North Korean Shelling of South Korea.

Thaughts on it?

unstable political relations?
economical reasons?

I don't know...

Anyway...War is good when it's only a game!

kim yong-il is a retarded megalomaniac.
I bet he's planning on a big war

North Korean change in power, the fact that North Korea has nothing to loose economically, South Korea has one of the largest economies on the globe and the north would be more than happy to see that change.
Perhaps it is also Mr.Kim swinging around what he things to be 'his big sack' they just showed off a nuclear enrichment plant to some American scientist like they were a little five year old kid showing their dad what they made in the garage.
It probably won't turn into anything, it's just the north acting up if their not on front page news for a month they'll do something stupid like this to get attention.

ford_prefect wrote: attention.

+1
they are frustrated that US don't talk to them and offer economical help for exchange for NK nuclear program.

cephalos wrote:

ford_prefect wrote: attention.

+1
they are frustrated that US don't talk to them and offer economical help for exchange for NK nuclear program.

No MR. "Kim Yong il" realised there was no COD MW material for North Korea so he had to take action and create a conflict that might be the next COD sequal.

Snug wrote:

cephalos wrote:

ford_prefect wrote: attention.

+1
they are frustrated that US don't talk to them and offer economical help for exchange for NK nuclear program.

No MR. "Kim Yong il" realised there was no COD MW material for North Korea so he had to take action and create a conflict that might be the next COD sequal.

lol... I wonder if this will evolve to a war between them or they will save it for later :-\.

I can't wait for when SK and the USA get tired of this and Blitzkrieg North Korea.

Kimmie would be like, "Oh f**k, what did I just do?"

Does NK still have ties to the Chinese, Vietnamese Laos and Cambodians? Or did they erm Dissolve?

I guess that China won't fight US back. The Mr.Kim's regime is troublesome for them too...

Personally i think its time we (America and the SK) finish what we started in Korea over 50 years ago. If we don't do something, i fear that the story portrayed in "Homefront", may become reality.

All the signs point to it. We have a fumbeling economy all around the world. Korea is nuke arming itself. Everyone is screaming "stop that, Korea, is bad for you" and the UN is herping and derping that they also condemn them. Problem is, WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT IT. Starting to smell like the 1930s all over again........

Im A Korean (Parody) I Got A Feeling
...... ;) lightens the mood a bit.
I agree neosdark, best to put out the embers before the napalm arrives...... 

Last edited November 27, 2010 at 5:06 AM by Akalonor

neosdark wrote:
Personally i think its time we (America and the SK) finish what we started in Korea over 50 years ago. If we don't do something, i fear that the story portrayed in "Homefront", may become reality.

All the signs point to it. We have a fumbeling economy all around the world. Korea is nuke arming itself. Everyone is screaming "stop that, Korea, is bad for you" and the UN is herping and derping that they also condemn them. Problem is, WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT IT. Starting to smell like the 1930s all over again........

Chill out! NK poses no real threat  to US or even EU (due to the distance at least).
And it doesn't "smell like '30s" (- It smells like  teen spirit) cause NK isn't really capable of conquering any country around it.
Nukes are mostly a defensive weapon, simply guaranteeing no one is going to invade you, cause there is no point in shelling anyone with nukes before going in the area. Besides there are like tonnes of all sorts of international treaties, stating that countries, already having nukes in their possession, are to protect those that don't in case of nuclear attack (i.e. US's nuclear umbrella over Japan - isn't it peculiar and so really really neat  ::) )
Also, considering history, Korean war in '50s ended in an ugly nasty beating of US forces by chinese "volunteers" (about 200 000 of which joined NK army in a moment of it's near defeat, and turned the tides to the opposite).

A bad peace is far better than a decent war.

IJoe wrote:
Also, considering history, Korean war in '50s ended in an ugly nasty beating of US forces by chinese "volunteers" (about 200 000 of which joined NK army in a moment of it's near defeat, and turned the tides to the opposite).

Who cares about the dead Chinise. Their poor. Only US lives count.

Paciat wrote:
Who cares about the dead Chinise. Their poor. Only US lives count.

