Let's talk Brits...

Ah yes, the British army. My most loathed Company Of Heroes faction. For the other 3 relic armies, i have developed a pretty good starting style, but with the Brits, i just don't know what to build. Not to mention that their veterancy and healing systems encourage blobbing.

They are certainly the most unique faction, which makes them so much harder to learn, so i ask you guys, what should i do at the beginning? What units should i build first, and in what order? When should i order my Field Support Truck, and then Armor Command Truck? When should i move my H.Q.? How do i avoid blobbing my units? How do i effectively deal with armored cars and tanks? What do i do with my Captain? If anybody could give me some advice on any of these areas (or any other British areas) it would be much appreciated.

Why even bother? Brits are a failure!  ;D

Touché...

Use RMC :P. Way better than Normal Brits ;D.

Take all I say with a pinch of salt, I'm pretty inexperienced at CoH. Actually I only really like CoH from afar, like a football fan likes football even if he doesn't play it.

But anyway I'm going to fire off some general suggestions:

Moving the HQ. That should probably be done as early as possible (of course you need enough units to defend your base. Early Bren Carrier can be good for pushing back enemy squads) to capitalize on a high resource point from the get go. There is of course the danger of getting pinned by an MG at your base. This is a tricky balance. See brits play Rails and Metals and they always go for that high point on the right side, but it's right in the middle of the two sides. It takes a good mix of moxie and reservation. But, ideally it should be on the highest resource point possible. Of course, Brits don't have an FHQ or a halftrack to reinforce from, so you need to factor in the HQ as an FHQ too. AND, it's the only way for them to lock down/OP sectors. Putting it in a defensible spot is a good idea, with green cover and/or some buildings nearby. Try to spread out your different trucks, they each bring in resources. I think the support truck and armour truck bring in fewer resources than the HQ truck but you can buy upgrades to make them better, as well as speed upgrades to make your side as a whole more mobile.

You could say the command system for Brits encourages blobbing. Well it does encourage keeping infantry together, but that doesn't mean you can't micro. Brit infantry are best used in cover. Remember to use PIAT ambushes for example to get some nice rear armour hits on advancing tanks. Recon squads don't need a lieutenant to move through enemy/neutral territory at full speed (and I think they have a small detection radius. BTW, if an enemy mine is detected, any sapper squads can defuse it, not just minesweeper squads) You can use these for small scale flanks. Or in the later game, separate your infantry into mixed bags with a lieutenant behind each one for full scale flanking manoeuvres. Lieutenants are fragile, so you should try to keep them back. If you can, don't rely on the "follow unit" ability because they usually run out of cover or something. Try to micro them individually and keep them back; they have decent command range. And try to rack up the vet, same as SU command squad.

AFAIK, the lieutenant is like an offensive officer and the captain is a defensive officer. I think the captain only has effect in friendly territory, increasing attacking and defensive power to units within that sector, but I often see it used in replays along with the main blob. Probably to try and gain vet. I believe once a captain gains vet 3 you get a command point and some extra goodies.

I could go on all day with this. Suffice it to say that Brits are probably a more complex faction that most consider. You probably wouldn't get that impression from the average Brit player, and the most effective way to play Brits may well be the noobiest, but you don't have to be that way with them.

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 7:31 PM by SnappingTurtle

Everyone remember theres gonna be some ToV changes. Stalking vet wont be as effective, Stuarts/Stags will avade Shercks and fire like M-8s. Roos will be nerfed, same thing with Stag 0.5cal.

I cant remeber where Ive read It (before ToV) but there were stats of what top Brit players do at the start of a 1v1 match (more than 100 battles analised). How often they build 3rd Tommy squad or a BREN carrier before getting T-2, what upgrades should Tommies have (like only 7% of Tommies wrere upgraded with nades vs PE but 47% versus WH, first Tommies allmost allways have BRENs even vs WH), etc.
Then there were build orders to standard German tactics and a scale (1 to 10) of how effective those build orders are.
Finnaly witch points to cap in what order on ranked maps and where to place trucks.

