Some ideas.

Hi people!  ;D

First idea:

In second building of SU, we can choose two upgrades: buildable sniper and ZiS 2, and buildable tank hunters and mortar group. We can buy both this upgrades. I think it makes no sense. Better idea is we can choose only ONE upgrade. That means - we want sniper to fight vs infantry or ZiS 2 to fight vs vehicles and on the upside - tank hunters to fight vs vehicles and mortar group to fight vs infantry. When you chose one upgrade, the second one is locked, that should be. SU have too many infantry, so this should reduce their number.

The idea is from Ostheer, becasue there also we can choose only one global upgrade to build two need units. (of course in one building)

The second idea:

Why SU can build Tanks Depot at the beginning (it's unlocked)? Better idea - you have to build barracks, support barracks, any upgrade in support barracks and then you can build tanks depot. It's probably more fair, isn't it?

And the third one but it's more like suggestion:

About 5 months ago i asked you (devs) that can you show current EF version in CoH menu. If you don't want make it in menu, so just make it in launcher. This isn't difficult, is it? That would help many, many, many players.

That's all. Thank you for reading.

Regards
TheDzierzanPL :P

You can find the EF version in the EF launcher. Click "About" in the menu bar.

SnappingTurtle wrote:
You can find the EF version in the EF launcher. Click "About" in the menu bar.

Sorry to say, but that is only the launcher version (3.100 atm) and not the mod version (1.31).

For the 1st idea; No, thats a terrible idea. The idea of having to choose which upgrades to use would severely handicap the Soviets. If you get the AT gun and the Sniper you lose the ability to use the Tank Hunter which is very good early AT infantry to take out the pesky light HTs and other vehicles which are plague tot he Soviets when used right. Getting only the Mortar and Tank Hunters would handicap their ability to fight Tanks, because the Tank Hunters are good vs. vehicles but can't do that much damage to the heavier tanks and the Mortar is useless without recon as it has no targeting.

For the 2nd idea; I'm sorry but this too is not a good idea. The ability to deploy the Tank Depot before the Support building is to create more varied strategies and different unit combos in early game. The linear tree you suggested would make them look like the bloody Brits who's linear Truck Tree is quite boring and doesn't allow for new tactics, just the same old crap.

For the 3rd idea: That is a good idea, but I don't find it necessary. It can be implemented at a later date, not something to waste the Devs time with

neosdark wrote:
For the 1st idea; No, thats a terrible idea. The idea of having to choose which upgrades to use would severely handicap the Soviets. If you get the AT gun and the Sniper you lose the ability to use the Tank Hunter which is very good early AT infantry to take out the pesky light HTs and other vehicles which are plague tot he Soviets when used right. Getting only the Mortar and Tank Hunters would handicap their ability to fight Tanks, because the Tank Hunters are good vs. vehicles but can't do that much damage to the heavier tanks and the Mortar is useless without recon as it has no targeting.

+1

You would have to mandate between Mobile or Heavy AT weapons, and Artillery or Anti-Infantry...It's just NOT a good idea. It would cripple any mid-game stance.

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For the 2nd idea; I'm sorry but this too is not a good idea. The ability to deploy the Tank Depot before the Support building is to create more varied strategies and different unit combos in early game. The linear tree you suggested would make them look like the bloody Brits who's linear Truck Tree is quite boring and doesn't allow for new tactics, just the same old crap.

Also +1, it allows players to rush for tanks and surprise the enemy. It's not a BAD thing you can rush for tanks, and besides, if you're rushing for tanks you pretty much need around 150+ fuel. (To build the tank hall, then upgrade it, then purchase your first tank.)

Summary:
Ideas #1 and 2 - let's nerf soviets to the hell and back!
-Hell No!
The rest is OK

Well i respetc your answers - ok NO, not all ideas have to be great.

But version of EF should be somewhere.

TheDzierzanPL wrote:
The idea is from Ostheer, becasue there also we can choose only one global upgrade to build two need units. (of course in one building)

Hallo!

