Eastern Front 1.31 Patch

Eastern Front Fans,

The 1.31 patch is now released. Containing multiple balance changes, bug fixes and maybe most importantly, custom made soundtrack. Also a few maps received some changes to improve playability.

Thanks for downloading and continue to enjoy,

Eastern Front Development Team

Nice changes, downloading now. I'll host a game for testing then  :)

Also I can't wait to hear icarusfoundyous soundtrack

Edit: The soundtrack (the first one I listened to) is awesome. Kind of romantic, too :P

Last edited March 26, 2011 at 10:25 PM by MaxiKing6

Downloading. Russ snipers are now easier to kill, thank you Dev team.

Snipers are too weak. At least against fire. Stupid cheap pios, or the fire on the ground after nebel's barrage aren't supposed to kill such an expensive unit as sharpshooters are,- I wasn't even able to retreat right after the f..ing one (the barrage) without loosing the whole team at once!

Last edited March 27, 2011 at 1:24 AM by IJoe

In my opinion Snipers were too OP to begin with. The nerf was well deserved. All a Soviet Player had to do is make about 4-5 sniper teams and it's game over for enemy infantry. They can drop entire SQUADS without being even targeted because their spotter draws some of the fire away. Thank god sniper spams arn't as effective anymore.

(I know I haven't posted in a long time, but I have time to check every now and then)

Cranialwizard wrote:
In my opinion Snipers were too OP to begin with. The nerf was well deserved. All a Soviet Player had to do is make about 4-5 sniper teams and it's game over for enemy infantry. They can drop entire SQUADS without being even targeted because their spotter draws some of the fire away. Thank god sniper spams arn't as effective anymore.

(I know I haven't posted in a long time, but I have time to check every now and then)

I haven't got any problems with their nerf, 'cause I think they were OP, al right, but they definitely didn't deserve to be killed by the most spammable and cheap unit, that pios are, nor by burning ground in a matter of seconds. That is the bottom of my complaint.
Besides, saying things like

Quote All a Soviet Player had to do is make about 4-5 sniper teams and it's game over for enemy infantry.

is just like saying "built 3-4 panthers, and it's game over for the enemy tanks.

Last edited March 27, 2011 at 1:50 AM by IJoe

If anything the sniper's survivability was very slightly buffed.  The health is still around the same as it was, and the armor got changed to 'sniper', which is even stronger than the 'infantry' armor they had.  I'm not gonna say anything further but to say that looking at 1.40, there's no future plans to change this either.

As for them getting killed by flamer pios, all the snipers, like the Wehr and USA ones, can get instantly killed by the flamer critical like that.  To kill the Soviet sniper team you actually need two criticals instead of one.  Same with things like stray tank shots, etc, so there's really no excuse for not retreating after one critical, and no reason why Soviet sniper teams should be wiped out by those.

Last edited March 27, 2011 at 2:25 AM by Chancellor

If anything, I wouldn't notice that buff: sniper get killed by rifle fire - easier, by pumas - right away, and even by the god damned burning ground after nebelwerver's barrage! What a buff!

I tested the beta in a sandbox very shortly before release, and I also encountered the nebel thing today.

I put the sniper team through tests like bike fire and small arms fire, and it hasn't changed.  Seriously if you're letting your sniper team die from the nebel burning ground thing, then you really shouldn't be talking about balance.  ::)

Thanks devs.  ;D

Chancellor wrote:
I tested the beta in a sandbox very shortly before release, and I also encountered the nebel thing today.

I put the sniper team through tests like bike fire and small arms fire, and it hasn't changed.  Seriously if you're letting your sniper team die from the nebel burning ground thing, then you really shouldn't be talking about balance.  ::)

Another pro-my-ass!
...I'm kind o' like about taking decisions on what to talk about myself, so keep your opinion with your mouth shut (out of simple respect for others, at least, - everybody interested is quite aware of your "personal" thing with soviet snipers, which I, in turn, don't have, so my opinion on the issue is a whole bit less biased).

Last edited March 27, 2011 at 2:51 AM by IJoe

Considering I played him in those sandbox games yesterday and had great difficulty killing those snipers, I also agree that it is not enough of a nerf. I actually used pumas against them and it was very difficult to kill them when it would've been a guaranteed kill against other faction snipers. Complaining that they're dying against flame pios, when that is the unit they counter, just comes down to poor micro. Snipers of the other factions can also be instantly killed by flames and like Yau said is less likely to happen with two men. Other snipers are also instantly killed by nebel rockets and are damaged substantially by ground fire from a MHT or nebels.