The British army was from the start created as a low on firepower, trained, Standard Operation Procedure army, motorized but slow and cautious (especially compared to US). Thats becouse most people saw it (the real WWII thing) that way and thats why I like it.

Im suprised Relic ballanced OF UK (not ToV) since everything (MP costs, retreat modifiers, early game depends on Truck deployment instead of different type of teching, tank uasge) they do is unique. But Im much more suprised how they ruined it in ToV. >:(

Suffice to say I/we made the RMC to fix the following 'failings' that make Brits so unpopular.

-Slow movement and Lieut= blob ftw cause you can't flank(the most basic principle that made COH so unique)
-Uber resource bonus to compensate for the lack of speed and therefore capping ability
-Camping sim city
-NO FUCKING CHOICE AS TO HOW YOU TECH. Same old boring strat ridiculously predictable where all you have to think about is...is it a fast Cromwell or a fucking Roo? Only three tiers instead of 4
-Un-killable vetted brit infantry blob due to stacking vet

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 7:50 PM by Zerstörer

Thanks for the advice, SnappingTurtle. A couple of things:
I'm pretty sure Sappers without the Disposal & Detection upgrade can't deactivate Mines.
The extra Command Point you get from Lieutenant level 3 veterancy comes when i have already gotten everything from my doctrine, so it's effectively useless. To tell you the truth, actually, i don't think i've ever gotten a Captain to vet 3...
PIAT Ambush is annoying, because the idiots don't stay camouflaged.

Thanks for the advice, Paciat. I think the Kangaroo could use a price increase, which is certainly saying something, since the Brits are so dam expensive. Although i don't think the Staghound needs a nerf, though.

Blackbishop & Zerstörer, i do very much intend to use your new Brits when i am able.

Starting queues
For Bren/BiB: Build tommy and cap closest point to base (have to because of slow movement). Recon section caps future HQ area. Second unit is bren that goes to the first built tommy squad and picks them up. HQs relocates to chosen area, builds LT and builds FS truck. Squad in bren upgrades to bren guns.

For 3 tommies: Build LT first while recon section caps future HQ area. As soon as LT is done, relocate truck. Build 2 more tommies. First is nades against wehr or brens against PE. Second is always brens. Build FS truck.

General tips
- Only build a stuart if your enemy is PE and he's using HTs. They get massive bonuses against halftracks but do pretty poorly against everything else. Go instead for a fast crom after your captain is built.
- Try not to build emplacements unless you really NEED to. They're usually a waste of resources against a decent player.
- Build a CCS (medic tent) near your HQ around the time you are building your FS truck. It will be invaluable throughout the game.
- A vet 3 captain gives bonus resources to the sector he's in. He also makes Brit infantry in his friendly sector EXTREMELY difficult to suppress and increases their resilience further. Victor target is useful against gren blobbing players if you have a priest on the field since it essentially doubles the shots it can put out. He gains experience from all units in the sector regardless of ownership but only applies his bonus to troops within friendly sectors.
- A tommy squad completely in green cover recovers from suppression faster than a single MG42 deals it. This makes them impossible to suppress.
- Detection and Disposal sappers move at full speed in enemy territories. You can use this to flank bunkers and plant charges on them, far easier than building a mortar in range or pummelling it with piats and arty. A creeping smoke barrage from an arty doctrine CCT or a smoke nade from a riflenade section can make this very easy. The charges are more powerful than those of commandos and will instantly kill even a defensive doctrine bunker.

Or you could just use RMC.

also dont forget about arty doct and 1 sec lt. arty  :o ;D

cant stress how many times this has been a gamebreaker, in my experiences and im sure many others too

Thanks a lot, GodlikeDennis. But as i stated previously, i'll try the Eastern Front Brits when i am able.

And REDcommissar...

REDcommissar wrote:
also dont forget about arty doct and 1 sec lt. arty  :o ;D

I have no idea what that means... ???

