Disable Skirmish / Locked games

I know a lot of noobs are going to flame me for this; I really don't care about them.  You go into EF for a 1v1 or 2v2, no one joins.  You look outside the lobby, you see like 5 skirmish games going on, some locked.  Lots of Leningrad, Stalingrad, Sheldt, Vire River, Orel garbage going on.  Even if you offer 2v1, no one joins.

Some people will say that eliminating skirmish games will decrease the amount of people playing EF.  Probably so, but do we really need them anyways?  They're not playing with other people anyways, so its not going to hurt the EF community.  Rather, disabling skirmish games will force them to come out for more PvP, and for those that are insistent on hiding in skirmish games, tough luck.

Read the whole post before commenting.  I'd like to hear some serious comments on this.  No flaming from skirmish noobs.

Last edited September 16, 2010 at 7:07 PM by Chancellor

This isn't a good idea, besides it'll go against CoH spirit, some users doesn't have a good internet connection or even have no connection at all.

Usually when haunting bugs I'll go to skirmish(except the last time, Seeme helped instead of AI :)).

IMO Dev team wouldn't approve this either :-\.

1)Like it or not, when you log onto coh, you'll notice 50% of people at least play skirmish/private games, not automatch or even pvp. People who play automatch/pvp and skirmish are equally important.

2)Removing the option for the people who play skirmish games will simply lead to them not playing the mod at all and pick some other mod or vanila coh to play skirmish. You can't force people to play with/against you. So ultimately there is no gain for anyone.

3)It's not the mod's problem or fault really. You have to look at GR for example which has the largest community of coh players who mainly do automatch and pvp...this is what we got about why they don't play the mod...
*They don't play it cause there aren't enough players-note they self defeat their own argument by not playing-there is no way people like that get maths
*They cannot be arsed to invest time on learning to play with and against a new faction-wtf?
*They won't play it cause the mod download is too big!-wtf?
*They won't play it cause that fragments the 'pvp player base'-wtf?

Now looking at this...tell me that you really think the problem is people playing skirmish games.... ::)

We've addressed(or for the most part) the concerns about soviet balance as well as throwing in the fix for the vanila balance everyone was craving for. the mod is dead easy to install and update like regular coh.
So, why would we take a step that will hurt the people who play and enjoy the mod in order to try and please a nearly impossible to please minority? Where is the logic in that?

To sum up, the problem lies squarely with the COH playerbase not EF mod.

Last edited September 16, 2010 at 8:04 PM by Zerstörer

I log into vCoH and yes, there's like 50% who play skirmish.
Log into EF, there's like 90% who play skirmish.

Add to the fact that EF doesn't have enough players, and PvP is nonexistent, so I guess I really am part of the minority.

I guess the problem is not enough decent players want to try EF  :(

As I said, its nothing to do with the mod. Not our fault in any way.  Just look at the 'reasons' I posted and tell me honestly that they are even remotely reasonable and something we as a mod could address. What, make EF a 2 mb download?
The silliest thing people came up with is, for us to substitute relic and keep creating small balance patches for vanila to keep them happy-and remove the soviets from EF so its a small download!. I mean wtf?

Just to note one last thing so you don't get the wrong idea about us.
I was the primary individual who insisted on getting GR people to help out balance to make sure the Soviet faction appeals to them as pvp gamers. Our goal has always been to produce an expansion to rival relic's own and we have tried very hard to make sure the end product meets that standard.
As it turned out, the current GR player base just doesn't want another expansion(majority of the forum and official tournaments only use vCOH not ToV/OF).

However, there is still a good future because the COH:O will generate a new 'fresh' community of mostly new open minded players who are likely to want to try vanila COH and all the mod options it offers. So, you may yet see an increase of pvp players by teh time we get Ostheer out.

In hindsight, hoorey for relic making their own mod rather than keep patching the same game for those impossible to please in the last 4 years. It wouldn't bring back any new/old players.
Now, if only they helped the modding community at the same time, it would have been great!

Last edited September 16, 2010 at 9:15 PM by Zerstörer

I never thought or claimed it was the EF team's fault there's not enough PvP.  It can't be your faults, because you guys just made a great product, and it just so happened people don't want to play against each other.

However, I disagree with "hurray for them not patching".  They introduced this ToV kangaroo bullshit that ruined the game, and never fixed it.  If they fix the very obvious imbalances like kangaroo / 1 second arty and people still bitch about the small stuff, then yes, I agree that there are some "impossible to please" folks, but atm the kangaroos are just a huge glaring imba.

