Reinforcements

I've been wondering for a while but would it be a reasonable idea to put some sort of limit on reinforcements?

Reinforcements are basically the off map stuff that you call in using the ablilty bar. Stuff like rangers, airborne, hetzer, stormtroopers, etc.
The general problem with most of this stuff is that if you have a large manpower reserve you can literally keep calling them in.

My main problem with it is actually not that point, we already know that some units have limits such as Calliope, pershing, King tiger, priest, etc. It is those that have no limits which are the problems.

Lets take the Hetzer, ignoring its ungodly survival mechanisms. The hetzer was not produced in large enough numbers that it replaced the panzer IV yet in most games a majority of the tanks seemed to be Hetzers (based on several games I had). In no pop cap there could be upwards of ten or twelve tanks on the field at the same time!

The Hetzer costs 600 manpower to call in which could be said to be roughly the same price as the Calliope yet that tank has a limit of two!

The other sort of reinforcement is stuff like rangers for 400 manpower call in 4 riflemen and two bazooka men. Its true that its not accurate but with large enough numbers you can roll any tank. A similar sort is the airborne plus recoiless rifle blob with a similar effect.

Perhaps a way to solve this may not be limits but an increasing price. the more you call in the more you pay.

Last edited April 7, 2011 at 5:41 AM by Paladin88

Afaik all call-in units are limited. Hetzers have a limit of 4 iirc, i think relic put it(or was included on EF????). Same for rangers airborne, falls, etc.

Are you sure about that?

The StuH 42 assault gun seems to have no limit... :(

The general problem is that in good PvP cumulating 600+ manpower is really, really, really difficult.

cephalos wrote:
The general problem is that in good PvP cumulating 600+ manpower is really, really, really difficult.

Thats not a problem at all. You pay extra MP for not having fuel.

You can't criticize what happens in no-pop option. It's made for fun (I like it) so you agree with the fact things are not as it should be.

rangers arent harcapped, i routinely build ranger blobs of 4+ squad :-X

REDcomissar wrote:
rangers arent harcapped, i routinely build ranger blobs of 4+ squad :-X

Not in EF, at least not in normal mode... they are hard capped to three, i just checked it.

can it be made so that 88's can be reinforced?

About the flak 88 gun, I agree it should be able to be reinforced, same with the panzer elites quads (even though they can go down to 1 man) because the crews if they are not replaced means that there is no way at keeping the gun operating. It can be annoying when one of three crew members get randomly done in and then even if nothing happens for seven mnutes (you fend off the attack and may have plenty of time to reinforce but you just can't!) you will still have only two men when the attack comes around. If the other man gets done in as well, the third will immediately die and you lose the weapon! Maybe what could be done is like when you lose the MG-gunner on the top of the tank (like on shermans or panzer 4s), if the weapon is repaired the "gun" will be automatically reinforced at the end of repairs.

@paladin, IIRC If you get a gunner killed result on one of your tanks and repair it up. Your gunner is replaced  :)

Exactly, why not do it for the flak 88?

flak 88 cant get a gunner killed critical, so repairing it shouldnt replace "gunners"

I also dont think you should be able to reinforce them unless u have a halftrack nearby. otherwise u could just spam reinforce them whenever. and thats unbalanced

REDcommissar wrote:
flak 88 cant get a gunner killed critical, so repairing it shouldnt replace "gunners"

I also dont think you should be able to reinforce them unless u have a halftrack nearby. otherwise u could just spam reinforce them whenever. and thats unbalanced

+1

I think, reinforce must be limited & oriented for a map ("combat history specialisation"), or some sort.
If that is possible, reinforcements must be not simple limited, but is very special for the map battle ... (I hope you are understand.)

For example.
Kursk battle map can give to a player possibility call in tank platoon reinforcement & field artillery or IL-2 support ...
Kiev (if that map is present), give the possibility a light infantry reinforcement & very limited light & tank units.
Stalingrad can take a possibility a heavy & medium tank renforcements call in, soviet marines & veteran sniper group.

If that possible, that was great ...

That's true, I know that its not a "critcal hit" but it was just a suggestion.

The flak 88 gun needs at least two of the crew to operate, since there are only three crew members to operate the thing it isn't as easy to keep alive as it sounds.

Two snipers will easily end its miserable reign having only two men left is like inviting the enemy to kill the crew and man the weapon themselves, they won't care if they lose it, heck, it wasn't their's to begin with!

Since it is easier to use a halftrack to spam reinforce crew members than having a spare pio/PE squad come over to fix the gun that would make this idea better. If you still think that's easier you could make the gun "harder" to repair. Remember that mortar fire and artillery will decimate any surrounding infantry, your pios will be exposed carrying out repairs and you'll probably find it harder than you think to do it.

Also to repair, your manpower rate will be decreased. I actually reckon that halftracks will make the job easier (since they are the backbone of PE, right?).

On a second thought I wish to ask if you don't believe that gunners should be replaced by repairs how does that explain how the MG gunner on top of the tank returning!?!?

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Sturmovik wrote:
I think, reinforce must be limited & oriented for a map ("combat history specialisation"), or some sort.
If that is possible, reinforcements must be not simple limited, but is very special for the map battle ... (I hope you are understand.)

For example.
Kursk battle map can give to a player possibility call in tank platoon reinforcement & field artillery or IL-2 support ...
Kiev (if that map is present), give the possibility a light infantry reinforcement & very limited light & tank units.
Stalingrad can take a possibility a heavy & medium tank renforcements call in, soviet marines & veteran sniper group.

If that possible, that was great ...

Sorry for ignoring your post, no hard feeings right?

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 7:58 AM by Paladin88

I was referring to repairing a flak emplacement, repairing them should not replace their crew because they're not a tank. and thats how tank gunners are replaced, they're not reinforced but repaired. On the flip side the flak guns crew are reinforced, and the gun is repaired.

My comrade Im afraid thats just the way the game plays. And not to sound indifferent but you will just have to accept it and adapt your battle plans to compensate  :)
that is how wars are won

best of luck my inquisitive friend

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 8:15 AM by REDcommissar

@Sturmovik
That would only suit a campaign, but is absolutely unacceptable for any proper multiplayer.

OK. Understand.

Ballance & intensive battle action ... in MP are welcome.
In the other side ... thats why thare are many suggestions about new technics.

... and no hard feelings, of course.

@Sturmovik
What hard feelings can there be amongst brethren?  ;)

Hee hee, none whatsoever.

It doesn't matter if you make mistakes and lose... just be ready to kick his butt next time 'round!  :)

REDcommissar wrote:
I was referring to repairing a flak emplacement, repairing them should not replace their crew because they're not a tank. and thats how tank gunners are replaced, they're not reinforced but repaired. On the flip side the flak guns crew are reinforced, and the gun is repaired.

My comrade Im afraid thats just the way the game plays. And not to sound indifferent but you will just have to accept it and adapt your battle plans to compensate  :)
that is how wars are won

best of luck my inquisitive friend

You're probably right... I'm just making a suggestion that's all. Still its a little annoying...