Choose the Royal Canadian Artillery Doctrine and unlock Forward Observer Artillery (think that's the right name) and then officers can call in artillery barrages in the area around them (like SU Command Squad arty) except the Lieutenant's arty's first shell comes in almost immediately after it's called, suppressing/pinning the target blob. Then if they don't retreat, about seven more shells in very tight grouping come in in quick succession. Uber arty.

Thanks. Isn't that like 150 Munitions or something? I never really have the money for that... Plus you have to get the officer pretty close to the enemy, so unless he is behind something, such as a building, it's a big risk.

Theoretically it does have it's flaws. You should try and find some replays featuring its use at gamereplays.org/companyofheroes and see if you think it's overpowered or not.

P.S. Getting the officer close enough isn't as challenging as it sounds when he's got 5 tommy squads in front of him :D

Thanks for the link, but where do i find the videos? ???

The main page isn't displaying right for me right now. But if you go into the menu at the top, go into replays and you can search/browse there. In the home menu you can see some other media, maybe find a video about it, or some mention of it in the Brit strategy section. Check the forum, I'm sure it's been discussed to death there.

Yeah, it is displaying very weirdly. I'll have to check back later. Thanks.

Ok before I pull all my hair out....Pariah, are you saying you're a donor, commenting and discussing EF WITHOUT being able to play soviets or RMC?  :o

Zerstörer wrote:
Ok before I pull all my hair out....Pariah, are you saying you're a donor, commenting and discussing EF WITHOUT being able to play soviets or RMC?  :o

Not only that!! He donated 500 bucks :o!! The only thing you need pariah, is to format your pc, your hardware is good, just make sure you install a x64 OS (WIN Vista/7).

Paria also has some severe troubles with downloading stuff (some connection problems, maybe some traffic limitations), AFAIK  :(

Haha, yeah. I love you guys that much. ;D

After many attempts to install 7 (both 32 & 64 bit) on both of my brand new hard drives, i decided to just take them down to the local computer shop and get them to format them, so i can try again from scratch.

And when my service contract with this provider runs out (i think about August next year), i'll switch to someone hopefully more reliable.

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Post Merge: [time]1303607262[/time]

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This is good:
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=770497

Last edited April 24, 2011 at 1:07 AM by pariah

With brits, there are no real starting units. it all depends on the situation.

I suppose, but i usually find it best to start with a Lieutenant, send my Tommy squad capturing towards the middle, and then send my Lefty to capture the 'safe' points, usually in the corners of the map, where you won't find the enemy at the beginning of the game. Then attach him to an Infantry Section when he's done.

Just putting the question out there but how do you deal with a Hetzer spam? Not on the EF but in VCoH as the Brits. Apart from the 17 p which are emplacements or very immobile sapper piat teams I cant think of any real effective counter. Can someone please enlighten me?  :(

The problem is that Brits don't have any viable anti-tank.

- PIATs are decent weapons, but Sappers are fucking pathetic.
- Anti-tank guns are rebellious motherfuckers, and the Brit version is stationary, so it shouldn't be too hard to avoid/bombard once discovered, and maybe even turn it on the enemy...
- Fireflies are pretty good with a Command Tank, but are super-expensive, and with average Sherman armor. Losing them isn't hard to do (Hetzers are very good versus them), and they are a fucking pain to replace, what with the price and production time...
- Brens Button ability is good support, but you need something else to actually do the damage.

Blob of 2 sappers, 1 bren, 3 lieutants. Order the whole group to attack a hetzer then pic the bren sqaud and order to button the hetzer > done.

I actually like the brits, so here are some pointers;
1: Use the RMC!: This is crucial, but the normal brits build too slow and there weird tech lineup cause you to waste time and energy trying to get the lieutenants, then the captain, and then finally the other mobile trucks. The RMC makes it so you could buy them faster.
2: Play on maps where you can sit back and build up: If you want aggressive play, then go with the Us or the Soviets, otherwise, pick the brits, choose the artillery doctrine, and let you shells do the talking. Get a couple Marine engineers with the sapper upgrade and blow any bridges up, then barb wire those bridges. Put MG nest at places you don't want a pesky infantry unit from sneaking in. Then, get it where you can either build the 12 pounder howitzers, or the M7 priest.
3: Launch artillery, then cap: The brilliance of the brits is that they can wait for their artillery to finish, then mop up and capture points. Use creeping barrages to do damage over a line/formation of enemy infantry.

