“Dismount” ability or command

I am new here so I don’t know if somebody have already suggested something similar and much less have no idea related to how difficult this maybe.  Here it is:

How about adding  a “dismount” ability or command for heavy weapons such as machine guns, anti tank guns and mortars?  Given that the game limits the number of soldiers based on points so you can't build big armies; Why not have the ability to shift between weapons as needed?  In other words, imagine a squad able to pick up a machine gun to shot at soldiers but if a vehicle shows up, then they can dismount it and pick up the antitank gun.  This could either be made as a regular command or as an ability for experienced squads. 

Comments are welcome!

                                    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Its too big of a change and the Eastern Front teams policy is minimum change (although that is starting to be a tad redundant due to all the changes already)

Plus its just to big of a game breaker, the choice to turn a unit into a Support team, should be final. That's why its a choice, not just a leisure decision that you can undo, its tactical.

Well, since the reward brits are opcional like any reward units and the EF balance chages for CoH are nearly the same (except for one or two in EF that will be rolled back) you can't say that we already break the policy ;).

The difference being that the new brits go back to the old CoH fundamentals whereas this would move away from them.

FoolyCooly wrote:
I agrre. It is to much of a change and it would make infantry too flexible. Also there would just be lots of scattered weapons everywhere.

I din't think of any policies when I came up with the idea and maybe it's not the purpose of the mod or COH but, aren't infantry squads in fact flexible? In the real world they would use any weapond they need at any given time. They are more vulnerable to all sorts of enemy weapons and but flexibility maybe their greatest resource.

PD:


The sred army needs a transport too.

For further argument:

It can't be done anyway. A dismount button would have to create another squad and reinforcing is cheaper than making whole squads. You could abuse this and spam squads. Eg. Riflemen capture MG42. There are now 3 riflemen and 3 MG crew. Reinforce rifles, dismount MG42. Capture MG42 again, there are now 3 riflemen and 2 squads of 3 weapon crews. Riflemen cost 27MP to reinforce. You just got two squads for 162MP. Repeat endlessly.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
For further argument:

It can't be done anyway. A dismount button would have to create another squad and reinforcing is cheaper than making whole squads. You could abuse this and spam squads. Eg. Riflemen capture MG42. There are now 3 riflemen and 3 MG crew. Reinforce rifles, dismount MG42. Capture MG42 again, there are now 3 riflemen and 2 squads of 3 weapon crews. Riflemen cost 27MP to reinforce. You just got two squads for 162MP. Repeat endlessly.

Sure this is the way around to do this but takes considerable time to rebuild your squads.  German AA and Flak Guns are currently "dismountable" so the command exists in the game but not applicable to all heavy weapons.

That dismount ability is only present in the campaign, where the balance isn't affected. It takes about 10 seconds to reinforce that rifle squad. Please drop this subject, it won't work and I wouldn't want it to anyway.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
That dismount ability is only present in the campaign, where the balance isn't affected. It takes about 10 seconds to reinforce that rifle squad. Please drop this subject, it won't work and I wouldn't want it to anyway.

1) The dismount is available in skirmish mode
2) Takes longer than 10 seconds
3) I don't care who you are, who your daddy is, where are the hell are you from or how much money you contribute to EF, this is my topic and as a member it is my right to write and post whatever the hell I want.
4) Ban me if you want

Chill out! There's no need, nor a reason to put up a flame.
On the subject, I think, implementing something that radical is against the conception of the mod: add new factions, while leaving the vanilla game unchanged.   

IJoe wrote:
Chill out! There's no need, nor a reason to put up a flame.
On the subject, I think, implementing something that radical is against the conception of the mod: add new factions, while leaving the vanilla game unchanged. 

Cool, no problem I just had an idea and shared it with the community to have a discussion about it as it is the purpose of any forum but I won't allow anybody to give me orders or mistreat me in any way.  Still I don’t understand what is so freaking inflammatory about what I suggested.

