General balance after losing HQ

so the most of you know in games like 3vs3 or 4vs4 it can happen that one side can break thru the lines and destroy the base of one in your team. if that happens its realy hard to push the army back and save your mate so you can goon to a counter attack.

but in 90% the game is decided after one of your mates loses his base.
and there comes an idea

its not new
i saw it the first time in company of heroes: online

if you loses your hq you can call in a group with a mg team, pioneers and a at gun.

i think its a realy good idear because the game isn´t finished and you realy have a new chance.

and you all know good players always protect a destroyed base with 1-2 units. to call in a singel pioneer is wasted.

so i hope you all like this idea

Last edited April 9, 2011 at 8:22 PM by evilSpike

I never understood why the Americans only get an Engineer squad, whilst the Wehrmacht get a nice bunch of units.

But either way, i don't think any kind of reinforcements matter at that point. Sure, you could give the players a large group of heavy tanks to fight the enemy back, but that would likely result in a never-ending tug-of-war.

oh no
i donn´t want tanks

i only think one at gun and an infantry squad or a mg-team should come with the engeneer so you realy have a chance to rep your hq if the enemy have only one unit there to protect that place

Yes, i realize you weren't asking for tanks, but my point is that reinforcements really don't matter when your H.Q. is gone, because your enemy has already crushed you. It just won't be possible to rebuild and start again without extremely heavy reinforcements.

If you don't like to get knocked out, play victory points ;)

But I agree with you. One AT gun and one MG would be better than the unbalanced callins now. Wehrmacht with 2 pios, 1 volks and 1 officer but Allies only with one engineer squad. If there's no deeper sense in gameplay for this issue, I don't know why it shouldn't be changed.

Wehrmacht:

1x MG42
1x PAK38
1x Pioneer

Panzerelite:

This is not easy. Maybe a different thing:

1x Anti tank Grenadiers with Shreck
1x Sturmgrenadiere with Stg44
1x Normal Grenadiers

Brits:

Stays the same.

Edit: would be better if they could at least call in a tommy squad with Brens and a sapper squad with PIATs.

Americans:

1x 57mm ATG
1x M1917 hMG
1x Engineer

Soviets:

1x 57mm ZiS2
1x Strelky with DP28 upgrade
1x Ingenery

(Ostheer):

1x SdKfz. 10
1x MG34
1x Tank Hunters (Because PAK40 sounds much too OP for this job though there might be problems with this unit in defending, because I think when it comes to base raping, the blob of squads camping in your HQ territory will make the Tank Hunters die before they are in range to fire their Shreck)

Last edited April 9, 2011 at 9:40 PM by MaxiKing6

Sure, i guess that would work, but it doesn't come into affect until end-game, so it really makes virtually no difference. Plus the devs don't want to modify the relic armies.

You got a point here, pariah. They only change things that are vital for the game to be balanced, but if you lose you HQ, game is definetely over. Just suggesting a bit.  :)

Guys, this would be changing the vanilla game - will not happen.
So, unless you plan to continue daydreaming, you might wanna turn your attention to something else.  ;)

MaxiKing6 wrote:
If you don't like to get knocked out, play victory points ;)

But I agree with you. One AT gun and one MG would be better than the unbalanced callins now. Wehrmacht with 2 pios, 1 volks and 1 officer but Allies only with one engineer squad. If there's no deeper sense in gameplay for this issue, I don't know why it shouldn't be changed.

Wehrmacht:

1x MG42
1x PAK38
1x Pioneer

Panzerelite:

This is not easy. Maybe a different thing:

1x Anti tank Grenadiers with Shreck
1x Sturmgrenadiere with Stg44
1x Normal Grenadiers

Brits:

Stays the same.

Edit: would be better if they could at least call in a tommy squad with Brens and a sapper squad with PIATs.