Not in EF it iant ;D

The only reason to play is to have a little escapist fun, playing a different way once in a while.  Try playing a skirmish or basic match with a mix of talent, work together win or lose, teach/learn something.  But dont throw a tantrum because no one wants to play "your" way.
Nobody else cares what your levels are.  I dont care what mine are either.  It doesn't make me feel better to win a "game" it doesn't matter!! It's for the fun of it.
Thanks be to the Dev's for putting in the effort of these mods.

Oooh contraversial :P.

Selfishly, I agree that compstomp skirmishes (with multiple people vs coms) should be disabled but computer only matches should be allowed, for those with the shit net.

Unselfishly, I think it's actually fun for some people to play against the coms. Although it doesn't help with finding games for PvPers it's still important to please all of the consumers, and we don't want to take away a basic (popular) gamemode that is otherwise available in vCoH or they may simply leave.

2v2 on the weekend Chancellor?

As Dennis says, selfishly I agree too, I'm not particularly good at the game but it is frustrating going online just to see people compstomping and not many PvP games going on.

However just stick around for a while and you can usually get a 2v2 going in about 10 minutes, atleast I seem to find.

But yeah, a lot of people don't want to play PvP, and with the attitudes of many people who play CoH online, I can't really blame them.

Still, when I get some decent internet I'm sure I'll (attempt) to be good at EF online.

Nice snazzy new background too  :)

Cheers

luz777 wrote:
As Dennis says, selfishly I agree too, I'm not particularly good at the game but it is frustrating going online just to see people compstomping and not many PvP games going on.

Thats probably becouse not everyone is a 10+ lvl "player stomper".
If Skirmish games were disabled people would simply stop playing this mod.

I play skirmish after every patch to check new units before sending them into real battle.

@ Dennis:

Sure man, if Snugz gets back by then, we'll do a 2v2.  I might have some RL thing to do on Saturday though.

@ lulz

10 minutes to find a game is a pretty long time.  :-\

It's even longer for me for some reason.  Yes, my proposal was a bit selfish, but hey, the lack of PvPers is killing EF for the minority like myself.  Surely you don't expect someone to sit around the whole day just to wait for one game.  I really like playing against the Russians, but having to wait like half an hour for one game makes EF unplayable.

Last edited September 17, 2010 at 5:49 PM by Chancellor

The problem with this game is that there's no impetus for people to at least try a game against humans. Many people who only play compstomps are worried about losing horribly to better people if they ever try it.

Something CoH:O actually did well was to make automatch more appealing by providing greater rewards over basic matches and skirmishes. Unfortunate that it can't be applied to this game. I would hope that CoH:O actually does increase the CoH playerbase because they play it and see how unfair and bs the RPG aspects are, but see the awesomeness of the base RTS game. Maybe in a few months we'll see more CoH players?

GodlikeDennis wrote:
The problem with this game is that there's no impetus for people to at least try a game against humans. Many people who only play compstomps are worried about losing horribly to better people if they ever try it.

There is also the fact that COH for some reason also has higher proportion of abusive players commonly seen. 1v1 vs someone who is a douche is just not all that appealing. GR is a prime example where new players are anything but welcome. Thick skin is needed....

QuoteSomething CoH:O actually did well was to make automatch more appealing by providing greater rewards over basic matches and skirmishes. Unfortunate that it can't be applied to this game. I would hope that CoH:O actually does increase the CoH playerbase because they play it and see how unfair and bs the RPG aspects are, but see the awesomeness of the base RTS game. Maybe in a few months we'll see more CoH players?

COH:O is a sound concept and anyone new to COH I believe will love it. Saying that, its not my cup of tea. As I previously said, I believe it will bring in a new fresh community that will breath fresh air into COH replacing the current old, ever winning, dwindling community  who just don't want any change.

Zerstörer wrote:
There is also the fact that COH for some reason also has higher proportion of abusive players commonly seen. 1v1 vs someone who is a douche is just not all that appealing. GR is a prime example where new players are anything but welcome. Thick skin is needed...

Aye, exactly my point, I would say the lack of PvP is atleast partly caused by amount of said abusive players.

But yeah, it does suck abit, I'd much rather play actual people (abusive or not) than more games against the comp. Although the new AI does make it a lot more fun. Thanks EF  :)

How you can be an abusive player if you are not playing the Brits is beyond me.

TOMITOMA level strafespam, piospam against Brits, Pak creeping/AT gun sniping, G43 slow spam all come to mind immediately.

Even though I dont play EF anymore for a number of reasons. This has to be the most selfish thing that I have seen on the EF forums.(no offense) Its the same as if I would start whining about that pvp matches should be removed because....etc.
Some have alot of fun with comp stomps.