But you could switch between the pools, so it only costs the soviet player much more ressources, but will not prevent him to build these units.

greetings

i dont thing its a good idea that soviets can only choose one upgrade
but whats about after the player choose an upgrade
the other upgrade cost increase so you are still able to get all units but its not so easy to spam

If you want to ban spamming, then do it directly - set the limit for each "spammable" unit (like it's done for conscripts f.e.). But I would expect the same thing to be done to axis, esp. to PE, then.

ok spam isnt the right word^^
but i think as soviets you have to set priorities
if you want a sniper ok take the cheap upgrade
but if te situation changes and you neet tankhunters or a mortar you must buy the increased upgrade to get one of this units

but its only a idea^^

I don't think, you can actually implement that idea, apart from that I don't like it (but that's just IMO).
Anyway, the biggest balance issue about soviets being called OP, is that all their abilities (let alone mines) are resources-free (cool-down itself is not that relevant anyway). So a compromising decision would be making all/some abilities cost resources, but the price would be set lower, than that for other factions, and with shorter cool-downs, than those ATM. That would also require a massive revision of the munition upkeep though.

I think that the abilitys/muni upkeep are fine actually, just a few tweaks to stats here and there and SU is good to go!

I don't think ideas 1 and 2 should even be debated upon at this point, it's almost unanimously agreed that they are NOT good ideas.

I like soviets the way they are, can't speak for everyone however.

Cranialwizard wrote:
I don't think ideas 1 and 2 should even be debated upon at this point, it's almost unanimously agreed that they are NOT good ideas.

I like soviets the way they are, can't speak for everyone however.

+1

Version tags please ;D.

I don't think this is really a balance discussion, more of a "Soviet Faction Change Suggestion"

Does it need version tags, then?

I think you're right. This doesn't need version tags, but to be moved on the correct section.

Guys i have ideas about the Soviet, you can make the T-60 light tank (primary weapon 20mm gun ) a reward unit for the T-90 SPAAG, the M3 mounted with Zis-2(SU-57) replace the Zis-2 AT gun,T-26 for the T-70.

Mr.Q wrote:
Guys i have ideas about the Soviet, you can make the T-60 light tank (primary weapon 20mm gun ) a reward unit for the T-90 SPAAG, the M3 mounted with Zis-2(SU-57) replace the Zis-2 AT gun,T-26 for the T-70.

V1.4.0 I like the idea of reward units for Light Tankovy to increase the variety of Sov armor available. I would suggest the T26 for the T70  and a BT7M for the T90, (T90 was based on T60 chassis anyway). I don't care much for the notion of motorizing the ATG though. Maybe we can see some of these ideas implemented in EF_v2.xx.

i think the T 60 is better becuase it has the 20mm gun which is better in dealing with infantries and garrisoned structures. The BT-7M's job has been taken by the T-70 since the T-70 is faster and both equiped with 45mm gun. And since the Soviet don't have infantry moblilizing vehicles i think the SU-57 is great in replacing ( reward unit) for the Zis-2.

Good point. The EF T90 is based upon the T70 though.It should have the same speed (or higher, armament weight is less).

T90 was based on T70 in reality

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The first serious design of a real air-defence vehicle was in 1942, when a twin 12.7 mm DShK machine gun turret with optical sights was built for mounting on the T-60 scout tank. The T-70 became available in the meantime, and was adopted as the basis for the T-90 self-propelled anti-aircraft gun

Ok now i have some ideas for the conscripts. If they can't be equipped with full rifles at starting- have to get to Vet 2 to get full rifles- and i hate that. So why don't we add 1 more additional ability in the propaganda doctrine or the armoury which is  adding a commissar equipped with a ppsh and have some orders for the squad like Hold ground, charge... and disable the retreat ability just like in 1.31 and fit the history facts. I think if the conscipt keep staying like this no commander, no full rifle at starting and lack of experience, they won't last longer than 30 seconds dealing face to face with the Volks.

