Soviet tanks...it is absurd

After long time i manage to make my cohEF working!Now it works,no crashes,laggs etc...GREAT MOD!! u guys can be proud!!
I am coh addictive and with this now working i dont think i will be able to return into RL soon  ;D
But one thing pissed me off...but rly i was mad.

A three t-34 knocked out my Tiger I !!how??why??
A SU100 Knocked out PzKpfwIV like a toy????
A single t-34 ATE MY STUG???
An KV-2 can take more hits than Tiger II???
My MarderIII has only 3-4kills per battle????
WHAT??? ??? :o
The problem is that soviet tanks in this mod are way too strong.Soviet tanks should be cheap,fast to deploy and in great numbers.The thing is that germans had tehnology,thick armor,and good guns,and what soviets had?A flood of t-34 rushing on couple of panzers!
If u know something about tanks in WWII u should notice that balance of soviet tanks are completly incorrect (except IS2,ISU152 they where real tank killers  ;) )

Some soviet tanks should be much weaker becaouse:
Soviet tank crews had very poor training before going into battle.
Tanks weren't tested ,they were deployed from factory directly to battlefield.
They had also weak armor (a Tiger I could knock out a T-34 on 1500meters)
Most of their medium and light tanks could not penetrate a panther or a tiger from very close distances,flanking them on 200 meters was only possile way to destroy them.
Etc...

Soviets tanks should:
Be cheaper
Easier to deploy
Cost less population cap
Great in numbers
be much more faster (speed was only their advantage)
have much faster gun reload

What u peoples think about this?

Supposing both tanks were unsupported.

Stug vs T-34/76
->    Stug is a turretless tank, T-34/76 has the upperhand.

SU-100 vs Pz. IV
->    SU-100 is a tank hunter, good gun with not so good armor, let alone that is turretless, if he shots you from afar, your piv is doomed, if you reach the SU-100, it will be dead.

3 T-34s vs Tiger
-> Tiger has the advantage if you were facing T-34/76, if they were T-34/85, they are way better against armor.

KV-2 vs KT (armor)
-> I don't remember the stats of that unit.

If you saved the replay you can post it here. It would help to detect some kind of imbalance.

A little history and militairy equipment lesson:

Unlike a lot of movies and such make you think, the Red Army was capable of more than just spamming people and thanks to get killed.
As you might know (or not of course) the Panther's sloped armour was not a German idea. It was something which they saw in Russia, with the T34. In short, the PzIV got wasted when the T34 started rolling out. The PzV (the Panther) was made in response to it.

As for how three T34's are able to knock out a single Tiger, well, first, the T34's effective armour is about equal to that of the Tiger, if not greater (Tiger has no sloped armour, T34 has sloped). Now for the next part. The Tiger may have a stronger gun than the T34 (not sure about this, I hope Lord Rommel can shed some light). But 3 T34's have more then enough firepower to disable a tiger, as long as they aim for the right spots (threads, joint of turret and hull, etc.)

As for the KV2 It was build as a heavy tank, do you find it odd that it is able to take a bunch of shots? Also, what was shooting at it?

IMO historical accuracy destroys gameplay, and I prefer gameplay over realism.

Ok, somebody is talking from their anus... what patch are you using?

King wrote:A three t-34 knocked out my Tiger I !!how??why??

So, what's the problem? You come across 3 all round decent tanks and get squished, that what happens in EF as it would've in vCoH if you got pinned by 3 upgunned shermans. This isn't a realism mod.

King wrote:A SU100 Knocked out PzKpfwIV like a toy?

Wait... didn't you just complain about lack of realism? Now you seem to be complaining the mod is TOO real?! Seriousnya.

King wrote:A single t-34 ATE MY STUG???

He ATE it? Surely not.

Yes, T-34's will beat StuGs and they will suffer serious damage doing so. Why? Because StuGs are Tier 3 armour and the Soviets have very little in the way of properly mobile AT to deal with them other than slow, flankable AT guns and weak, unspammable PTRD riflemen.

King wrote:
An KV-2 can take more hits than Tiger II???

Heres some numbers

KT Hitpoints - 2000
KV2 HitPoints - 750

So what are you trying to take out the KV2 with? A Bike?

King wrote:My MarderIII has only 3-4kills per battle?

