What is the best soviet way of development against PE?

Frankly, I find myself lost about that one. I just can't figure out, if there's 100% safe way of early-middle game SU vs. PE. They always are just such a pain, unlike WM.
What would you, guys, suggest?

lots of strelky, lots of tank hunters. micro them well and its all you really need. add heavier units to seal the deal
if its PvP I would go sharpshooters as well, and dont forget the t90

look out for mortars  ;)

Personally I light vehicle rush against PE most times. It's just as effective as M8/T17 rush if not more so. PE have always had a weakness against these early vehicles and always will. The ATHT is far weaker against Soviet vehicles than the American ones too. If I'm in trouble as far as infantry goes, I will usually get strafynie because molotovs are very effective against PE.

No, guys, not this random stuff - build orders!

Hmmm, this is a difficult one. Since the Soviets don't start off with any squad, it can be argued that they suffer a speed penalty because of this. Its like chess, black goes 2nd (no racist context) therefore it waits to see what white does first. Try to be flexible that's the best thing about the soviets, they have great counters to anything just be ready to deal with it. Build orders are pretty inappropiate to give since no one really specifically builds the same thing all the time. The best advice is know your opponent, if they're PE, watch their replays and take note of what is their tendency.

Paladin88 wrote:
Hmmm, this is a difficult one. Since the Soviets don't start off with any squad, it can be argued that they suffer a speed penalty because of this. Its like chess, black goes 2nd (no racist context) therefore it waits to see what white does first. Try to be flexible that's the best thing about the soviets, they have great counters to anything just be ready to deal with it. Build orders are pretty inappropiate to give since no one really specifically builds the same thing all the time. The best advice is know your opponent, if they're PE, watch their replays and take note of what is their tendency.

I appreciate the time, you've spent typing this in, but I want to ask: does anything of what you have printed down have any relation to any kind of build order at all?

Summary: Soviets have no magic formula.

Anticipatation and gut feeling is the hallmark of a good player. If you build the wrong type, you just feed veterancy to the enemy. Aim to build units you work well with, don't rely on other people's build orders since everyone's style is different, right?

Yeah you need to adapt and be flexible. every battle will be dynamic and unique.

however a rule of thumb I usually go with
Command squad
3 conscripts (lately ive been geting strafynie upgrade for molotov)
2-3 Strelky (red banner upgr. situational)
2-3 Tankhunters (men against tank upgr. situational)
either go cheap SU-85's to IS-2, or go straight for T-34's
add Guards

thats my basic build

Last edited April 28, 2011 at 7:37 PM by REDcommissar

I begin every soviet game the same. Ingenery (build barracks) - CS - conscript x3. From there I will have around 30FU and will retreat my ingenery back to base. This is when I decide my tech path depending on the enemy. Against PE they will likely build an armoury and research strafynie. I will build 1-3 squads of these depending on fuel rate but will mostly make use of the free molotovs. Build tank hall as soon as you can afford it.

Everybody loves tanks, but you can really go infantry heavy strats against PE easier than vs WH.
2 Engies +3Conscripts +CS
Then Strelky with DP28 + AT squads can take care of any light vehicle, while 2 flamer Engies will help vs the PE infantry. Then transition to upgraded Zis Guns + select Doc. Sturmovie can also curb the effectiveness of MP44 squads a bit.

Zerstörer wrote:
Everybody loves tanks, but you can really go infantry heavy strats against PE easier than vs WH.
2 Engies +3Conscripts +CS
Then Strelky with DP28 + AT squads can take care of any light vehicle, while 2 flamer Engies will help vs the PE infantry. Then transition to upgraded Zis Guns + select Doc. Sturmovie can also curb the effectiveness of MP44 squads a bit.

Very doubtful, this will actually work:
1) hunting down vehicles with mobs draws a lot of your attention, and it's rather risky, unless your opponent simply lets you do that time after time (mines, mortar HT, all sort of set-ups)
2) flamer inges will always loose to vet PGs due to extremely low health, not to mention MP upgrade.
3) no point to upgrade ZiS guns, if you're going to heavily abuse infantry - each will drain +20 mp (most valuable resource with mass infantry), the usefulness is minimal as well, since if you mass infantry, your opponent most likely will turn to do likewise, since PG blobs always win soviet ones. Sturmovye are rather to be used against fortification, that PE doesn't have, or as armor support, since they barely cost the money, if you go mass infantry.

Any comments? Would be nice to have some intelligent argument (=discussion) on soviet infantry strats against PE

Yeah I would leave ingenrey at home, once they get shot at they die, even on a sneak flank. sturmovie never impressed me, still only 4 man squad. upgrade cost + additional muni cost to build can be a drain. especially if you plan to tech and upgrade to anything useful

Dennis said NKVD molotovs i agree, I just started working these into my builds and im impressed by the moltov atleast. the lack of a retreat is still a liability/handicap though. So i usually just stick with conscripts w/moltov. Man if NKVD squads could retreat they'd be some serious win

strelky are always win, red banner isnt that great vs PE. its countered any way you go ppsh/dp28 lose to zealed mp44/g43. I'll usually stick with strelky/conscript rifles and tech up to Guards which never let me down, comrade
You can win infantry battles vs PE with strelky and conscript molotovs alone. just try outnumber them 3:1, it guarantess victory. by the time Guards hit the fiel if Pe havent been dominating and arent too vetted you should bully them easy. At this point when you have infantry superiority you need to concentrate on anti armor.