Mr.Q wrote:
Ok now i have some ideas for the conscripts. If they can't be equipped with full rifles at starting- have to get to Vet 2 to get full rifles- and i hate that. So why don't we add 1 more additional ability in the propaganda doctrine or the armoury which is  adding a commissar equipped with a ppsh and have some orders for the squad like Hold ground, charge... and disable the retreat ability just like in 1.31 and fit the history facts. I think if the conscipt keep staying like this no commander, no full rifle at starting and lack of experience, they won't last longer than 30 seconds dealing face to face with the Volks.

that's why they should retreat :l

I mean you can update with the Commissar if you want because i said that they are lack of experience so update with a commisar will help them gain faster experience in killing and faster to gain full rifles and along with it you have to pay a price: can't retreat.

Mr.Q wrote:
I mean you can update with the Commissar if you want because i said that they are lack of experience so update with a commisar will help them gain faster experience in killing and faster to gain full rifles and along with it you have to pay a price: can't retreat.

That cannot be done :). That's why they were different entities.

why would you want no retreat Q? I'm happy the no-retreat thing is gone, all it did really was handicap your squad and allow them to be targeted for assassination in pvp

So if no- retreating is not possible, you should add something to keep the Conscripts last longer in battle like a said a commissar would be nice because i'm sick of wasting 224 mp.

Adding no-retreat after ver, that could  be possible. Adding a Commissar after vet or as a separate upgrade is not possible.

But you can upgrade the guards to shock guards with an extra sergeant and still getting veterancy.

Its hard coded and cannot be done

They could change armor type by gaining vet. That would make them a bit tougher with vet3.

Also the price should be adjusted, like 220MP (dunno why it costs 4 MP more, maybe the 4 rifles  ;D )

That's not the same case, that's why deployed guards don't benefit from the upgrade, because is a different unit.

Killar wrote:
Also the price should be adjusted, like 220MP (dunno why it costs 4 MP more, maybe the 4 rifles  ;D )

Exactly :D

If you are "Wasting" 224 mp then you are not using conscripts right. They are actually fairly decent infantry, considering they have a fair  amount of health for 4 rifles at a time...

Adding a commisar after vet is impossible. It's hardcoded as Killar said.

blackbishop wrote:
That's not the same case, that's why deployed guards don't benefit from the upgrade, because is a different unit.

+1

Besides, why would you implant the no-retreat error again? That's just something that screws up the balance in it's own realm. Get a MG-42 out on the field and they're dead, I don't care what sort of powerful health or armor they have. If they can't break suppression with a retreat then they sit there and watch the bullets go through their friends. (You could use an ability to break it but still risky because as soon as it fades away you're still stuck...)

They will be given a warm welcome to Toast City. Population: 8 conscripts.

Ok so can you sneak peak the next update conscipts, beacause can't let them stay like this- it's pointless to spend 224 MP and let them die.

Mr.Q wrote:
Ok so can you sneak peak the next update conscipts, beacause can't let them stay like this- it's pointless to spend 224 MP and let them die.

Honestly i have my conscripts still in late game :P

Wow can you show me how to keep them alive and gain veteracy faster ? Cuz i'm so impatient in playing with these guys always die and have to retreat.

lol, i just made the conscripts get a commissar throught vet without crashing... at last ;D!!! Recrew and conscript's commissar upgrade are now possible :).

Last edited June 22, 2011 at 3:07 AM by blackbishop

Yay!! so now they can get a commissar.

Mr.Q wrote:
Yay!! so now they can get a commissar.

That's not definite.

Yes, but there is a hope for the conscripts.

Conscripts are fine as is. They are excellent in buildings and decent in cover. I always keep my conscripts intact until the very end of the game where they are likely eaten by some tank or arty combo.

Oh and one thing that i am concerning about is the Flamethrower Roks-3, in moddb blackbishop has already answered me that they are working on the new model and not using the M2 FT in the future. How do you guys think ?

@Mr.Q

Dude next time make your topic and talk there about your ideas. This topic (my ideas) is dead. I'll lock this.