Americans:

1x 57mm ATG
1x M1917 hMG
1x Engineer

Soviets:

1x 57mm ZiS2
1x Strelky with DP28 upgrade
1x Ingenery

(Ostheer):

1x SdKfz. 10
1x MG34
1x Tank Hunters (Because PAK40 sounds much too OP for this job though there might be problems with this unit in defending, because I think when it comes to base raping, the blob of squads camping in your HQ territory will make the Tank Hunters die before they are in range to fire their Shreck)

hell yeah,
that is exactly what i mean.
i think its not op its gives just all armys the same chance for a comeback

I don't want your dream bubble to pop like a balloon, but read IJoes post again. No changes to vanilla factions ;)

Edit: You may add that to Strong Volution though ;)

Last edited April 9, 2011 at 10:00 PM by MaxiKing6

If you really have your heart set on it, you could always bring it up with relic.

I guess it's because of the fact, that US has cheaper infantry, so they can build up their forces sooner.

Americans only get 1 enigy squad is because they parachute down anywhere you can see, instead of in front of your base where most likely the enemy is waiting.

But they have to head to the H.Q. anyway to repair it. It's really quite unlikely they'll get it repaired even a bit before getting blown away by all the tanks.

But at least you can call them in at an allied base and build a weapon support or something and pump out a couple snipers to help retake your base. Wehr is limited to the call in point, which will be completely swarmed with enemies. Besides, the entire point of losing your HQ is that it puts you at a severe disadvantage. If they destroyed your HQ and are camping in your base you have lost anyway.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Besides, the entire point of losing your HQ is that it puts you at a severe disadvantage. If they destroyed your HQ and are camping in your base you have lost anyway.

finally someone said it

If your HQ is gone, YOUR gone.

The only way this case wouldn't happen would be if it was a 4v4 and one player is horrible and gets the base owned by one or two tanks, and the more experienced players are busy holding the front lines. After those said tanks destroy the main base the other players may come to the weak player's aide and help him revive (And if he already had T4, he wouldn't have to completely rebuild)

That scenario is like a freak accident though. It rarely happens, if at all. The point of the "After your base is destroyed" units is to give players hope for a lost cause ;)

Loosing your HQ shouldn't be rewarded with a bunch of call in units.
If you loose your HQ
a) You've probably lost all your base buildings already and you're simply extending a long overdue defeat.
b)You probably never bothered to repair your HQ during the whole game when it was being bombarded.
c) In COHO, if I remember correctly, you were rewarded for hanging on as long as you could even if you lost a game leading to drawn out stupid games.
d) As previously said, we're not altering such core mechanics

Last edited April 10, 2011 at 12:37 PM by Zerstörer

Just don't be stupid ... build paks :P.

REDcommissar wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Besides, the entire point of losing your HQ is that it puts you at a severe disadvantage. If they destroyed your HQ and are camping in your base you have lost anyway.

finally someone said it

I take it that was sarcasm? :-\

totally

the only way I can see anyone coming back from having their base razed is if it was a 4v4 or something unbalanced to begin with

pariah wrote:

REDcommissar wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Besides, the entire point of losing your HQ is that it puts you at a severe disadvantage. If they destroyed your HQ and are camping in your base you have lost anyway.

finally someone said it

I take it that was sarcasm? :-\

I don't think that was sarcasm, more of relief :)

My point was that i said it before GodlikeDennis:

pariah wrote:
I never understood why the Americans only get an Engineer squad, whilst the Wehrmacht get a nice bunch of units.

But either way, i don't think any kind of reinforcements matter at that point. Sure, you could give the players a large group of heavy tanks to fight the enemy back, but that would likely result in a never-ending tug-of-war.

pariah wrote:
Yes, i realize you weren't asking for tanks, but my point is that reinforcements really don't matter when your H.Q. is gone, because your enemy has already crushed you. It just won't be possible to rebuild and start again without extremely heavy reinforcements.

pariah wrote:
Sure, i guess that would work, but it doesn't come into affect until end-game, so it really makes virtually no difference. Plus the devs don't want to modify the relic armies.

pariah wrote:
But they have to head to the H.Q. anyway to repair it. It's really quite unlikely they'll get it repaired even a bit before getting blown away by all the tanks.

Not to mention however many other people said it as well. ::)

But clearly you haven't heard that when I say something it is Divine Mandate. :P

Oh, well please accept my humble apology, Your Royal Highness. :-[

'Twas but a joke, my friend.

I think this thread can probably be closed. There's nothing useful to discuss here.

Yes, i realize that.

I second the locking of this topic.