Wehrmacht countering early Soviet Inf spam, what to do?

Hey guys,

What can wehrmacht do against early soviet spam?

As soviets, I'm not scared of wehrmacht at all. I take out MG's with snipers (especially with their arty), and overwhelm infantry with Conscripts, Command Squad and Strelky.

What should wehrmacht do to win an early inf battle?

Should they be spamming Volks, keeping them together and going for MP40's/vetting up?

I find wehrmacht so easy to deal with in early game, and by the time they find their feet it's too late.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated by my friend who I keep slaughtering ;)

wish I knew, I get rolled usually by soviet sniper/arty abuse. can be rather frustrating if your not used to being on the receiving end  ;D

Yeh I'm amazed how I can't beat my PE friend, yet my Wehrmacht friend can't possibly beat me.

Talk about rock, paper, scissor ;)

I might go volk, MG, volk, volk at the start of the game using 2 volks and the MG as a team like against US and using the other volk to hunt lone scripts/ingenery around the map and take buildings. I don't get flamers unless my enemy is fond of buildings (which I can kill will mass volks anyway) and usually get MP40s as soon as possible. They're very powerful against Russians. First unit from krieg is either halftrack or mortar depending on the enemy's blobbing tendency. I usually go Blitz for stormies. Bundled nades are death to Russians.

Or I might go volk X4 at the start of the game and go assault nades first. Very angry strat.

Interesting, I'd imagine Storm Troopers to do quite well, but they're expensive and might get chewed up by the snipers.

Either way it seems like you need atleast 3 Volks squads which is what I figured. So you think MP40's are the go? The next question is how fast should you go for veterancy?

p.s. I will also admit that grenades would be effective for retreating the Russians if nothing else. At least you gain the ground..

Last edited April 10, 2011 at 4:05 AM by ForceMultiplier

Halftrack, MP40 volks and cloaked stormies are all good counters to the sniper teams. Assault grenades are very OP, since the stun radius is far too large.

Vet is usually not something I bother about early on against Soviets. It's really not that helpful for volks to be vetted and Stormies' only threat will be from snipers so they wouldn't really benefit. I go for T4, panther first so my stormies are free to all use MP44s while my Panther roams doing AT chores. Tank vet 1 is essential. Nothing else is too important except for infantry vet eventually.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Halftrack, MP40 volks and cloaked stormies are all good counters to the sniper teams. Assault grenades are very OP, since the stun radius is far too large.

Vet is usually not something I bother about early on against Soviets. It's really not that helpful for volks to be vetted and Stormies' only threat will be from snipers so they wouldn't really benefit. I go for T4, panther first so my stormies are free to all use MP44s while my Panther roams doing AT chores. Tank vet 1 is essential. Nothing else is too important except for infantry vet eventually.

+1

haha all your suggestions have been helpful :)

But still finding it difficult.

Do you guys honestly beat Soviet players or the AI on Normal, Hard, Expert with Wehrmacht?

Using wehrmacht sure I can beat soviet AI on any difficulty level.

But beating a sniper spamming soviet player online is a whole other animal altogether

CPU is a whole different game...

Play player levels and you'll get a drastically new experience...

CPUs don't preform neccesary functions, like repairing damaged vehicles and reinforcing wounded or depleted squads. They, also, can get stuck with upgrades (While playing soviets) so much that they "Jam" production in all their buildings, which forces them to spam a doctrinal unit, and that's no fun.

http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/portals.php?show=page&name=company-of-heroes-aggressive-mgs-an-anti-us-guide

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http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/portals.php?show=page&name=stratguide-supportvet

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Both these Strats work well against the sov's and the Amis; both in p v p and AI.

Yep HT's and bikes all those MG's work wonders supressing early  Sov Infantry. A question, How well do the bikes stand up against sharpshooters? AI  pio's certainly do repair bikes. At least they did in v1.3.02. I confess I haven't played with the German Factions much since the patch came out. I'm more interested in the changes to the Sovs.

Use your pio's ingenery and volks to place a little barbed wire as they advance. A carefully placed a section here and there; not only slows down infantry and bike advances; but jams them up so they become easy meat for the mortar and MG Squads.

ForceMultiplier wrote:
Yeh I'm amazed how I can't beat my PE friend, yet my Wehrmacht friend can't possibly beat me.

Talk about rock, paper, scissor ;)

As for Beating your friend in the Kampf gruppe

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5286.msg62028#msg62028 

^Posted link is broken.

