Mortar barrage Ability

I know it's attack ground, but isn't it confusing how we can't see the range? We have to keep checking but won't have those nifty circumference dots of range.

OR maybe put that in vet. I'm not sure if it's at vet 3(vet heavy mortar) because I haven't had one of those yet.

It would be OP to have a Veteran Heavy Mortar (upgraded from the Armoury) with a Barrage ability. Not only does it make the mortar fire faster and more accurately, but two VHMs would be like a nonstop howitzer barrage. Adding the ability simply for the sake of checking the rage is silly; just use the direct fire button to make a quick guestimation. Answer to your question?

The Office- Michael Scott No God No

Maple's comment is valid even if his proposed solution is unacceptable. The inability to range an indirect fire support weapon, especially the only heavy mortar in the TO&E severely limits it's utility a a support weapon. Having to site the mortar, range it in and monitor its ranging and firing is entirely too much micromanagement for a support weapon.

At present, the lack of ranging capability, makes the 120mm mortar team OP'd by every other mortar squad in the game when it comes to counterbattery fire.

The MP maintenance cost is a real problem on low munitions points maps. This is a v.601 condition not an EF condition. Just one 120mm squad contributes markedly in limiting a Russian player's OB, (number of units which can be fielded), vs tech development  choices.

To summarize: The 120mm mortar squad micro management, coupled with the development costs,(T2, upgrade, T5, upgrade, buy unit and obtaining veterancy) without a ranging ability is NFG. In a game that takes 45 minutes to play I will opt for the simplicity (and graphic display of the Stalin Organ every time. It is a shame to relegate a unique weapon system to the dustbin of non-use for an ability that is available to all other mortar squads.

Nerf the unit if you must but give us an ability to range it.  :'(

Barrage doesn't have to increase RoF or accuracy. I believe the US mortar is actually less accurate while barraging (at least until the retail patch is out). I see no problem with giving the 120mm a barrage ability that doesn't improve its stats, just gives you a range indicator and a temp force target. The problem with current attack ground is that it is indefinite.

Yes, also the reason what GodlikeDennis said. I want to allow my Heavy Mortar to barrage the number of shots the US mortar does with its ability, then move to get away from nasty counter-battery. With attack ground I have to guesstimate and I have enough distractions to micro my men out of machine-gun fire

Maple,

The beauty of a heavy mortar squad is in its greater range than other CS indirect fire weapons. site the weapon out of direct LOS.and remember to keep a blocking unit to slow down the mg rush. We are talking about a support weapon right? All this persiflage aside the Barrage ranging ability is really needed.

On a slightly different note; Does anyone think there is something buggy about the way the 120mm mortar squad responds to movement orders?

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Barrage doesn't have to increase RoF or accuracy. I believe the US mortar is actually less accurate while barraging (at least until the retail patch is out). I see no problem with giving the 120mm a barrage ability that doesn't improve its stats, just gives you a range indicator and a temp force target. The problem with current attack ground is that it is indefinite.

+1

I know that the mortar 1.0 was stupidly OP (maybe the most OP unit in all of EF history with says a lot.) So somekind of nerf was needed.  But this chance is just strange and did little to nerf them. Since they have been nerfed in other and better ways, I think that the time is ready to revert this change.

Nah pak bug made paks most OP unit ever. Insta kill on HQs is a little better than mortar/arty.

Brothers I know that not having rangefinder circle is annoying, but Please this is something u can deal with in a bit of intelligence. just use hotkey to attack and then hotkey to attack ground, NOT THAT BACKBREAKING

I dont think a nerf is in order, we love our 120mm the way it is!

If making a range of fire circle available means bringing in any sort of nerf upon a mortar, than I strongly oppose such a change.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Barrage doesn't have to increase RoF or accuracy. I believe the US mortar is actually less accurate while barraging (at least until the retail patch is out). I see no problem with giving the 120mm a barrage ability that doesn't improve its stats, just gives you a range indicator and a temp force target. The problem with current attack ground is that it is indefinite.

That could be an option, nerfing the accuracy only if you use barrage ability.

You  can see range of mortar when you try tu use smoke barrage ability.
I dont know if that was intetional.

Kashchei wrote:
You  can see range of mortar when you try tu use smoke barrage ability.
I dont know if that was intetional.

:O!! Does soviet mortar use smoke rounds? No button but hotkey works??? or what do you mean?

Or very outdated version, possibly even confused with US mortar

Nope, it's not outdated, and it's there. I guess, people just never bothered to use smoke rounds (that includes me)  ;D ;D ;D

IJoe wrote:
Nope, it's not outdated, and it's there. I guess, people just never bothered to use smoke rounds (that includes me)  ;D ;D ;D

So, using hotkey for smoke rounds work with soviet mortar?

I never quite got understanding of how smoke rounds/grenades worked

do you want to throw smoke in front of your troops? or in front of the guns/mgs that are potentially shooting at you

My guess is (too lazy to actually check) that it must drastically decrease incoming accuracy for troops, that are in the smoked area.

Oh so you have to be in the smoke, instead I was thinking using it like screen

REDcomissar wrote:
Oh so you have to be in the smoke, instead I was thinking using it like screen

I remember the first days of COH, I was using mortars to smoke MG or MG nest and then I sent flamers to clear everything up.
Dunno if it still work though.

sorry for confusing you Bishop :P i was talking about that yellow (range) circle. When i play online i use  this to know range of the mortar.