Snipers require further health nerfs. Their change to sniper armour is welcome, so that enemy snipers fire on them with priority, but they require more than just a token nerf to the observer HP.

I don't see, why you, people, think, that soviet snipers are supposed to be not stronger (as a team) than any other sniper in the game. It's like saying "OK, now, all basic infantry has to be equal to [name unit]", or "all tanks...".
I don't see, why these can't be slightly stronger against pumas (due to quantity only).
About those losses to flame - those guys weren't on full health, and it appeared quite noticeable, that they died a lot sooner, than they used to.

One anecdote can't be used as evidence in a balance discussion.

They're allowed to be slightly stronger than other snipers but for a tradeoff. Not being able to move stealthed isn't enough of a loss for what they gain - double health. Other snipers can be easily killed if you catch them with their pants down, so good sniper use stems directly from micro. These snipers rambo around the battlefield and require no finesse to use.

Their current stats are not just "slightly" better than normal snipers yet they require only 20MP more to build.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
One anecdote can't be used as evidence in a balance discussion.

They're allowed to be slightly stronger than other snipers but for a tradeoff. Not being able to move stealthed isn't enough of a loss for what they gain - double health. Other snipers can be easily killed if you catch them with their pants down, so good sniper use stems directly from micro. These snipers rambo around the battlefield and require no finesse to use.

Their current stats are not just "slightly" better than normal snipers yet they require only 20MP more to build.

Personally, I wouldn't be against if they'd cost 400 mp, but a further nerfs to health and/or abilities (lessening sniper's firing rate and the other guy's critical chance) would make them just too weak, IMO.
So, they don't require that much finesse in use, and? - That's obvious! Panthers don't either, comparing to american m10, FE. Yet no one sane is complaining about it, right? It's just a faction's specifics, IMO.

Except that panthers are more expensive than any other tank in the game (except IS2), are incomparable to any other tank in the game (except IS2) in role and are easily countered by infantry and AT guns at the stage they arrive. Sharpshooters are the reverse. They are roughly the same cost as other snipers, occupy the same role as other snipers but do it better and cannot be countered by anything at the stage they arrive. If a blob approaches you can FOO it and anything else will get whittled down while you run at him and if he retreats properly, nothing will kill him on the retreat because of his high health.

Panthers at least have to face their armour forward and circle strafing AT guns or using buildings for cover uses skill. Maybe in basic matches panther spam might win a game but they are rarely used in 1v1s and are usually ineffective because they are so easy to counter. Sharpshooters are just attack-move and retreat when threatened. You won't die unless hit by a gib weapon (arty etc.) and even then you have less of a chance of dying compared to a normal sniper because of having two men. They also have unlimited usefulness since EVERY game has infantry in it whereas the panther is situational and really only useful against Russians since they have such powerful, easy to tech to, tanks compared to Americans.

Last edited March 27, 2011 at 4:31 AM by GodlikeDennis

The panther reference was just for the sake of illustration. A comparison not without a flaw, of course, but it was the first thing to come to my mind, when I tried to think of some powerful unit.

Most snipers don't really get killed by infantry, unless counter-sniped, which is almost impossible (to actively counter-snipe a wehr sniper with the soviet one) with soviet snipers' camouflage system , or stupidly thrown onto a blob.
So, the only thing that makes soviet snipers appear OP is their ability, which is purchasable and costly. The possible solution - move it to after the tank hall is built (requirement), or add an additional armory upgrade, so only snipers, purchased after it has been researched could be upgraded with the barrage ability.

Last edited March 27, 2011 at 6:07 AM by IJoe

Soviet sniper isn't like normal snipers, it usually cannot be countered by normal sniper hardcounters:

a) If you use a bike, it will scape unharmed; if you use an armored car and the sniper has more than the half of it's health, most probably will run to home alive.

b) If you try to countersnipe by right-clicking to attack it, 99.9% of the cases you will fail and your sniper will be dead.

c) The only thing that works is when you hold fire and the sniper is in range you disable hold fire command and Soviet sniper will be dead... but usually there's no time to prepare something like this.

As the sniper has the double of health, and axis factions have the half of men on each squad (talking about their main infantry), make the soviet sniper a nightmare. The proper solution will be that if you order a wehr sniper to fire at a soviet sniper, the sniper should die instead of the observer... but afaik that cannot be changed.

I countered soviet snipers by having (at least) one wehr sniper in camo and on hold. Basically, wait 'till the soviet sniper appears, then shoot at the sniper (somehow I rarely missed, since sniper and spotter have quite differing skins). Most likely, the second guy will then flee. Well, that's the price of playing against soviets.
Also I often found myself in a situation, when soviets attacked with two teams of snipers. This lead to the necessity of increasing the number of my own snipers.
The problem is, that if you want to effectively fight soviet snipers, you have to keep yours on hold, which is rather expensive. But I think of it as of faction's specifics, same as mortar truck - gives quite a kick to a mortar by adding mobility, and most likely counters any other mortar.