And I experienced that if you are playing pvp, people will do anything to win as fast as possible. so what you will get, are lame tactics,spam rushes, bug exploits etc etc. And most the majority of the people are douches. So no thank you.

I rather play PvCpu with a mate and have fun. I like building a whole defensive line with 88's I like using almost all the units of a faction.

And I dont really care what people play if you like pvp well go ahead play it all you want. and if you dont like it the way it is why dont you make your own mod. And if you dont want to do that well then its though luck for you

Last edited September 19, 2010 at 1:13 PM by Bjassie

Very true, 2 sides of the same coin. However I was also referring to the abusive language of players, not just their gameplay.

On another note, what's the point of hanging around a mod forum when you're not playing the mod? Surely its time spent much better elsewhere  ::)

oh yes thats another reason why I dont play pvp the foul language gets tiring after a while.

And I am just waiting till some things will be fixed perhaps. just keeping an eye open for when I can return.

I have never experienced foul language to the extend that it actually becomes a problem. In less than 3% of my games do I see or hear foul language, and I have been an avid automatch player since middle 2008. Besides this is the internet, you will always get some foul language on it.

On topic, I disagree with disabling skirmish and compstomps, but maybe remove the bottleneck and campy maps? (could be done by having a poll for the best maps)

No doubt you can ignore the bad language, but it still gets tiresome and lame.

On the subject, we won't dictate the manner in which people want to play games using the mod. That's up to them.
''In Soviet Union the mod plays you''- In EF you play the mod  ;)

Bjassie wrote:
...
And most the majority of the people are douches. So no thank you.
...

This is a generalisation and is completely untrue. The MAJORITY of players are very nice people. We share tips at the game's conclusion, discuss the state of balance and exciting events during the game, are courteous throughout the game and abuse far less than you would think. The abusive play comes from higher level people who have superiority complexes and middle level people who care only about winning but can't do so without abusing (because they suck pretty much). The abusive language mostly comes from very low level basic match players who are basically foul-mouthed children or adults who will never be someone - ingame or real life.

The middle ~80% of people are perfectly normal, rational and friendly human beings who are a pleasure to play against. I resent your holier-than-thou attitude towards PvP gamers.

Zerstörer wrote:
On the subject, we won't dictate the manner in which people want to play games using the mod. That's up to them.
''In Soviet Union the mod plays you''- In EF you play the mod  ;)

Owned :P , putting it like that, I agree.

One problem the lower and mid level players experience, is their team mates dropping from games that don't go their way.  Leaving them hanging, if they stick it out maybe they win a game that took more than 35 minutes(heaven forbid).  It's a loss when dropping anyway.  The one I really love is getting kicked from games when someone doesn't like your play(poor admittedly, but having fun!), then they are playing with the computer AI  they hate.

redtail666 wrote:
One problem the lower and mid level players experience, is their team mates dropping from games that don't go their way.  Leaving them hanging, if they stick it out maybe they win a game that took more than 35 minutes(heaven forbid).  It's a loss when dropping anyway. 

Cough...drophack...cough!  ::)

One day I should find out how to make a Mini Mod to avoid Drophacks. One reason I like EF is people aren't doing much drop hacks. Good Job :)

OT:
I think EF still suffers a little from the bad reputation it got from pvp'ers in the release version, mainly balance.

But its fixed and EF has never been better, still theres alot of narrow minded people who would rather talk bs about the mod, than give it another try. But hey we can't force them to drink vine if they want dirty water.

On topic.
Leave it as it is, there should be something for everyone.

Hmm harsh language eh? Then you ladies and gentlemen definitely don't want to play with me over the likes of TeamSpeak, I cuss a ton while playing games quite the foul-mouthed individual if I be completely honest.

Yet it's never directed at any other players it's always directed at the artificial intelligence of my forces for doing seemingly stupid stuff i.e taking 10 plus seconds to throw a satchel charge (really?) Or myself if I do something completely idiotic.

Regards Hawk (Silk)

that's why they made COH-O. (Online).
Now you got an impetus to play against PLAYERS ;)

Now, how long until Reliq accepts PE/Brits?
How long until they accept Soviets/OstHeer? ;)

I've seen, watched somewhere (I recall researchers for some big game developer, could have been EA ) that over 60% of ppl play, only play vs the comp no matter what game, even if it was intended to be multiplayer (first person shooter, RTS, etc).

That's alot of ppl you are trying to turn away from the game. I do play EF every now and then and would focus more on it myself if the population cap was removed entirely for all sides.

Don't think there was much need in reawakening this thread, undisputably (in my opinion) a bad idea that will never happen, no need to bring it up from the well it fell into over 2 months ago.

You're late pal, this topic died two months ago. Thread Locked.