Is it just me or is the AI TOO hard?

A friend and I are really interested in this mod as we're huge fans of Red Orchestra, thus the Eastern Front in CoH is an awesome mod for us.  However we find it hard to even beat a SINGLE CPU on Easy?  We can easily work through two hards even with the ridiculous base raping the CPU does, yet in this mod even 1 easy is nearly impossible.

As much as I love this mod, I really do think that the AI was made a bit ridiculous.  I love that it's more difficult as vCoH AI can be a bit cheesy, just looks a little little bit over done on difficulty.

Yes, the AI is harder than in CoH, by one level i think. EF's easy should be like CoH normal, normal like hard, an so on... there are no plans to downgrade the AI.

Man it certainly feels like it maybe 3-4x harder.

To be honest, it doesn't seem too hard to me. At first the easy Eastern Front A.I.s i found too difficult, but i got used to it, and now i play with normal A.I.s. Maybe you could use more practice? (No offence...)

pariah wrote:
To be honest, it doesn't seem too hard to me. At first the easy Eastern Front A.I.s i found too difficult, but i got used to it, and now i play with normal A.I.s. Maybe you could use more practice? (No offence...)

Same here yea. In older version it was a A LOT harder. In these version me and my cousin have no prob handeling 2 soviet experts. In the late game especially, the soviets really seem to have a lack of oil^^
I want more tanks!


Regards,

-V-

It was a difficult change for me. They spam so many troops and never use retreat or reinforce. my territories were constantly taken by one man squads. Now vcoh is too easy.

to be honest the AI isn't hard enough for me but its always a different case for some people.

i think you did a great job improving it
many of the godamn schelde b00ns were taken of guard by your new AI and got decimated
Hell yeah, i won a lot of 2vs2 games with a normal comp vs 2 players, the comp plays real good better than a lot of players

It seems as if it plays stupidly, rather than reinforce a squad, it goes out with one person with no health and caps my points, no coordination between armour and troops or support.
what an oxymoron...artificial intelligence.

I know, right! Watching replays in particular, you can see that the A.I. is dreadfully stupid (no offence to the programmers), yet they still kick your arse (no offence to the players)! I couldn't count the times i've seen the A.I. try to use a Cromwell Command Tank or Calliope like a real tank... The thing with them, though, is that they are everywhere at once, can control all their units at once, and know where your units are.

Last edited January 11, 2011 at 6:57 PM by pariah

Griptonix wrote:
It seems as if it plays stupidly, rather than reinforce a squad, it goes out with one person with no health and caps my points, no coordination between armour and troops or support.
what an oxymoron...artificial intelligence.

You mean this?

i know that when me and tim play vs the ai while testing we always get our asses kicked lol ;D but thats just because we suck

Lol Seeme, that's my tourney game against Sandland. That man was obliterated by my Tiger.

I was kind of surprised in my first game to test units and all with an easy soviet comp + me vs normal and easy Wehrmacht comps, I took it easy and hang back, but when I send a scout I almost fell of my chair when I saw all those stugs, panthers and panzer, with grenadiers and AT guns... I didn't have a chance  ;D

Last edited January 12, 2011 at 5:21 PM by Hopit

O.K., never uploaded a picture before, so i hope this works.

Edit: O.K., it seems to have worked. The A.I. decided to leave their starting Infantry Section just sitting there for about half the game, and even eventually had 2 Lieutenants attached to them!

Last edited January 12, 2011 at 9:00 PM by pariah

the ai for the brits is incredibly stupid, one major improvement that could be done is to make it so that the hq truck does not move at all, as it would be better for the brits to just have the ai leave it where it is than have it stupidly run itself into the enemy

also another thought, maybe adopt the ai of the tactical ai mod.


http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?254367-Tactical-AI-Mod-v20101217-%28for-COH-2.601-Multi-Language%29


as an experiment, i was able to replace the ai of this mod with the improved ai quite easily, and saw a major improvement in the ai's behavior. some of the improvements i observed were:

-ai does not send out squads with one man
-ai does not constantly spam off map units
-ai does not suicide artillery units (like the Katusha, calliope, or priest
-ai uses hummel (zomg)
-ai will put things in bren carriers and cap with them
-ai will use close combat when equipped with assault rifles or sub machine guns
-ai uses mines
-ai seems to also use combined arms as well, as i always see infantry backed up by tanks
-brits will build 17 pounders much more often and will actually turn it to face the enemy


i really think this ai should be implemented

Last edited January 14, 2011 at 9:19 PM by robotnik

If that's the case a new AI must be made for soviets because those AI just are for vCoH factions.

from robotnik link wrote:9. Riflemen don't use 'Suppression fire' on vehicle

lol ;D!

Yeah, that's fantastic. Would it be possible for you guys to work with these modders? (Although i don't consider the A.I. using Mines to be an improvement, because they always did anyway. Just very stupidly...)

blackbishop wrote:
If that's the case a new AI must be made for soviets because those AI just are for vCoH factions.

from robotnik link wrote:9. Riflemen don't use 'Suppression fire' on vehicle

lol ;D!

i was able to adapt the soviets to the ai quite easily, just a few tweaks to some abilities and units and copying some of the soviet functions over.

the ai mod itself only changes a few of the ai files, and leaves everything else mostly intact, so the soviets were able to build, upgrade, and call in units effectively, while still benefiting from the global improvements.

if needed, i could hep the devs here with including the improved ai into this mod

Last edited January 14, 2011 at 10:35 PM by robotnik

YES! YES! YES! Make Company Of Heroes the very best it can be!

for those interested in what the improved ai would be like, i will upload a copy of the improved ai (modified for EF) tomorrow for people to see what it is like.