One nerf I would suggest is putting a price for recruiting in dependance of who you recruit: one price for the sniper (a high one), and another for the spotter. I know, it's possible, since I've seen it done in one mod.

Last edited March 27, 2011 at 8:52 AM by IJoe

Guys, would you mind moving your discussion to the balance subforum? Or at least to some other forum I don't read at all (e.g. every forum besides tech support & the internal dev boards)?

Thanks.

Awesome patch. But beside minor problems, I've found that soviet cant recrew heavy weapon... Is this intended?
They also cant retreat to medic truck (only CS can).

Penal Squads STILL are suppresable and pinnable.

Medic Truck still has "M3 gotov" (M3 is ready) line

Red_Stinger wrote:
Awesome patch. But beside minor problems, I've found that soviet cant recrew heavy weapon... Is this intended?
They also cant retreat to medic truck (only CS can).

Afaik soviet can recrew weapons, i've tested with strelky, red banner strelky, guards, shock guards, tank hunters, engineers, penal troops recrewing ZiS2, PaK38, soviet mortar... or what unit/emplacement you were unable to capture? Also all soviet troops are able to retreat to ZiS-5 after is built.

^^ maybe he tried to re-crew with conscripts. And the only soviet unit, that can't retreat to MT are penals, but this IS intended.

PTRD arent droppable? I only saw the DP-28 droppable in changelog

The music confused me a little. It is well done but it doesn´t fit to the main menu

Good patch the zis gun model is awesome but the new music remember me immigrant gypsy music i prefer the old music.

Killar wrote:
PTRD arent droppable? I only saw the DP-28 droppable in changelog

The music confused me a little. It is well done but it doesn´t fit to the main menu

The PTRD is supposed to be dropped xD... but in the next patches.

hernan wrote:
Good patch the zis gun model is awesome but the new music remember me immigrant gypsy music i prefer the old music.

About the music, @icarusfoundyou said before the patch was released that he will create more music for the main menu, and will improve what was included. So, let's wait him and pray that will be ready for 1.40 xD. But i have to say, me likes it ;D.

I've played a skirmish today for try the new patch.

Just a question:

The Zis AT gun (cool model  8)) has some kind of self-repair and self-heal ability active with time?

I've noticed that my damaged Zis gun, after some minutes was totally repaired and its men healed.

The gun was at Vet.0.

It's a bug or an intentional thing?

Anyway, I like the new SU-85/SU-100 skins. ;)

Thanks and good job.  :)

blackbishop wrote:

Red_Stinger wrote:
Awesome patch. But beside minor problems, I've found that soviet cant recrew heavy weapon... Is this intended?
They also cant retreat to medic truck (only CS can).

Afaik soviet can recrew weapons, i've tested with strelky, red banner strelky, guards, shock guards, tank hunters, engineers, penal troops recrewing ZiS2, PaK38, soviet mortar... or what unit/emplacement you were unable to capture? Also all soviet troops are able to retreat to ZiS-5 after is built.

I tried myself with red banner strelky, assault guards and engineers; they all were unable to recrew my ZIS-2 and a nebelwerfer that rushed into my line ( ;D).
They also were unable to retreat to ZIS-5 (no ability), only the CS can from what I've seen.

Or my version is badly bugged, or I may have smoked something too heavy; I will retry later. 

@Moonwalker
It isn't writen on the 1.31 changelog so i think it could be a bug.

No problems with re-crewing any heavy weapon by strelky, Red Banner strelky, ingenery, penals. Didn't try to do it with guards (kind o' too rich for my blood).
Surprisingly, however, the game seems to be using (even) more resources after the last patch.

It seems like you guys play a lot of Soviet vs Whermact.

The Russian snipers get slaughtered by a rush of PE Assault Grenadiers or  Scout cars. Especially since the Scout cars are vetted from nuking conscripts with every shot.

The fact is, Russia needs the decent snipers or there is nothing they can do against a PE blob early.

I really like to see some more testing / discussion on Russia vs PE, it's an entirely different game.

Keep up the good work though!

p.s. has anyone experienced the "bug" when you have them in observer mode and try retreat? For me they just sit there in retreat mode but don't actually run away.

ForceMultiplier wrote:
[...]
p.s. has anyone experienced the "bug" when you have them in observer mode and try retreat? For me they just sit there in retreat mode but don't actually run away.