Now, to anyone who says 'but the brits suck cause they ain't got any tank killers', i say you are wrong! The Sherman firefly, the comet, or the M!0 are all viable options, and the Piats on the marine engineers are good when you use their ambush, they can knock out pumas.

In essence, camp, build arty, and rain hell from the heavens.

Can't speak for the Royal Marine Corp, but the Sapper Ambush is dreadfully faulty. It often doesn't let you use it, even when they are in cover, and they always come out of camouflage after a while anyway. In this picture, i am assuming it doesn't work because 1 guy is standing out in the open, despite the squad as a whole being in green cover. I wish they would fucking THINK...

I don't want to say that but PIAT ambush is not very useful anyway.

I use this ablility rather to hide them from enemy inf who would slaughter them....

for brits i usaully go fron brens carriers very good in game for rushes and killing pio squads,Mgs. then build more inf for territory and quick get sappers to get piats and arty.

I don't see why it is that hard to learn with the Brits.  It's a matter of getting a LT followed by 2 infantry sections, along the way upgrade your sections with the Brenguns.  Then if you encounter MGs, simply get your recon squad and snipe the MG gunner and charge your forces around the MG or use your heroic charge after vet 1 from Lt.  Or as all Brit players do just plop down a mortar pit and let it do the work.  Get your Casualty Clearing Center then tech to T2 and get 3 sappers with PIATs and park your truck yet on another munitions point.  After that you get a captain and start getting a Armor Command truck on yet another munitions point.  When you are up against vehicles you'd simply button it and attack with PIATs once again.  If you encounter more challenges use the instant artillery to instantly pin and cause massive damage to your unsuspecting opponent.  In a game with a big VP war, you can take it the easy way and drop a commando on a VP and save your ass once again.  Or just getting the 17lber to save your ass from a vehicle rush THAT YOU DESERVE.  An example would be like:

Player1: haha I have got a fast panzer4 Infantry Support Tank/Ostwind/Panther and my opponent has got nothing but just 1 PIAT Sapper and no armor command truck.  I'm going to end the game that easy and rush into his base and lockdown and kill everything he has, since he's got nearly nothing to counter it!  Golden opportunity.

Player2 (Brit): oh no it's a panzer4, I got caught off guard by a lot.  What do I do to counter it?  I am so behind the war!  Wait, let me button the tank with my Bren squad and build a cheap and too cost effective 17lber.  Ill also drop an instant artillery officer barage on his tank and his schreck squads.  That will show him!(panzer ends up being buttoned multiple times and is forced to stay within the 17lber arc of fire which then either destroys the tank or makes it very low health, also force retreats the Schreck squads)

Player1: great now my panzer is forced away from that area and I can't even base rush and kill all of his squads like planned now he plopped that down.  He should have been punished for being behind, especially since his trucks provide resource bonuses!  Now my investment I have been rushing for is now nearly useless.  He deserved to get punished!

Player2: haha brits are so forgiving ;D.  You loose to my one click abilities you noob ;D

I basically sumed up a regular Brit game.  It's just spam this and that, and abuse these one click abilities and build whatever you need to win you the game.  It's that easy.  If you don't believe me, check other high level people stats who play Brits from time to time.  You will notice even though they don't play that faction as much as the others (or maybe they do) they end up with a better win to loose ratio than their most played faction or the others (Wehr, PE, US)

Ps:
As it does look like a rant, I am just complaining about the faction design, I am in most cases perfectly fine countering against what they have on field.

Last edited February 25, 2013 at 5:48 AM by 132

Did you really bump a thread just to complain about a faction that was once broken, but now the laughing stock of the CoH armies?

You sound frustrated.