Last edited January 14, 2011 at 11:38 PM by robotnik

Yeah, I think the Dev's should look into this, and see if it could be implemented. It sounds awesome, but I have no clue as to the work it would take. Here's hoping.

@robotnik
I'll check this later with sweets. Thanks for your help.

also for those curious and who want to test out the ai, i have uploaded it here

http://www.mediafire.com/?pawdvbbzl526auf

install instructions included

@robotnik
You know what's funny?

This is a thread about the AI being OP, and you are helping the AI to perform better, besides being off-topic no one cared because a better AI is always welcomed.

blackbishop wrote:
@robotnik
You know what's funny?

This is a thread about the AI being OP, and you are helping the AI to perform better, besides being off-topic no one cared because a better AI is always welcomed.

your right, how ironic lol

Well, maybe you could make your A.I. improvements not apply to the easy A.I.s?

the easy ai is still easy, they dont retreat at all and generally act stupid.

Look, the Ai sucks more on urban maps, cause i can beat an easy or normal AI on Lyon (1v1) playing as the Soviets, so it isn't impossible. Just stick to more urban maps and you can stand a chance, mainly cause vehicles are less useful in tight quarters than in the open. Bring the enemy into the cities, then run in so close that they can't exploit their power. Rember the lesson of Stalingrad; if you can't beat em in the open, drag them to their knees in the cities.

I hope these improvement of the AI will be implemented; I can no longer take the time to play online  :-\

Well I for one, is glad someone posted an AI improvement. Me and my mate are playing 2vs3 against Very Hard AI and we're still not really having trouble beating them.

Dot.Shadow wrote:
Well I for one, is glad someone posted an AI improvement. Me and my mate are playing 2vs3 against Very Hard AI and we're still not really having trouble beating them.

Something with the AI is messed up, at least on new maps.
Its producing blobs near its HQ and doing nothing with them.

Not only in EF. It's map bug I guess. I made a few maps and this bug sometimes happens and on the other maps doesn't. I don't have idea. Maybe it's caused by HQ sector - AI often builds it's first building on the edge of sector, so if edge is cramped with stuff, AI won't perform the operation. I'm not sure though.

Paciat wrote:

Dot.Shadow wrote:
Well I for one, is glad someone posted an AI improvement. Me and my mate are playing 2vs3 against Very Hard AI and we're still not really having trouble beating them.

Something with the AI is messed up, at least on new maps.
Its producing blobs near its HQ and doing nothing with them.

I can acknowledge that. Somehow it became rather common especially after the patch 1.3, which fills me with eternal grieve, for I just love the most of it...

This mod is awesome ,great work, but it have little bug what i detected
I played on achelous river with changed position and added Soviets experts .
Then,when they build all buildings on the base they  are stopped and did not do anything(they are only used kv 2 tanks without any infantry or other tanks ,and they dint captured points, dint rebulded destroyed buildings )i think this bug must be corrected thx

I find the AI is really really tough to begin with as Soviets. then it drops the ball and does lulz katyusha spam charge at base, then loses because it doesn't build in armour whatsoever after it gets this call-in.
AI prone to simply building loads of units and not doing anything with them.
AI has no incentive to capture sectors because of it's massive boost to manpower/munitions/fuel even if you beat it back to it's base it can easily pump out top quality armour/infantry even though it should be impossible for it to do so.
Has no concept of front lines or locking down previous areas (or even laying any mines whatsovever).
seems determined to be unstoppable in early game then just flops and dies later on.

And there's more, i know it's a general problem with gaming in general that the AI is rubbish, so the easy way out is just pump it with resources or health and let it charge at you no matter what.
orders on map are clunky, there's no way to tell it to use armour or infantry to hold one part.
doesn't understand artillery at all. seems to be good at micromanagement but fails in overall strategy entirely.

Utterly fails on any bridge maps.

i know most of these issues would take a while to fix but if a game can't stand on it's own two legs on single-player then it's failed.

possible solutions: going over the new maps and making sure AI has orders to do things (this is quite important for competant AI).
lynch mob relic HQ and demand at gunpoint they fix their fucking game.
send letters from "concerned citizen" to Relic about their game threaten lawsuits for crap AI.
simply ignore single-player altogether i mean lets face it who buys a game just to compstomp? because there aren't players out there who use lame spam tactics are there? oh wait there are.

anyways i'm going to play minecraft until decent update for new stuff in eastern front comes out. because where game developers fail utterly in making a game they can always leave it to modders to fix all their failures for them. oh wait except the hardcoded ones.

The only reason i use lame spam tactics is because i learnt to play from the A.I....

pariah wrote:
The only reason i use lame spam tactics is because i learnt to play from the A.I....

;D ;D