I've just tested that and the observer can move while the sniper just stands in observer mode.

blackbishop wrote:

ForceMultiplier wrote:
[...]
p.s. has anyone experienced the "bug" when you have them in observer mode and try retreat? For me they just sit there in retreat mode but don't actually run away.

I've just tested that and the observer can move while the sniper just stands in observer mode.

I don't know, if it's a bug, or was intended so, but it's definitely there, and was there for ages.

IJoe wrote:

blackbishop wrote:

ForceMultiplier wrote:
[...]
p.s. has anyone experienced the "bug" when you have them in observer mode and try retreat? For me they just sit there in retreat mode but don't actually run away.

I've just tested that and the observer can move while the sniper just stands in observer mode.

I don't know, if it's a bug, or was intended so, but it's definitely there, and was there for ages.

I've never noticed before xD.

I never noticed it either, but then again, I rarely have to retreat sniper groups because they are just too damn OP. (Or, if you take it from a soviet standpoint, badass)

Moonwalker wrote:
I've played a skirmish today for try the new patch.

Just a question:

The Zis AT gun (cool model  8)) has some kind of self-repair and self-heal ability active with time?

I've noticed that my damaged Zis gun, after some minutes was totally repaired and its men healed.

The gun was at Vet.0.

It's a bug or an intentional thing?

Anyway, I like the new SU-85/SU-100 skins. ;)

Thanks and good job.  :)

This happened to me as well accidentally sent a Veteran ZIS through some Wehr and coulda sworn I lost it but then it appeared where I had originally sent it with all members at full health and a minorly damaged gun.

Wow, just wow... ;D I have two question. When the new patch (to vCoH) will come out how it will affect the balance? I played the retail beta, and it is like a new game. Secondly, when will the Dev Team start to code their own game?  :D

@Blacky

It appear that the new patch got messed with Robotnik's AI improvement mod. I downloaded EF again to avoid confusion with files etc. Thanks for the help thought.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the incredible ZIS-2 model in my earlier post. A great work on that model! Thank you!  :)

Don't use robotnik AI, it's outdated :). Next time he makes a new version of his AI will be integrated with the official release.

I see my id for the Royal Engineers Support trenches got in. That is awesome! Best news all month  :P Keep up the good work guys!

G2money wrote:
I see my id for the Royal Engineers Support trenches got in. That is awesome! Best news all month  :P Keep up the good work guys!

Eh? Trenches have been here a while?  ???

Cranialwizard wrote:

G2money wrote:
I see my id for the Royal Engineers Support trenches got in. That is awesome! Best news all month  :P Keep up the good work guys!

Eh? Trenches have been here a while?  ???

Trenches for RMC weren't iirc.

Hi there,

first: do you have changed the skin of the russian sniperace? It does not look good anymore.
Second: do you have changed the AI behaviour? I win every skirmish game now doesn´t matter which nation I use. I play the third level and remembering playing Wehrmacht it was very hard to beat the russians. Now it is no problem anymore.

Best regards,

Caen44.

Last edited March 30, 2011 at 5:51 PM by Caen44

@Caen44
I haven't checked the sniper ace of this patch, but afaik, he uses the same skin than the spotter.

About the AI, as we didn't have AI coder, EF has been using the same AI than in 1.0 and we have done many changes so, our current AI code is not optimized to work correctly. Fortunately, robotnik offered to help us on that matter so, we can expect an update on EF's AI in the near future.

Meanwhile, you can play against humans; you will find more epic matches than the AI could offer.

Sniper ace looks different to the spotter, and no, it hasn't been changed in this patch. I see no problem.

Hi guys,

I don´t mean the sniper with the spotter. I mean the sniper who comes with the doctrine and operates alone. Sorry for the missunderstanding.

@blackbishop: I am a real noob and not good enough to play against humans.  ;D

Best regards,

Caen44.

Caen44 wrote:
Hi guys,

I don´t mean the sniper with the spotter. I mean the sniper who comes with the doctrine and operates alone. Sorry for the missunderstanding.

@blackbishop: I am a real noob and not good enough to play against humans.  ;D

Best regards,

Caen44.

Both of us meant the Sniper Ace. But i thought that the ace used similar skin that the spotter which i was wrong. BurroDiablo said the Ace wasn't changed.

I have a problem after applying this patch, I cannot join LAN servers anymore, it just says "Connection timed out"...  ???

Anyone else have this problem ?

Post in the tech support forum with more details like are the games greyed out or white in the lobby, are you using a pirate copy (in which case you won't get help, nor should you) what circumstances the LAN games are played under (network settings etc.).