How to counter Tank Hunter spam base rush? (with sharpshooter supporting)

Two games here. First a loss to TH spam with sharp-shooter support. Second, actually an earlier game, where I successfully (though inadventently) fended off the same strategy (minus sharpshooter). In the successful game I went Def with base-building mgs and registered artillery. In hindsight mine-spam around my base approaches would have helped in both games.

Any other input / constructive criticisms appreciated.

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Post Merge: [time]1302040236[/time]

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Both attached games patch 1.310
Both EFautomatchConds (wehr) vs. Admiral87 (Sov)
I (wehr) went def doc on the Langres game, Terror on Angoville;
Admiral was Breakthrough on both.

Last edited April 5, 2011 at 9:50 PM by plongstocking

You aren't seriously asking for strategy advice on a game where you skipped T1? If he had built conscripts you would have been seriously screwed. A fast tech to T2 should involve a FHQ so you can build volks. This lets you get fast MP40s, extremely good against SU and still get that fast halftrack, a good counter to the currently OP sniper team. Of course you could've just built T1 anyway. It worked in your other games.

The other games just let you steamroll him early since he didn't build conscripts. This gave him an extremely weak inital force and you took the map easily. You're not a bad player but these were very boring games. At least there were some good mines in there.

I wonder in what way will the sharpshooter team be nerfed this time?
Features are:
the weakest camouflage, thus hardly effective at any active countersniping
rate of fire is the slowest.

Benefits are:
two men, but this isn't supposed to be changed, no matter how much axis players wish it were, right?
arty, that costs 125 to acquire (not that much, really)

What are other possible solutions? Different reinforcement price (higher for the sniper, lower for the spotter) won't deal with the fact, that they'll still survive more often than other snipers.
Unless you make 'em drop like flies (literally) - always one/two-shotted by any enemy, you'll still consider them OP, since they'll be tougher to kill, than any other sniper. Oh, yeah! you can always take away their retreat ability, but most likely, people will still keep complaining.

Any thoughts?

Last edited April 6, 2011 at 9:52 AM by IJoe

Would people please stop complaining about the soviet sniper? It requires much more micro than any other sniper now as it lacks proper camo. It's reinforce cost is already very steep, especially considering how easy it is to spend your manpower as a Soviet player. Neither I, nor any of my IRL mates, have any problems countering the Soviet player. We simply keep our heads out of our arses and counter a challenge instead of whining about not being able to play without a brain. /sorry for rant, but I've had enough of the whining about the Soviet sniper.

I've only watched the first replay, but what I saw is that you would have totally dominated that tank hunter spam using Volks /w MP40 spam. A MG earlier on would also have helped a lot. You're a fairly decent player, but there are times when your units are just standing around, or your unit placements are really... bad. Like the one time when you face the MG off in the completely wrong direction away from all reinforcement points and support. I was twisting in pain when I saw that. You could have done so much more with it. There were also a couple times when you saw your enemy retreating you just stood around in your base instead of counter-attacking or expanding out again quickly. Considering how much your enemy was blobbing he should not have been very hard to beat with these changes in gameplay.

Last edited April 6, 2011 at 9:42 PM by Dot.Shadow

Dot.Shadow wrote:
Would people please stop complaining about the soviet sniper? It requires much more micro than any other sniper now as it lacks proper camo. It's reinforce cost is already very steep, especially considering how easy it is to spend your manpower as a Soviet player. Neither I, nor any of my IRL mates, have any problems countering the Soviet player. We simply keep our heads out of our arses and counter a challenge instead of whining about not being able to play without a brain. /sorry for rant, but I've had enough of the whining about the Soviet sniper

Золотые слова, дружище...
I am, as wel so fxckinfg tired of stupid wining about soviet sniper. I have encountered it as wehr and never found it to be OP/uncounterable. It's just different. Yes, it's better than other snipers due to its survivability, so what? It doesn't have to be a copy of wehr, or us, Just deal with it, and live on.

Last edited April 6, 2011 at 10:08 PM by IJoe

We've discussed why the sharpshooter is OP countless times. This is a thread asking for strategy not balance discussion.
This;

Dot.Shadow wrote:
It requires much more micro than any other sniper now as it lacks proper camo.

is so completely fucking wrong it's funny.

Basically, he lost because he skipped T1 for no apparent reason other to halftrack rush, in which case he should've at least built a forward HQ.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
We've discussed why the sharpshooter is OP countless times. This is a thread asking for strategy not balance discussion.
This;

Dot.Shadow wrote:
It requires much more micro than any other sniper now as it lacks proper camo.

is so completely fucking wrong it's funny.

Basically, he lost because he skipped T1 for no apparent reason other to halftrack rush, in which case he should've at least built a forward HQ.

This.

Until now, i thought this topic was to "prevent" nerfing snipers to oblivion, but the OP is asking for advice(my fault for not noticing it before).

If you feel inclined to discuss about it, we should do it on a different topic.

Thanks for the tips all. Looks like multiple MP40 Volks is the strategy to pursue.

plongstocking wrote:
Thanks for the tips all. Looks like multiple MP40 Volks is the strategy to pursue.

Careful with them. MP-40s are horrid while Volks are moving.

Cranialwizard wrote:

plongstocking wrote:
Thanks for the tips all. Looks like multiple MP40 Volks is the strategy to pursue.

Careful with them. MP-40s are horrid while Volks are moving.

Yep, these are only effective, when static. So pursue the "engage-stop" (repeat as required) type of attacks.

Last edited April 8, 2011 at 9:17 PM by IJoe

@mp40 bad on move thats because the whole of wehr is seems to be suited to defensive play

observation I had

REDcomissar wrote:
@mp40 bad on move thats because the whole of wehr is seems to be suited to defensive play

observation I had

are you sure? I thought MP40 didn't have accuracy penalties when moving. ???

100% sure

Yep, MP40s get a penalty while on the move. They are excellent for static and in-cover combat, and sometimes I use them to pick off enemy retreating squads. (Leave them on the route the enemy will most likely retreat on, in cover and waiting.)

If you're looking for a more mobile rapid fire, sorry, KCH is the way to go. LMG42 grens need to be stationary to use the LMGs.

From memory, MP40s have the worst moving accuracy modifier of any weapon. MP44s have 0.75 accuracy on the move (very good) and have a longer burst duration I believe. So MP40s should be used either leapfrogging between cover, defending an MG from flanks, dropped off by a halftrack or charging suppressed units. MP44s can be charged straight in without too much thought.

correct mp40 is worst on the move of all SMG

and another more interesting fact  is that mp44s are actually MORE accurate on the move than stationary!

REDcommissar wrote:
and another more interesting fact  is that mp44s are actually MORE accurate on the move than stationary!

No.
Theyre 25% less accurate. There in no weapon in CoH that is more accurate on the move.

Well if you crunch the numbers they have a 1.5 moving burst modieifer so they do 50% more damage potentially on the move

and they're only penalized 0.75 moving accuracy

so they actually do ~25% more damage on the move

like I said they're better on the move!

http://picly.us/coh/Weapon_MP44_Assault_Rifle.html

Last edited April 10, 2011 at 10:29 PM by REDcommissar

LOL, looks like i mixed up the MP40 with the MP44 ;D. Thanks guys.

Burst duration =/= damage output. You will deal 25% less dps regardless. You will fire longer but also have to go through your reload cycle sooner. The longer burst duration is just there to allow your troops to not randomly stop firing as they're charging the enemy, which is a very stupid sight.