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FoolyCooly wrote:
Like I said before. I agree that it is too radical of a change. And yes in real life infantry would do so and yes they are already flexible. But video games have to ride a fine line between realism and balance.

Again, there is a dismount command for German AA and Flak guns already in the original game that no one complains about being "too radical".  I agree that video games are fantasy and we all play for fun but it seems that some people around here think they are better because they have their own ideas on how a particular video game should be played.  My point is, just because somebody else has a different idea, it doesn't make it a better idea.

Last edited December 21, 2010 at 4:59 AM by Raydeen

Surely will be a wise solution to ban users ::).

I don't see anything wrong with GodlikeDennis post. That's a normal answer :-\. If you wouldn't like something to be implemented you usually say something like that. But looks like you misread his post, found the wrong answer to the equation and posted a flamming comment.

CoH factions won't have this feature for the aforementioned reasons, I don't know if there are plans to implement this on soviets, ostheer or reward brits.

Raydeen wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
That dismount ability is only present in the campaign, where the balance isn't affected. It takes about 10 seconds to reinforce that rifle squad. Please drop this subject, it won't work and I wouldn't want it to anyway.

1) The dismount is available in skirmish mode
2) Takes longer than 10 seconds
3) I don't care who you are, who your daddy is, where are the hell are you from or how much money you contribute to EF, this is my topic and as a member it is my right to write and post whatever the hell I want.
4) Ban me if you want

1) No it isn't. Regardless, skirmish is like campaign - absolutely no balance exists.
2) My apologies, it takes 18 seconds to reinforce 3 riflemen. Although it is 9 seconds if you are infantry doctrine. Big deal, the point is that you can spam ~80mp squads.
3) Way to take my post out of context. I countered your proposal with hard proof that it cannot be implemented. Therefore, there is nothing more to discuss.
4) Even if I had the power to ban you, why would I? You tried to bring up a topic within the rules of the forum. This time however, your idea would not benefit the game so I disagreed. Get thicker skin if you can't handle this over the internet medium.

noooooo... we totaly should recode CoH, diverge away from core gameplay and continue to unballence the game since thats what the devs are trying to do. Pic related.

Relic must have considered these types of options.  They have the drop weapon(small arms) ability for their tiger ace campaign.  But they haven't really done anything for the last 2 years with entire game, so this may have been just a random idea they threw in.

That suggestion may be used within Blitzkrieg-Mod, I think they also tried to create vehicle-crew bail-out.
But it just doesn't fit into EF, reasons are already mentioned.

Maybe Relic implemented it into campaign, then saw it would f*ck up the MP-gameplay and thus didn't added it. Additionally, it would change CoH even more than the introduction of British-faction did.

GodlikeDennis wrote:

Raydeen wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
That dismount ability is only present in the campaign, where the balance isn't affected. It takes about 10 seconds to reinforce that rifle squad. Please drop this subject, it won't work and I wouldn't want it to anyway.

1) The dismount is available in skirmish mode
2) Takes longer than 10 seconds
3) I don't care who you are, who your daddy is, where are the hell are you from or how much money you contribute to EF, this is my topic and as a member it is my right to write and post whatever the hell I want.
4) Ban me if you want

1) No it isn't. Regardless, skirmish is like campaign - absolutely no balance exists.
2) My apologies, it takes 18 seconds to reinforce 3 riflemen. Although it is 9 seconds if you are infantry doctrine. Big deal, the point is that you can spam ~80mp squads.
3) Way to take my post out of context. I countered your proposal with hard proof that it cannot be implemented. Therefore, there is nothing more to discuss.
4) Even if I had the power to ban you, why would I? You tried to bring up a topic within the rules of the forum. This time however, your idea would not benefit the game so I disagreed. Get thicker skin if you can't handle this over the internet medium.

1) I have done it while playing skirmish, try it.

