren't that common in Company Of Heroes. I don't know what the Soviets have aside from Tank Hunters, so something like that would have little use. The only place it could fit is the campaign.

infra red panthers are fine by me as long as I dont have to hear anymore grief about mortars firing howitzer shells  :P

Well then perhaps we can put it (Vampir) on a Halftrack and use it to support the Ost infantry when they are hunting Snipers. I'm sure there will be someway to hunt them so why don't make their method something like this. Doesn't have to be on a halftrack could be put on a Schwimm or the Ost equivalent as an upgrade giving it even higher detection range.

Anyway thoughts on the Krummlauf?

evilSpike wrote:

Moonwalker wrote:

IJoe wrote:

cephalos wrote:
just make it incresing sight range... that's simple  ;)

Have you got any experience with infrared devices? They can never increase the sight distance, unless you're in blind darkness, heavy for, or something of that kind.

Like neoskard said, it's a game, how can you put things like this in a game?

1) Increasing line of sight, like a binocular.
2) Scouting camouflaged units in the nearest areas.

I can't see other way to use it.

scouting camouflaged units in the nearest areas is a realy cool idea
in this case the infra-red upgrade makes sens

It could be something similar:

Title: Infra-red Upgrade

Cost: 30 ammo (since 40)

Summary: with infra-red vision, Panther can detect camouflaged units in the nearest area for a short period of time.
When this ability is active, Panther is locked.

What do you think about?

Units that can be detected are many:

- Snipers
- PIAT Sappers in Ambush Mode
- TH
- Partisans
- M18 Hellcat

etc...

Last edited May 2, 2011 at 4:15 PM by Moonwalker

http://www.ppsh41.com/serge3.htm

:O; Commissar? xD




The Infa-red is interesting; although would be more so if we could implement a proper Day/Night cycle to CoH.
Use for discovering cloaked unit's is a possibility; possibly by sweeping across a targeted area.

Last edited May 2, 2011 at 2:48 PM by Dragon93

I really don't support changes to the affects of the time of day (And weather, as well.). It wouldn't be too hard to have a campaign level where you get to use it properly at night (Or the enemy uses it, in the case of the Soviet campaign.).

Imo this infra red devices are awesome! They look really cool ^^My vote go for the detecting camo units. This make the OH Panther unique compared to WH and PE Panthers.

Yeah It would be awesome to have it campaigne. But IMO easternfront its more prio to MP than singelplayer :/

Sommarkatze wrote:
Imo this infra red devices are awesome! They look really cool ^^My vote go for the detecting camo units. This make the OH Panther unique compared to WH and PE Panthers.

Yeah It would be awesome to have it campaigne. But IMO easternfront its more prio to MP than singelplayer :/

Yes but if we could implement the day/night cicle, would be in some MP maps too :).

I noticed that on some maps the time will change, such as when you set it to night, the game will start at dusk and gradually change to night. Implementing a full cycle would be pretty cool, but really a waste of time and resources.

Yes. Yes indeed.Then we have to think about how fast would a day go by? It would be kind of fail if it was like in wc3 when a wholeday changes in 10min XD

Detecting camo units sounds great, but will be rarely useful. What if playing against Commonwealth? And what if enemy don't uses camo units? Wasted munitions, I think. To detect enemy I can use motorbike or Volks. Detecting sounds a bit useless...

One note: all this infra red materials were very very rare at the front. Some small units had used this infra red scopes during the last days!!! (and i mean LAST DAYS!)
By adding this stuff u get an heavy 1945+ Ostheer - no common Ostheer of the eastern front. U mix up more and more stuff.
So i have to say that i'm against infra red in general Ostheer games!

Fully agree - Should be in campaign. ;D

Lord wrote:
One note: all this infra red materials were very very rare at the front. Some small units had used this infra red scopes during the last days!!! (and i mean LAST DAYS!)
By adding this stuff u get an heavy 1945+ Ostheer - no common Ostheer of the eastern front. U mix up more and more stuff.
So i have to say that i'm against infra red in general Ostheer games!

That's a really moot point, you might as well say that there shouldn't be King Tigers and JagdTigers for the mod because there weren't allot of those in the war as well...

Also just in case some of the charlatans that I notice on here come and try to oust this by way of claiming that it wasn't used on the eastern front I only have this to say; read em and weep: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/german-infrared-night-vision-devices-infrarot-scheinwerfer.htm it was used on BOTH fronts contrary to popular belief of it being used only in one setting...  ;)

Well. The Kingtiger played an essential part of the german tank troops during the last months of the war. Bupdapest, the battle of east prussia, battle of poland; where german schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilungen had fought u found the Kingtiger.