expect mortars and/or p4's at some point. I like tank hunters over AT guns, but im biased towards infantry anyway almost all my builds are infantry heavy ;D

t70/90 if you catch them unprepared can literally win the game
su-85 is about all the armor you'll really need unless you feel bold and have the resources for t34's
SU-85 should win vs marder if you're fighting at max range, as the su85 is harder to hit

the game is decided on early to mid game with infantry engagments and if its a closer battle, light armor. try to keep your field presence up and win early.
if PE takes map control it will be a very uphill battle and once you play outside of your comfort zone you will start to make mistakes

If all else fails and you're losing momentum/field presence, call in a couple katyusha and let loose the dogs of war

Last edited April 29, 2011 at 4:56 AM by REDcommissar

IJoe wrote:

Zerstörer wrote:
Everybody loves tanks, but you can really go infantry heavy strats against PE easier than vs WH.
2 Engies +3Conscripts +CS
Then Strelky with DP28 + AT squads can take care of any light vehicle, while 2 flamer Engies will help vs the PE infantry. Then transition to upgraded Zis Guns + select Doc. Sturmovie can also curb the effectiveness of MP44 squads a bit.

Very doubtful, this will actually work:
1) hunting down vehicles with mobs draws a lot of your attention, and it's rather risky, unless your opponent simply lets you do that time after time (mines, mortar HT, all sort of set-ups)
2) flamer inges will always loose to vet PGs due to extremely low health, not to mention MP upgrade.
3) no point to upgrade ZiS guns, if you're going to heavily abuse infantry - each will drain +20 mp (most valuable resource with mass infantry), the usefulness is minimal as well, since if you mass infantry, your opponent most likely will turn to do likewise, since PG blobs always win soviet ones. Sturmovye are rather to be used against fortification, that PE doesn't have, or as armor support, since they barely cost the money, if you go mass infantry.

Any comments? Would be nice to have some intelligent argument (=discussion) on soviet infantry strats against PE

AT infantry and Snipers, and wait until the Sniper Ace coming out. Then snipe the base defense flaks. After that capture it. I'll look into the build order if you wish. ;)

Just take a closer look at the kettenkrad ;).

Last edited May 2, 2011 at 4:22 PM by snailcommando

Like those guys above, The build order is must be flexible or it gonna be stupid.
The most common tatic of PE is... pzgre blob with HT support. So my counter-tatic (including BO) is:
Ingerery-Command squad-3 conscript- sniper squad hide in conscript blob. Because the weakness of the early pzgre squad is 3 men so as long as you can tear them down fast you will get aventage. sniper team hide in conscript blob to prevent PE target your sniper (learned from a guy who I dont know who he is, actually it's a US tatic against PE). Then use Zis from afar as anti-armor support with the inf backbone is strelky with SMG. Then go for the T-34 as they have imba armor but still economic (that's what i think). Base on situation of the early game, recruit more sniper to wipe out pzgre faster or more conscript to withstand longer is your choice.
There are some other PE tatics outhere, but... I dont see it yet or dont have any counter tatic, like early crush recon car with aggressive pzgre attack (of the expert AI), my early conscripts cannot completely repel them that leading to... You know what it is

I just throw tanks at both Wehrmacht and PE alike, works for me. My build order if you want to try it:

1. 3 Igenery(Send 1st and 3rd squad to cap points, 2nd will build RA tent)

2.Next is preference:

-Either go with some conscripts(I don't due to the fact that 2-3 Ingenery do the same job but better, because you can cover more ground)

-Get a command squad(If you plan to get this unit do it early so they rank up and you get great bonuses. But they're not so important where you have to get them at the start of the game for 2 reasons. 1 you need to cover ground as fast as possible in the begging. and 2. They are too expensive for a starting unit)

-Or Tech for your Support Barracks and/or Tank Hall(I do this because I normally have the resources by this time to do so.)

3. Upgrading Your Tank Hall and/or Support Barracks

-Upgrade your tank hall and/or support barracks so you can start building better units while your Ingenery are moving up and maintaining your territory.

4. Better Reinforcements

-Now before you start building tanks I recommend one thing get upgraded SU's first, you'll save yourself a lot of frustration and resources trying to use SU-85's. Sure SU-100's arrant cheap, but they're a lot more efficient, same goes for T34's.

-Or start building your sharpshooters and mortars, etc. Again I recommend upgrading your mortars and AT guns before you even consider getting them.

5. Try and eventually upgrade all units you plan to use and repeat step 4.(I also try to get a IS sometimes if I have enough resources)

Normally, when I win I come out with:

3 SU-100's
1 ISU
1-2 IS
3-5 T-34/84(I think it's 84. The upgraded one. lol)

Just my BO if you want to, play around with it and correct any errors in my plan that you run into. :)

Hope it works for you.

Last edited May 6, 2011 at 10:12 AM by Evisela

Evisela wrote:

Normally, when I win I come out with:

3 SU-100's
1 ISU
1-2 IS
3-5 T-34/84(I think it's 84. The upgraded one. lol)

whoa, of course you cant lose with all that :o

But I will also pull out of my ass a Jagd, 24 panthers and 13 marders. Oh, and you can't win without an ATHT. :P

Kinda pointless advice to say you just get all those tanks and win.

That's about...80-90 pop....or does it just happen to be on of those no pop no balance games?

I play with pop-cap. lol