I see no real problem here either. Seriously, either complain about something real or don't complain at all.

If russians had that good tanks they would win the war sooner.and have more than just one tank ace (Lavrinenko Dmitriy Fyodorovich had 52 kills) whats that comparing to an german aces?

I can hold agains expert russian armour but AI ally can't ,a bunch of KV-2,T-34 destroys all its StuGIV,StuH42 some PzIV and my ally is dead wich makes my game much harder and eventually ends in defeat.
At least T-34 should be changed...T-34 was a conscript in world of tanks a cannonfooder (except T-34/85 ,T44 etc..)while tanks like ISU or IS2 would attack from the safe distances.

I fought expert british and american armour for years now and i never saw my panzers being destroyed so quickly.

I never said that Russian tanks were uber zomg tank destroyers. What I did say is that they aren't the tin cans you might think they are. Like I said in my first post in this thread, once T34's came on the field, the PzIV got wasted, and in response to that, the Panther was made.
Also, if you are so keen on realism, then you won't mind if the sherman get's a good overhaul. As you might know, the only way that shermans could beat tigers and panthers, was by attacking with six of them.

As for "if they had that good tanks they would win the war sooner", I think you are forgetting that there was more to fighting a war then just having the best tanks. After all, Germany argueably had the best tanks in the world at that time but they did lose.
Winning a war is not only about the material you have, it is also about how you use it. You can have the best tanks in the world, but if you charge head long into an enemy fortification, you will suffer for it (not to mention the German air Superiority at the start of the war in Russia).

Anyway, I'm getting off topic.

marder getting only 3-4 kills: it is a tank destroyer, it is meant to kill tanks. To do so, it has a big gun, but to enable it to be fairly mobile, it has light armour. Long story short, it will get eaten by anti tank/anti armour weapons.

Three T-34 tanks knocking out a Tiger: like I said in my first post, with good tactics (aka, circle straffing, or for the more crude approach, simply steamrollering it) it is more than possible to do that (both in the game and in Real life).

SU100 knocking out a PzIV: the SU100 is a heavy tank destroyer, the PzIV is a medium tank. The gun on the SU100 was made to kill Panthers and Tigers, it will make minced meat of your PzIV.

A KV2 taking more hits than a Köningstiger: like Burro said, either you were shooting at it with a motorcycle, or you had an encounter with the 5% bug (a tank bouncing of a bunch of rounds and taking some critical hits after each other when health is reduced to 5%). So how often have you seen this?

A T-34 eating your stug. If I'm not mistaken, then the stug was designed as an infantry support gun/tank. Also, the Stug in the game is the StugIV which is based on the PzIV. Like I said before, the T34 ate the PzIV for breakfast when it rolled on the field.

In conclusion, most of your claims about stuff not being right in regards to "real life" are either not really accurate (as in, your idea of what certain tanks should do to each other are incorrect), or you hit the 5% bug (in case of the KV2 vs. Köningstiger).
To add to that, historical accuracy is not the main goal in this game. If you want historical accuracy, then the Tiger should be able to hit everything, from everywhere, even on the largest maps and it should be able to one shot Shermans.
If you truelly want a hardcore history simulating mod for CoH, try the Blitzkrieg mod or Normandy '44 mod.

King wrote:
If russians had that good tanks they would win the war sooner.and have more than just one tank ace (Lavrinenko Dmitriy Fyodorovich had 52 kills) whats that comparing to an german aces?

This isn't real life, I thought that would be abundantly clear...

King wrote:I can hold agains expert russian armour but AI ally can't ,a bunch of KV-2,T-34 destroys all its StuGIV,StuH42 some PzIV and my ally is dead wich makes my game much harder and eventually ends in defeat.

With all due respect, we do not take balance advice from compstompers.

King wrote:At least T-34 should be changed...T-34 was a conscript in world of tanks a cannonfooder (except T-34/85 ,T44 etc..)while tanks like ISU or IS2 would attack from the safe distances.

This isn't World of Tanks either! There can be no such thing as a 'cannon fodder' Tank in CoH because, besides being totally unrealistic, it would turn the balance on it's head.

Would you rather it was like our first T-34 video? :P

T 34



Because... no, just... no. T-34 was a very good tank, it has quite accurately been dubbed the greatest tank ever conceived. To demote it down to mere 'cannon fodder' is nonsensical. Sure, the crews were poorly trained, but we've added that ingame, you'll find the T-34's accuracy to be woeful.