Is that you brand or what?
Why do you keep saying people's lives are insignificant?
If that is a sort of a refined humour, then I guess it's too thin for my poor simple mind.
You know, people, I don't really understand you, europians, americans - one day you are so damn proud of your civilized mind and manners, and just the next one you go like "lets kill 'em, lets kill 'em all" . You start wars on other countries saying: "Hey, they aren't democratic enough!" But the result of these wars is:
          a huge amount of civilian casualties, a totally destroyed infrastructure, plus chaos and anarchy, which, in turn, only multiply casualties and the sufferings of survivors; putting
          a puppet regime instead of the former (not much more democratic, as the facts witness) that is capable to last just as long as you support it militarily, and right alter this support is gone, the regime collapses in the most ugly way, or at least goes into a deep coma
          western "civilized" corporations earning gazillons of whatever their favourite currency is on "restoration" deals, - the only REAL result it is.

And after all that you consider yourself more civilized than people who chop off wrists for stealing? I mean you are killing for money on a large scale (which actually is considered a felony around the globe).

Make this phrase your logo:
"I must say, I hate violence, and would send a bullet in any violent mothe...cker's head myself, if I only could."

Last edited November 26, 2010 at 10:04 AM by IJoe

IJoe, I'm not sure where you are from, not that it's relevant, either way, I don't think there is a country in the world which has never done a thing like that. Also, you make it sound as if all Europeans and Americans are the way you say. I'd like to point out to you that there are more than enough people in Europe who are opposed to the war in Afghanistan and Iraq (and they have been so since the start of those wars).
Cheers

@Tico_1990
The above open letter of mine was addressed to war-lovers that hide behind any mask, be it communism, patriotism, or democratization, liberalization, and civilization of "dose savage fellas"
I, myself, am russian, and before the storm breakes, I am pacifist. The only people that deserve death by a hand of russian - are those who came to take our homeland (any bit of it), took freedom from our people or brought death to them.
In other words: "Come with a sword - die by a sword."  It, actually, is written on the banner of the town of my birth since deep middle ages.

Last edited November 26, 2010 at 11:09 AM by IJoe

Aren't we speaking about North Korea or what?

IJoe, you should really stop to blame every european, american and stop to glorify russia like this. Paciat is polish, but I never saw him glorify Poland (and btw, if you cant understand 'refined' humour, thats your problem). I'm french and I'm not speaking about france everywhere and everytime (this isnt due to the fact that COH is a WW2 game lool  ;D ).

So lets stop it and go back to the topic!

Red_Stinger wrote:
Aren't we speaking about North Korea or what?

IJoe, you should really stop to blame every european, american and stop to glorify russia like this. Paciat is polish, but I never saw him glorify Poland (and btw, if you cant understand 'refined' humour, thats your problem). I'm french and I'm not speaking about france everywhere and everytime (this isnt due to the fact that COH is a WW2 game lool  ;D ).

So lets stop it and go back to the topic!

Point me out all instances where I did glorify Russia in this topic, if you don't mind.
I know Paciat is polish, it's in his profile.
I was talking about the simple fact that jokes like that are glorifying fascist psychology and are unacceptable for anyone, considered a proper human being.

IJoe wrote:
a huge amount of civilian casualties, a totally destroyed infrastructure, plus chaos and anarchy, which, in turn, only multiply casualties and the sufferings of survivors

My point was that its not the US that had their asses kicked in Korea or Vietnam. People seem to forget what you just pointed out. I accually like the US army as it cares about their soldiers more than most armies do.

Quote
a puppet regime instead of the former (not much more democratic, as the facts witness) that is capable to last just as long as you support it militarily, and right alter this support is gone, the regime collapses in the most ugly way, or at least goes into a deep coma

Just like the true communist ideas collapsed. Every country has its military to prevent that. If a country is filled with fucked up religious fanatics, they will win allways civil war to overthrown the democratic goverment even though they are a minority.
IRA was a good exemple(becouse its in Europe). People didnt like the UK army (people hate Police) but IRA had very low support of N. Ireland civilians (5%). But they fought anyway.

Last edited November 26, 2010 at 12:03 PM by Paciat

Paciat wrote:
If a country is filled with fucked up religious fanatics, they will win allways civil war to overthrown the democratic goverment even though they are a minority.