Kashchei wrote:
sorry for confusing you Bishop :P i was talking about that yellow (range) circle. When i play online i use  this to know range of the mortar.

BTW, the effective force-aiming range is slightly greater than the circle shows.

Thanks that will help ;D. i dont use mortar often.

I find Smoke Rounds to be really in-efficient. Instead of decreasing their accuracy (And yours too) why not just friggin kill them?

Say, you're sending in 3-4 infantry squads right on the enemy's position, that is on the ridge of your mortars' range. And he is aware of that fact. It would take him sending one volk squad to engage your troops to get 'em all massacred by your own mortars (esp. the vetted ones). If you just use the smoke rounds at the time your forces are about to approach the enemy's position, you'll at least save them from horrific shelling.
Though, on the second thought, that sounds rather stupid, since you can just order "hold fire"...
Maybe use it to cover your retreating troops (AT guns, low health tanks, etc.)

Last edited April 5, 2011 at 9:40 PM by IJoe

Use it as intimidation tactics.

"Holy shit wtf is that smoke? He's using smoke, man he must know wth he's doing! I'm gonna pull out all my forces..."

:)

smoke decreases the accuracy and suppression of anything passing through it, this does not include indirect weapons however, which includes flamethrowers


and a barrage ability for the mortar would be a good idea just to help time your shots and find the maximum range, and it wouldnt increase the rate of fire or anything

Smoke affects all shots that pass through it. So you can use it on your troops, on theirs or somewhere between as well. It doesn't affect flamers or shreks which makes it very useful for attacking brits with their emplacements and infantry blobs. It's also very useful for ninja capping a heavily covered point. Smoke decreases accuracy to 25% of normal and massively decreases suppression as well but does not decrease damage.

The upgraded 120mm mortar currently is able to fire smoke rounds either with button or hotkey.

robotnik wrote:
smoke decreases the accuracy and suppression of anything passing through it, this does not include indirect weapons however, which includes flamethrowers


and a barrage ability for the mortar would be a good idea just to help time your shots and find the maximum range, and it wouldnt increase the rate of fire or anything

10/4 on the barrage ability.

1. When you are saying "indirect weapons", do you mean indirect fire =IdF weapons? If so what other non-artillery, weapon systems are in the the IdF class?
or
2. 1. When you are saying "indirect weapons", do you mean "non fired, ie guns" weapons like grenades,booby traps, FTs?

REDcommissar wrote:
I never quite got understanding of how smoke rounds/grenades worked

do you want to throw smoke in front of your troops? or in front of the guns/mgs that are potentially shooting at you

Think of smoke as cover, probably Green + . Your troops must be inside the cover to take advantage of it. I've tried using smoke to screen movements of other units as the Amis, I was not satisfied with the results. That may be due to LOS/LOF rules though. Its not easy to tell If other enemy spotters have you in a LOS that does notpass through your screening smoke. Apparently The Sharpshooter ability: smoke breaks suppression on itself only but also provides cover for other friendly units in the smoke. I do not deploy my sharpshooters as snipers per se. and not generally with other friendly troops. Of course I use them as snipers. I prefer to them as artillery spotters for IDF weapons. IE to create LOS and reduce the fog of war.

Kashchei wrote:
Thanks that will help ;D . i dont use mortar often.

Try using your mortars on AFV's. There is an inreased chance of engine Critical Hits when you shell the top of the AFV. It works very well on Lt AFVs (like Pumas), in the game. It might even work on the bigger critters I don't know. BTW once you get an engine critical hit, switch to another target. I have seen multiple critical hits on a target where there are no repair capabilities available; but I've never seen a destroyed engine Critical from mortars at least.

Last edited April 13, 2011 at 4:15 AM by tpcoughlin

Indirect fire weapons are those that target the ground rather than a unit. So flamers, arty, grenades etc. are all indirect fire. Shreks also work well in smoke against emplacements. They ARE affected by the smoke but only scatter a little so they still likely hit the target without getting hit themselves.

No you do not have to be IN the smoke to benefit. See my explanation above.

Yes, mortars have an extremely high chance of getting engine criticals on ACs. They don't have quite as high chance on heavier vehicles and tanks.

Gotcha. Granted flamers and incendiaries target the ground why then does the damage to elite armor increase when attacked by fire? It works well enough against explosive and penetration attacks. There is some attribute I.m not accounting for here.

They do more damage to elite armour because that's what it's programmed to do against those target types.

Take small arms for instance. They are direct fired and either hit or miss the target they are firing at. They cannot scatter and hit another target. This also means they cannot friendly fire. Then take tank shells and infantry AT weapons etc. They are direct fire and either hit or miss the target they are fired at. If they miss, they scatter and hit a random ground location based on the scatter attributes. Any entity within the AoE of the weapon will then be individually "targeted" and their armour taken into account to determine damage. Flamers, arty and grenades do not target individual men when fired. They fire immediately at the ground where an enemy happens to be, taking into account scatter. Any target within the AoE is then "targeted" and the armour taken into account to process damage.

Because smoke does not affect scatter and only affects the accuracy of the weapon, which decides a hit or miss roll, indirect fire weapons are not affected by smoke. At least, this is what I believe happens. Perhaps small arms do scatter, but since they don't have an AoE, they can only generate a hit or miss based on passing through a target hitbox which smoke still protects them from. Also, you still can't generate a "hit" against friendly units.

Last edited April 13, 2011 at 6:33 AM by GodlikeDennis

So no comment from Devs?

Will a barrage ability with deacreased accuracy be implemented in the next patch?

Yes it will.