2) All the tricks still take longer than it would take to dismount one weapon, pick up and mount another heavy weapon to defend a given position.  When attacking or defending in force dead units leaves all their heavy weapons in the field, Why not be able to drop the one you don’t need in a particular situation and pick another like any soldier could do in real life?  Any problems with innovation?

3) I can accept may have I overreacted, however you didn’t provide any "hard proof" you wrote "Please drop the subject, it won't work and I wouldn't want it to anyway” in other words you just stated your particular preferences trough an “I don’t like it so I don’t want it” authoritarian argument, which I have no problem accepting it pissed me off, Is that your hard proof?

4) I wasn’t the one who asked for the subject to be dropped because I didn’t like it or disagreed, Who has the thinner skin then?

1) Replay or it didn't happen.

2) There are problems with innovation when they destroy gameplay. It doesn't even matter if it takes 30 seconds, it's still ridiculous to be able to create ~80MP squads. This game is based around keeping whole squads alive, allowing you to cap and harrass from multiple points.

3) Hard proof is the above. Due to the way squads work in CoH, you cannot implement something like this without creating imbalance. I wouldn't want it to work because this game is also about hard decisions. You can't just undo your shrek upgrade and get back your munitions because you don't want it anymore. You have to think ahead.

4) Clearly you were, since you're letting some emotional overreaction blind you to the hard facts. The idea is not possible - End Argument.

I don't think this will be implemented. But if you want to fight I suggest to use the PM function. I don't think this will be implemented, the reasons are stated in previous posts.

I have a bit different suggestion, how about when 2 of your guys die on a AT gun or something, the one lone guy doesn't die with it. Instead, he turns into 1 rifleman/Grenadier/Volk/Whatever fits better. Its just weird how the guy just magically dies.

Seeme wrote:
Its just weird how the guy just magically dies.

He surrenderes becouse theres nothing else he can do alone.

Seeme wrote:
I have a bit different suggestion, how about when 2 of your guys die on a AT gun or something, the one lone guy doesn't die with it. Instead, he turns into 1 rifleman/Grenadier/Volk/Whatever fits better. Its just weird how the guy just magically dies.

What about dismounting vehicle crews before they are about to explode and make them riflemen too?

I'd really prefer a vet 3 sniper pair (aka sharpshooters team) ;D

IJoe wrote:
I'd really prefer a vet 3 sniper pair (aka sharpshooters team) ;D

From Barracks or from dismount?

Raydeen wrote:

IJoe wrote:
I'd really prefer a vet 3 sniper pair (aka sharpshooters team) ;D

From Barracks or from dismount?

He meant that the vet 3 sniper dismount the gun faster :-\.

blackbishop wrote:

Raydeen wrote:

IJoe wrote:
I'd really prefer a vet 3 sniper pair (aka sharpshooters team) ;D

From Barracks or from dismount?

He meant that the vet 3 sniper dismount the gun faster :-\.

Not that, but when a vehicle is shot down, or a HV crew is down to one man. Anyway, it was a joke, so there ain't much to discuss. Sorry, if it wasn't obvious from the start.  :-[

Raydeen wrote:
What about dismounting vehicle crews before they are about to explode and make them riflemen too?

Doesn't fit into EF, because EF wants to be an expansion to vCoH, not a mod like BK or BoB. Those mods actually change gameplay by throwing the original CoH-gameplay over board and creating something new, more "realistic", at least that's what they try to tell us.

Therefore your suggestions are for those mods, but not for a "costum-expansion" created by modders, like EF is.  :)

+ all the other reasons mentioned by the others.
It don't have anything to do with our "unwillingly for innovation", but our unwillingly to overthrow basic CoH-mechanics and actually creating a new game upon CoH-engine.

Superb gameplay is one of the main things that has made vCOH such a great game.

As mentioned before a core decision we made for our mod is to keep what Relic has made and simply expand on it, just like relic had done with OF.

To conclude, we'll never make changes to the actual gameplay mechanics and there is no point to argue otherwise.

No
NO
NOooo!