King wrote:
I fought expert british and american armour for years now and i never saw my panzers being destroyed so quickly.

I therefore point you back to my second reply in this post.

Man, soviets had more  than one ace ,english wikipedia is not the best source for this. Vet your tanks, vet3 PIV will win on 1v1 with t34/76 ,not to mention vet3 panther or tiger but they need support you cant send them alone like that. This is COH not DOW1

Last edited February 6, 2011 at 3:37 PM by Kashchei

Omg, another german fanboy  ::)  ???

King wrote:
Soviets tanks should:
Be cheaper
Easier to deploy
Cost less population cap
Great in numbers

They are. ::)

Quote
have much faster gun reload

Do you think that T-34 with 85mm gun reloded quicker than a 75mm Panther or a PzIV? ::)

Red_Stinger wrote:
Omg, another german fanboy  ::)  ???

+1

well i guess it is ower with roaming alone thru enemy territory  with tigers and killing everything in my path...
No more tanks with 50 or more heavytank kills
When playing against russians.

but here is result from a battle of kursk (the greatest tank battle ever)
Germans claimed 720 tanks and assault guns lost
Russian claimed 6,064 tanks and assault guns lost
(This is from wiki so i don't think that data is 100% correct)I was unable to find another data about the loses at the kursk.

StuG platoon knocked out russians

The most notable Waffen SS Stug ace was SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Walter Kniep, who commanded the 2nd Sturmgeschuetz Abteilung of 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich". From July 5th of 1943 to January 17th of 1944, his unit claimed destruction of some 129 Soviet tanks, while losing two Stugs. Kniep was then awarded the Knight’s Cross.

A 2 StuGIII for 129 soviet tanks

I found many other examples like this so...
U still tink that russians had good tanks ?

King wrote:
well i guess it is ower with roaming alone thru enemy territory  with tigers and killing everything in my path...
No more tanks with 50 or more heavytank kills
When playing against russians.

but here is result from a battle of kursk (the greatest tank battle ever)
Germans claimed 720 tanks and assault guns lost
Russian claimed 6,064 tanks and assault guns lost
(This is from wiki so i don't think that data is 100% correct)I was unable to find another data about the loses at the kursk.

StuG platoon knocked out russians

The most notable Waffen SS Stug ace was SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Walter Kniep, who commanded the 2nd Sturmgeschuetz Abteilung of 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich". From July 5th of 1943 to January 17th of 1944, his unit claimed destruction of some 129 Soviet tanks, while losing two Stugs. Kniep was then awarded the Knight’s Cross.

A 2 StuGIII for 129 soviet tanks

I found many other examples like this so...
U still tink that russians had good tanks ?

If you really want to discuss about historical facts of WW2, then try to post in the history section, as I'm sure plenty of guys (including me) will enjoy to discuss with you.

In the vanilla CoH, realism isnt an important matter, and EF follow this way, as far as I have understood.

==>  REALISM < BALANCE

Red_Stinger wrote:
Omg, another german fanboy  ::)  ???

Omg, another whatever your prefered faction fanboy. So you can prefer say the Americans but its wrong to prefer the Germans? you people are too funny.

Griptonix wrote:

Red_Stinger wrote:
Omg, another german fanboy  ::)  ???

Omg, another whatever your prefered faction fanboy. So you can prefer say the Americans but its wrong to prefer the Germans? you people are too funny.

Its not wrong to prefer german nor american nor russian, its just ridiculous.

For every M-18 Hellcat lost 3 german Panzers were destroyed. ::)
That dosnt mean Hellcat should be stronger than a Tiger... or does it?

This topic is.... an absurd.... I can hear sound of locking thread... can you too?

Paciat wrote:
For every M-18 Hellcat lost 3 german Panzers were destroyed. ::)
That dosnt mean Hellcat should be stronger than a Tiger... or does it?

Lets tweak hellcat's stat  ;D

cephalos wrote:
This topic is.... an absurd.... I can hear sound of locking thread... can you too?

Indeed

Another person obsessed with realism, this is not a constructive discussion.

King wrote:
[words]

Bravo at proving nothing except the fact you're biased.