omfg... Doesnt anybody see how much are mass Tank Hunters+ sniper spam strong?

Against PE especially... Those freakin snipers are health tanks by default...a I had three G43's squads focus fire on em(vetted) and the bugger still didnt die...
Cuz 3 tank hunter teams destroy pretty much anything that PE has to offer...(upgraded)
I tried the mortar halftrack to burn em and but failed with little effect.

Besides that Im a douchebag and have no sense of balance... tell me how wrong I am in the comments below

Snipers are already considered a problem and there's another thread about them.

Tank hunters in this patch are perfectly fine.

PE should have absolutely no trouble with anything infantry based. Armoured cars or infantry halftracks are the way to go.

I just played a 2v2 as wher and got owned by that as well.

If he's spamming them, he doesn't have much other infantry or vehicles. Have you tried using 2 WH snipers? MP40 volks?

Believe me i sympathise, this sniper vs PE thing has nearly made me put my fist through the monitor on a couple of occasions lol.  :(

Zerstörer wrote:
If he's spamming them, he doesn't have much other infantry or vehicles. Have you tried using 2 WH snipers? MP40 volks?

Mp40 volks yes, snipers, didn't really have the mp for it or thought about it truthfully, reinforcing my volks and mg had a bad drain on my MP. But will try it next time, thanks. And for some reason I kept thinking nebels will save me, which it failed to do.  :P

Actually im trying to point out how this combo is deadly for PE...Wehr has a much wider selection of units to use against this.

Bugger, you counter my snipers all the time, you gotta be kidding me.

Leepriest wrote:
Actually im trying to point out how this combo is deadly for PE...Wehr has a much wider selection of units to use against this.

True, sorry for the hijack.

I don’t see the problem, especially vs PE or Wehr for that matter. If he has sharpshooters and tank hunters then that means he spent 70 fuel because those guys are not on the same tech tree in the support barracks. That's going to delay his tank hall. Why would you upgrade three PG to g43s? That's a waste. One is plenty, maybe two. If your playing a turtle game with PE vs Soviets then yes its going to be a problem. You cut off his resources and use inf HT and armored cars long before he gets a mass of anything, mp44 for your PG.  You chase down the sharp shooters with armor car, all the way home if you have to. Use over drive to escape from tank hunters. Do this in combination with g43 slow shot. Also the mortar HT is awesome vs soviets. Then later shricks and murdar for AT.  If he has mass sharp shooters and tank hunters then your doing it wrong. Butterfly bombs are awesome vs Soviets, seldom will they tech to the mine sweepers.
I don’t play a lot of PE but in 1v1 I would go luftwaffe. If you can sneak in a cloaked kitten and supported Marder and take down his tank hall, its game over right there.

I think T1/T3 pumas is best for Wehr. You can always back tech for pak if you see the Sherman call in. Or if your map control is good wait out for T4

Last edited September 7, 2010 at 1:38 PM by Sonders

Its the same way around a little

Haven't lost a single game with pe

Just go defensive mp44 and hetzers

Against soviet vet is the key to everything.

So each game goes like this:

I go dual - Tripple scout cars and caps like crazy while delaying soviet and stops sniper spam completely early game.

He starts getting ptrd's and tech up.

I get my ass handed to me by my build just trying to delay the soviets.

I start getting hetzers -> push out time to time and vet up.

Roll over them with v3 defensive bonus full army.





I really do think its balanced and while unit vs unit you might lose one has to take in consideration of all the time the enemy had to get all those sharpshooters.

I don't think the problem is the actual snipers or the PTDRs. 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think its the crit chance of the spotter that's ridiculously high.  IMO the spotter's rifle needs a nerf.  Also perhaps the tank hunters without PTDRs also need their rifles nerfed so that they can't also be used as front-line infantry even if they are un-upgraded.

Leepriest wrote:
Actually im trying to point out how this combo is deadly for PE...Wehr has a much wider selection of units to use against this.

MP44 squads are the anser. Youll have 4 man squads before Soviets have both upgrades. Muni halftrack will help youre units stay on the field.

If you want Tank hunter rifles to be nerfed than Grenadier rifles should be nerfed as well.

Can someone confirm this... Do THs have a very similar rifle to Gren wehr:elite K98s? They seem to be about this good.