How can a country be possibly filled with a minority?
If the great majority of the population of some country are such lunatics (like in Iran i.e.) - well, it's their choice, and they'll have to live with it. What right has any country to state it's laws and life philosophy outside of it's borders? None, if you ask me.

IJoe wrote:
How can a country be possibly filled with a minority?
If the great majority of the population of some country are such lunatics (like in Iran i.e.) - well, it's their choice, and they'll have to live with it. What right has any country to state it's laws and life philosophy outside of it's borders? None, if you ask me.

Sure, If they dont attack anyone.
US allways had reasons to start a war. Even if those reasons were puny (terrorists hiding in mountains, being protected by the goverment becouse of their religion) US allways had them. I also dont blame US for benefiting from these wars. I mean US dosnt make soap from Taliban fat, they dont cut of their hands or burn their eyes out. They just use their Oil to move their armored "peacekeeping" vechicles.

but what we're talking about here is North-Korea..
which by the way has twice the amount of troops of america and russia combined (5 million) and having nukes.. (Ijoe said they don't have the means..)
And a psychopathic megalomaniac in charge of a brainwashed population..
I think it's necessity to do something about it..

SK8ERatWAR wrote:
but what we're talking about here is North-Korea..
which by the way has twice the amount of troops of america and russia combined (5 million) and having nukes.. (Ijoe said they don't have the means..)
And a psychopathic megalomaniac in charge of a brainwashed population..
I think it's necessity to do something about it..

I think, you have to be sure that they are up to some serious action, and that assurance doesn't come to me after some border incident, which could be a simple setup, before you strike the first blow. All their minions of underarmed brainwashed soldiers aren't that much of a threat, considering modern age military technology in possession of NATO. Somehow China doesn't seem to bother about North Korea, though they do have a same border, unlike european countries or the US. The existence of nuclear technology without the proper means of it's delivery (and they don't have such to deliver a nuke to europe nor the US) is not a threat. Besides, there are no facts, firmly proving North Korea has it anyway, apart from words, that could be a simple attempt to scare off the potential threat of foreign invasion.

Last edited November 26, 2010 at 5:31 PM by IJoe

IF America Needed to draft people, soldier count would be far more then 5 million...

IJoe wrote:

SK8ERatWAR wrote:
but what we're talking about here is North-Korea..
which by the way has twice the amount of troops of america and russia combined (5 million) and having nukes.. (Ijoe said they don't have the means..)
And a psychopathic megalomaniac in charge of a brainwashed population..
I think it's necessity to do something about it..

I think, you have to be sure that they are up to some serious action, and that insurance doesn't come to me after some border incident, which could be a simple setup, before you strike the first blow. All their minions of underarmed brainwashed soldiers aren't that much of a threat, considering modern age military technoligy in possession of NATO. Somehow China doesn't seem to bother about North Korea, though they do have a same border, unlike european countries or the US. The existence of nuclear technology without the proper means of it's delivery (and they don't have such to deliver a nuke to europe nor the US) is not a threat. Besides, there are no facts, firmly proving North Korea has it anyway, apart from words, that could be a simple attempt to scare off the potential threat of foreign invasion.

yeah but i believe that, that border incident is such a serious action, that it is an act of war.. The 2nd world war started by leaders that were to anxious about making a step towards attacking germany. (or at least lasting this long, and having so many casualties)
I know that that's more then 60 years behind us and we're much more smarter now (sort of), but I think North-Korea, or just KYI isn't, to know it's a foolish act to make any kind of big invasion, yet he's smart enough that neither the US or the EU will do anything against "small" border incidents and such.. just like that torpedoeing of that south korean ship.. All these actions: mobilising their army, sinking a SK army vessel and attacking SK, with civilian casualties is big enough to react to by NATO

SK8ERatWAR wrote:
yeah but i believe that, that border incident is such a serious action, that it is an act of war.. The 2nd world war started by leaders that were to anxious about making a step towards attacking germany. (or at least lasting this long, and having so many casualties)
I know that that's more then 60 years behind us and we're much more smarter now (sort of), but I think North-Korea, or just KYI isn't, to know it's a foolish act to make any kind of big invasion, yet he's smart enough that neither the US or the EU will do anything against "small" border incidents and such.. just like that torpedoeing of that south korean ship.. All these actions: mobilising their army, sinking a SK army vessel and attacking SK, with civilian casualties is big enough to react to by NATO