So this weapon played an role on the front in contrast to the infra red. A small number of tanks and half tracks were equipped with this new technology. Just a few battle were fought with infra red. A new technology of the last days of the war.

And please: Dont reduce Ostheer onto Kingtiger ;) Panzer III, Marder II and Wespe played an bigger role than Kingtiger ^^

Russia has no camo units? What about Elite Sniper and Partisans. It would be a cool upgrade if it was 25 munitions and just help detect cloaked units. Obviously most maps are day maps but it would be a neat feature and it seems like every other kind of german weapon or technology is ingame even if not use realistically (V1)

@Sovereign
Hence the Jagtiger will be removed ;).

I think infared should be used on a sort of reward Pz IV since the Panther sucks at infantry killing, unless this is to encourage the usage of mechanized infatnry.

HyperSniper999 wrote:
I think infared should be used on a sort of reward Pz IV since the Panther sucks at infantry killing, unless this is to encourage the usage of mechanized infatnry.

Actually there was a mechanism in some tanks that utilised like a bent shotgun that purged infantry around the tank! :)

That would be more useful I think...

Curved barrels on MP44s. Stress of going around the curve shattered the bullet, making it like a fully auto shotgun.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Curved barrels on MP44s. Stress of going around the curve shattered the bullet, making it like a fully auto shotgun.

Was that what it was? Thanks for the info :)

Paladin88 wrote:

HyperSniper999 wrote:
I think infared should be used on a sort of reward Pz IV since the Panther sucks at infantry killing, unless this is to encourage the usage of mechanized infatnry.

Actually there was a mechanism in some tanks that utilised like a bent shotgun that purged infantry around the tank! :)

That would be more useful I think...

I thought it was to attack tanks by being able to go throught the slit holes and things like that.

What I'm saying is Panther cannon sucks at infantry fighting making it retarded to put a feature like that on it, unless it was intended to be used in conjunction with infantry around the tank.

panther main gun is fine vs infantry it snipes snipers ffs!

He I have an idear non have said yet.
lets add it in the campaign

Now why didn't i think of that?! ;D

Troynl wrote:
He I have an idear non have said yet.
lets add it in the campaign

Very interesting. It would be useful, maybe use it against partisans if they'll add such a level?

Or have partisans needing to avoid it if playing as them.

Last edited May 21, 2011 at 12:29 AM by HyperSniper999

HyperSniper999 wrote:

Troynl wrote:
He I have an idear non have said yet.
lets add it in the campaign

Very interesting. It would be useful, maybe use it against partisans if they'll add such a level?

Or have partisans needing to avoid it if playing as them.

Here's something extra: we could also have the 251/20 (Infrared) halftracks in a similar mission, these were paired with friendly tanks to help them at night.



In one way, the Infrared Panther could be in the "Boss Fight" ;D

i still like the idea to upgrade the panther with infra-red.
but not to increase the range or something like that

its only to detect cloaked units and decreased the green cover boni of units when panther (only units wiht this upgrade) fighting them

Nope - Only for night-ops in the campaign, and possibly a multiplayer/skirmish gametype.

pariah wrote:
Nope - Only for night-ops in the campaign, and possibly a multiplayer/skirmish gametype.

+1

Well crap we might as well bring my Nachtjagers back to the table if thats the case. LOL im jk ;)....unless you would.

what do you guys think about some umbrellas or raincoats for rain-maps???  ;D  ;D  ;D

Real soldiers don't need such luxuries. ;) What's this got to do with night-ops, anyway? :-\

solid_snake wrote:
what do you guys think about some umbrellas or raincoats for rain-maps???  ;D  ;D  ;D

It would be neat to see soldiers put on ponchos when it begins to rain like all the war movies.

Good to see decent threads being derailed by sensational spam as usual, always a beneficiary in furthering the topic at hand...

pariah wrote:
Real soldiers don't need such luxuries. ;) What's this got to do with night-ops, anyway? :-\

Really? it provides thermal visioning that highlights emissions of heat which in the case of night fighting means guaranteed marks on enemy soldiers as their bodies metabolic processes give off the most heat vs the surroundings which are no longer induced with uav rays from the sun.

In layman terms, warm blooded beings will be singled out of the cooler environment as they are 'heated'.  ;)

Anyway I think that the infra-red equipment should at least be featured in the campaign would be an excellent set piece more so for latter part of it then the former for sure.

Last edited July 14, 2011 at 11:38 PM by Sovereign

...How is a raincoat and umbrella going to reduce the effect of your thermal signature? ???