Finally beat my PE mate :)

Still never have, and probably never will lose to Wehrmacht :P

Find a good enough opponent and you will.

wehrmacht are not to be written off by any stretch of the imagination. :)

Yeah! Back in the days, I recall wehr overwhelming US, who are a lot stronger early on, than the sovs. Just don't let sov player to get enough resources at the start. Spam bikes and pyro-pios f.e. Bikes in quantities of two-three deal good suppression, and pios burn down anyone, who wasn't fast enough to retreat.
Though it's been a while, since I played a good game (with some interesting opponent that is) as wehr, and I prefer to beat amis, when playing germans.  :-[ :-[

Last edited April 16, 2011 at 12:09 AM by IJoe

Both Soviets and Wehrmacht have a poor early game but the major difference is that Wehr has a MG unit, which is matched in soviets by their cheap, spammable and quite decent infantry. (Command Beats Volks, 2 Conscripts in at least yellow cover beat volks, now pair Command and a Conscript.  ;) )

IJoe wrote:
Yeah! Back in the days, I recall wehr overwhelming US, who are a lot stronger early on, than the sovs. Just don't let sov player to get enough resources at the start. Spam bikes and pyro-pios f.e. Bikes in quantities of two-three deal good suppression, and pios burn down anyone, who wasn't fast enough to retreat.
Though it's been a while, since I played a good game (with some interesting opponent that is) as wehr, and I prefer to beat amis, when playing germans.  :-[ :-[

Bikes can't supress. However, they deal quite good damage to conscripts, so building them is no bad idea really.

Key element in Wehr early against Soviets is the MG42. Get at least 2 of them, and use them to cover each other. This, combined with focus fire from Volks, a Pio and maybe 1-2 bikes makes it incredibly hard for the soviet to fight you.

I prefer using 1 bike, 2 volks, 2 pios and 3 mg42s. If feasible I try to get support vet 1. With vet 1 they simply massacre soviet troops.

While bikes are not reliable suppression tools if you have a few of them shooting at the same thing it is possible to suppress

REDcommissar wrote:
While bikes are not reliable suppression tools if you have a few of them shooting at the same thing it is possible to suppress

This myth does and does and does not die. The Bike Mg42 does NOT have a supression modifier, so it's not able to supress.

MG42 - Bike
MG42 - Squad

Special attention to the point "Suppression - 0 at L,M,S" This means there is NO supression dealt at long, medium and short distance.
For comparision to a supression weapon check out the MG42 - Squad.

This seems to be true  :-[
So it must be those pyro pios who deal suppression in this combo...
Ah well, I don't wehr all that often, and frankly, don't care much.
Although I apologize to anyone who got mislead by my advice. Nonetheless, bikes and pyro pios are still a valid strat.

Im a statistic whore myself, but at the end of the day I've been suppressed by bikes b4 so I dunno what to tell ya ???

REDcommissar wrote:
Im a statistic whore myself, but at the end of the day I've been suppressed by bikes b4 so I dunno what to tell ya ???

Depends...what unit? If it's engies, they are suppressed by farts almost, if all 5 of your Volks fire at the engies at the same time they're suppressed nearly instantly.

Cranialwizard wrote:
Depends...what unit? If it's engies, they are suppressed by farts almost, if all 5 of your Volks fire at the engies at the same time they're suppressed nearly instantly.

Rifles do suppress, bike LMG dosnt.
Another interesting thing about the bike MG is that its less efective (less acurate) when it fires at multiple targets while all infantry LMGs and HMGs are more accurate.

The new EF 1.4 patch will nerf Soviet sharpshooters HP so bikes will be more usefull.

yay another new soviet nerf! what next?  ::)

I hope theres some major work being done on soviet doctrines because 33% of all doctrinal abilitys are useless

Last edited April 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM by REDcommissar

REDcommissar wrote:
yay another new soviet nerf! what next?  ::)

I hope theres some major work being done on soviet doctrines because 33% of all doctrinal abilitys are useless

the sniper nerf has been discussed for a while, don't know why the surprise. Afaik, the only "useless" doctrine currently is Propaganda. The others are fine.

Propaganda is a useless doctrine, but there are useless abilities besides.

blackbishop wrote:

REDcommissar wrote:
yay another new soviet nerf! what next?  ::)

I hope theres some major work being done on soviet doctrines because 33% of all doctrinal abilitys are useless

the sniper nerf has been discussed for a while, don't know why the surprise. Afaik, the only "useless" doctrine currently is Propaganda. The others are fine.

-trenches? never seen them used, useless for a faction based around fast cap offense
-what about god of war? we know this already is being fixed but still useless
-MG bunker? its the most expensive and not used competitvely, should be cheaper by 100MP 10 fuel
-Red tide? comes way way too late to be effective, should be earlier

thats 4/6 of just propoganda

IJoe wrote:
Propaganda is a useless doctrine, but there are useless abilities besides.

AFAIK, a doctrine is made of 6 abilities.

REDcommissar wrote:

blackbishop wrote:

REDcommissar wrote:
yay another new soviet nerf! what next?  ::)

I hope theres some major work being done on soviet doctrines because 33% of all doctrinal abilitys are useless

the sniper nerf has been discussed for a while, don't know why the surprise. Afaik, the only "useless" doctrine currently is Propaganda. The others are fine.

-trenches? never seen them used, useless for a faction based around fast cap offense
-what about god of war? we know this already is being fixed but still useless
-MG bunker? its the most expensive and not used competitvely, should be cheaper by 100MP 10 fuel
-Red tide? comes way way too late to be effective, should be earlier

thats 4/6 of just propoganda

And that gives me a point ;). That's why Propaganda is being reworked.