Just so that you know, since you are so seriously inclined to make political decisions of that scale and importance, both Koreas don't have the same understanding of their common border, which means that any of them would fire at any vessel or craft, trespassing "their" territory, while the other side would fairly consider it an "act of war", for each of them sees the disputed territories as their own.
Yeah, by the way, is the South Korea a member of NATO? If not, then NATO can not legally react to any act of aggression towards any country except the ones that signed the North Atlantic Treaty Organization pact. In simple words, any act of war, committed by NATO armed forces outside the terms of the treaty, mentioned above, will be no more then an international crime, but NATO and US don't seem to give a shit about any kind of laws anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if the upcoming "scheduled" military training at the "South Korean" border will outgrow into a full scale war.
No offence to those of you, who, like myself, don't favour war as an instance.

Last edited November 26, 2010 at 5:57 PM by IJoe

Afaik South Korea isn't part of NATO.

blackbishop wrote:
Afaik South Korea isn't part of NATO.

Yeah, I know... I was being sarcastic... Shame on me  ::)

SK8ERatWAR wrote:
but what we're talking about here is North-Korea..
which by the way has twice the amount of troops of america and russia combined (5 million) and having nukes.. (Ijoe said they don't have the means..)
And a psychopathic megalomaniac in charge of a brainwashed population..
I think it's necessity to do something about it..

Yea, but they're all conscripts. And still use T-34's.

First of all, the korea's are still at war, they have never signed a peace treaty, just a cease-fire.
Secondly, South Korea can't possibly be a NATO member since it's not located on the North Atlantic ocean. As IJoe said any intervention by NATO forces in the korean conflict has no legal basis what so ever. The NATO was established to defend its member countries from any aggression on any of its members.
The UN however can intervene in a legal manner. Interestingly enough though, if the UN were to intervene, than China and Russia could join in.
Either way, I don't believe that the US/S-Korea will start a war over this. It's not worth the trouble. On top of that, public opinion in the US isn't exactly positive to war at the moment I think.
As for the deployement options of N-Korean's nukes, they might be unable to hit the USA or Europe it self, they can however hit South Korea and Japan, both of which contain US militairy bases. On top of that, if I'm not mistaken than the US signed a treaty saying that they will protect Japan from nuclear aggression.
Any way, I'll be more than interested to see how this develops.

Tico_1990 wrote:
First of all, the korea's are still at war, they have never signed a peace treaty, just a cease-fire.

Damn, I was saving it as a last resort  :P

SK8ERatWAR wrote:
but what we're talking about here is North-Korea..
which by the way has twice the amount of troops of america and russia combined (5 million)

According to Wiki:
According to the U.S. Department of State, North Korea has the fifth-largest army in the world, at an estimated 1.21 million armed personnel, with about 20% of men aged 17–54 in the regular armed forces.

Still an impresive number of "Volk Koreans", but if Russia called their reserve (constripts that got training but are not in the army right now) 5 times as more men.

Paciat wrote:
Who cares about the dead Chinise. Their poor. Only US lives count.

You either:
1.forgot smileys
2.are very self indulged and ignorant
3. very Rascist
All that aside:

Something is brewing , NK is pawing for attention, who nos , they may get some.

Well, if a Second Korean War Bles out...
NK Can't call on more l33t Soviet Pilots ;)

It's probably all down to the fact Kim's son is now officially going to take up leadership - they're wanting to show that they're still cool and powerful, and nothing's going to change.

Either way, they chose a shitty time to do it.
China is well on it's way to becoming the richest - and therefore most powerful country in the world, with debts to China reaching the trillions. So they can't be fucked endangering they're enterprise; they're too capitalist.
Plus, EU + Russia have decided finally to work together to make an Anti-Nuke shield over Europe. Meaning it's highly unlikely they'll join in (least not on NK's side) cos they're finally getting some trust and union with the rest of the world (thereby; power), Pre-Soviet, Pre-Georgia, Pre-Anything else the Americans don't like just cos it's the Russians doing it (even if they would've liked to).


I'm sure before 2000, or earlier this all could've been a lot worse (although we did have a Korean War already) - but right down, no one can be fucked with Korea - they've got too much on their plates.
It's like, "Now Kim, be a good boy and go play in your room, Mummy's busy."

Timing and current era, in my opinion, means that the armies of the 142 million strong population of Russia and 1.3 billion population of China; won't be on North Korea's side this time if it does something stupid.

I think, that the SU since about 1985, or Russia at any time would not go into any kind of full scale war because of North Korea due to the simple fact, that the government of both states accordingly, nor the general population never really cared about NK  (unlike Yugoslavia  i.e.). It would've been rather left for China.

Last edited November 28, 2010 at 2:06 PM by IJoe

i guess you're right ;)
we'll see what happens!
but indeed, if they do something stupid, they won't have the support of China and Russia.

i have just recently seen an ex-NK elite soldier (who defected 5 years ago) talk about the state of the NK-Army
He sayd they are not ready for any war cause they lack food, fuel and most of the massive numbers are compsed of "consripts" with only AK-47 and nor armor or AT whatsoever

Paciat wrote:

IJoe wrote:
Also, considering history, Korean war in '50s ended in an ugly nasty beating of US forces by chinese "volunteers" (about 200 000 of which joined NK army in a moment of it's near defeat, and turned the tides to the opposite).

Who cares about the dead Chinise. Their poor. Only US lives count.

The Chinese followed soviet style tactics back in Korea, (Alot of Human Waves= US Troops fall back) The Sheer amount of men started to overrun US troops, this shows little regard for there troops, so when they over-expanded they ran the other way, falling back to the 38th Parallel. Now for the shelling, NK is F***ed economically, they have nothing to lose. Now (this is what I think at least) the US is just waiting for the NK to go into a revolution and let the situation play out. Then we can guess what happens next. Although, to conuterdict my own statement, the NK has (I think its the 3rd) 3rd largest army in the world, and they could do a Tiananmen Square 1989 all over again.

Mr wrote:

Paciat wrote:

IJoe wrote:
Also, considering history, Korean war in '50s ended in an ugly nasty beating of US forces by chinese "volunteers" (about 200 000 of which joined NK army in a moment of it's near defeat, and turned the tides to the opposite).

Who cares about the dead Chinise. Their poor. Only US lives count.

The Chinese followed soviet style tactics back in Korea, (Alot of Human Waves= US Troops fall back) The Sheer amount of men started to overrun US troops, this shows little regard for there troops, so when they over-expanded they ran the other way, falling back to the 38th Parallel. Now for the shelling, NK is F***ed economically, they have nothing to lose. Now (this is what I think at least) the US is just waiting for the NK to go into a revolution and let the situation play out. Then we can guess what happens next. Although, to conuterdict my own statement, the NK has (I think its the 3rd) 3rd largest army in the world, and they could do a Tiananmen Square 1989 all over again.

I could argue on the most said above, but what's the point? You, americans, know everything about everything (that's sarcasm), and always turn out to be "right", aren't you? So I'll just shut my "comi mouth" and celebrate the New Year!

Cheers to you, "freedom"-lovers, that started most of wars in the last hundred years!!!

Look, even if North Korea's convential military can't reach any of the US or EU terriortories, the North Koreans can launch nukes at Japan and South Korea and will kill millions. They don't have to be sucessful, the impact of even 5 nukes on SK and Japan would be enough to devastate those nations. They don't really have any natrual resources, so they can't rebuild like the Us or EU nations. So we should do something before NK turns to nuking those 2 countries.

Panzer4life wrote:
Look, even if North Korea's convential military can't reach any of the US or EU terriortories, the North Koreans can launch nukes at Japan and South Korea and will kill millions. They don't have to be sucessful, the impact of even 5 nukes on SK and Japan would be enough to devastate those nations. They don't really have any natrual resources, so they can't rebuild like the Us or EU nations. So we should do something before NK turns to nuking those 2 countries.

Yeah! Sure! Why not?
Right after you find any WoMD in Irak. OK?

IJoe wrote:

Panzer4life wrote:
Look, even if North Korea's convential military can't reach any of the US or EU terriortories, the North Koreans can launch nukes at Japan and South Korea and will kill millions. They don't have to be sucessful, the impact of even 5 nukes on SK and Japan would be enough to devastate those nations. They don't really have any natrual resources, so they can't rebuild like the Us or EU nations. So we should do something before NK turns to nuking those 2 countries.

Yeah! Sure! Why not?
Right after you find any WoMD in Irak. OK?

That was Bush's fault, and he made us all look bad.

Mr wrote:

IJoe wrote:

Panzer4life wrote:
Look, even if North Korea's convential military can't reach any of the US or EU terriortories, the North Koreans can launch nukes at Japan and South Korea and will kill millions. They don't have to be sucessful, the impact of even 5 nukes on SK and Japan would be enough to devastate those nations. They don't really have any natrual resources, so they can't rebuild like the Us or EU nations. So we should do something before NK turns to nuking those 2 countries.

Yeah! Sure! Why not?
Right after you find any WoMD in Irak. OK?

That was Bush's fault, and he made us all look bad.

WW2 was Hitler's fault, and his alone. He made germans look just so bad: he made them slay all those innocent people of all "untermenshen" nationalities, he practically forced them, personally. In fact, germans themselves share no part of his disgrace. Am I right? If yes, than you surely have a point, since the next war USA are going to start will be a fault of yet another president.

What the heck IJoe? I hate how countrys hate Americans, it really doesn't make sense. Tell me 3 good reasons you hate Americans, and don't make up something like "There lazy" or "they hate everyone"

Am getting sick of it, I can dis all your countries if I wanted to. (Except The United Kingdom, I like those Countries).

If your going to Stereotype all Americans as Pigs and War Starters, am just doing to stereotype all Germans as Nazis, Russia as Communist Idiots, Chinese as poor stuiped people, Italy as peoples that only likes pizza etc, too.

Keep on topic guys >:(.

Seeme wrote:
What the heck IJoe? I hate how countrys hate Americans, it really doesn't make sense. Tell me 3 good reasons you hate Americans, and don't make up something like "There lazy" or "they hate everyone"

Am getting sick of it, I can dis all your countries if I wanted to. (Except The United Kingdom, I like those Countries).

If your going to Stereotype all Americans as Pigs and War Starters, am just doing to stereotype all Germans as Nazis, Russia as Communist Idiots, Chinese as poor stuiped people, Italy as peoples that only likes pizza etc, too.

How stupid! How American! HA-HA-HA!!!  ;D ;D ;D

IJoe wrote:
WW2 was Hitler's fault, and his alone. He made germans look just so bad: he made them slay all those innocent people of all "untermenshen" nationalities, he practically forced them, personally. In fact, germans themselves share no part of his disgrace. Am I right?

...and his allies, also the USRR. Unless youre saing what Soviets did - that WWII started with "the great patriotic war".

Also NSDAP wasnt a 1 man party, axis powers wasnt just 1 country. Some Germans are too blame, some Austrians and Czechs too. There were Italians and Japanese too. A lot of pro German men were in Spain, Balkans, Middle East.

Quote
...since the next war USA are going to start will be a fault of yet another president.

I fought the Talibans were the fault of the last war. Are you saing that the US president was Taliban? ;D

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Post Merge: [time]1294080394[/time]

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IJoe wrote:

Seeme wrote:
What the heck IJoe? I hate how countrys hate Americans, it really doesn't make sense. Tell me 3 good reasons you hate Americans, and don't make up something like "There lazy" or "they hate everyone"

Am getting sick of it, I can dis all your countries if I wanted to. (Except The United Kingdom, I like those Countries).

If your going to Stereotype all Americans as Pigs and War Starters, am just doing to stereotype all Germans as Nazis, Russia as Communist Idiots, Chinese as poor stuiped people, Italy as peoples that only likes pizza etc, too.

How stupid! How American! HA-HA-HA!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Lol couldnt answer. ;D ;D ;D ::) :P
You just hate the US cause everyoune tells you too.

Last edited January 3, 2011 at 6:46 PM by Paciat

Oh, relent! The last post of mine was a joke, nothing more... Sorry, if it was all that offending.
I don't hate US. I've been there twice, and stayed for long.
All I was saying, and I think it's obvious, that arguments like, "it was his fault" aren't really valid.
I love you, guys... Well, most of you that is.  :D