Personally I don't see THs are a problem overall, however their nades do slightly too much damage. Sharpshooters are the problem. Yes the crit chance is too high on the spotter, and the health is slightly too much as well. Zerst already confirmed that they're fiddling with the sniper team already.

QuoteAgainst soviet vet is the key to everything.

You got that right. Alot of Soviet players will go heavy on conscripts thinking they are meat shields, but what they really are is vet fodder for PE. they get vet so fast like that.

Hell, a 220mp no fuel scout car can chase sharpshooters down and kill them. Sharp shooters take a nerf with no other changes then its pointless to play Soviets any more because you will most likely be facing PE every time.

maybe that was you I just played. I was Soviets, had a Brit team mate that didn't know what the hell we was doing. Scout cars kept chasing my sharp shooters down. Had to put them in the HQ twice to save them.

I know this is hard for some people... but try to focus to remember that this is a thread of a combo of units... NOT ONLY THE SNIPER.

And the thing is... The snipers are usually a little back from the group of mass Tank Hunters...and my claim is not the fact that you couldnt not beat them... but having a 100+ APM while they push A and micro only the snipers a little back and achieving marvelous results. Nerf the snipers health and the problem will vanish. Even if I flank the group and go overdrive to kill the snipers the AT group kills em before they can even scratch the sniper group, especially if they are in yellow or better cover. An Infantry assault is madness even by backed up by a Muni HT to reinforce as the TH will annihilate it in seconds and as the TH group have mosins they can easily hold off the the PE blob for the damn snipers to pick em off.
And do I mention that the Mosin and PTRD rifles give the squad quite a well surplus of inf and vehicle kills and vetted TH's are the bane of the PE.

Last edited September 12, 2010 at 4:20 PM by Leepriest

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Can someone confirm this... Do THs have a very similar rifle to Gren wehr:elite K98s? They seem to be about this good.

Personally I don't see THs are a problem overall, however their nades do slightly too much damage. Sharpshooters are the problem. Yes the crit chance is too high on the spotter, and the health is slightly too much as well. Zerst already confirmed that they're fiddling with the sniper team already.

sry to get off topic but I got a question for this gent; I dont play a lot of PE, just what does the munitions HT do for troops

Quotesry to get off topic but I got a question for this gent; I dont play a lot of PE, just what does the munitions HT do for troops

you can reinforce your squads nearby and it lowers the cool-down for abilities (grenades,...)

Paciat:
"If you want Tank hunter rifles to be nerfed than Grenadier rifles should be nerfed as well."

No.  If you read, I don't think the tank hunters are supposed to be frontline troops like grenadiers.  Their main purpose is supposed to be fending off vehicles, not infantry.

Last edited September 12, 2010 at 6:21 PM by Chancellor

Chancellor wrote:
Paciat:
"If you want Tank hunter rifles to be nerfed than Grenadier rifles should be nerfed as well."

No.  If you read, I don't think the tank hunters are supposed to be frontline troops like grenadiers.  Their main purpose is supposed to be fending off vehicles, not infantry.

So is the main purpose of PE tankbusters and Shreck Grens/Stormtroopers. But they do kill infantry allmost as well as Grens/Storms without shrecks.

And they tend to cost obesely more then the Tank Hunters...
-Tank buster 360mp
-Schreck Grens 300mp+75muni                or 280mp for TH
-Panzergrenadiers 255+75 muni 

and the TH have their AT rifles+ AT grenades+ AT mines for 280mp without any researches to use them (expect for the initial upgrade)

Yeah for me they should be only an AT solution.

Dude, I had the 3 ostwind and 4 StuG, and again I lost most of the tanks. Hunters have increased damage and rate of fire ... And then you say to me that Ef is going on balance, and not on realism, cmone!!!! And they were devided in 5 groups(TH). All 3 ostwind are attacking together. and that they destroy the tiger, which has the armor of 100 mm, well, I can not believe ...While panzersrek and panzerfaust, almost 40% always miss the tanks. Cmone!!!

@DucaFBF
Please post your replay.

DucaFBF wrote:
Dude, I had the 3 ostwind and 4 StuG, and again I lost most of the tanks. Hunters have increased damage and rate of fire ... And then you say to me that Ef is going on balance, and not on realism, cmone!!!! And they were devided in 5 groups(TH). All 3 ostwind are attacking together. and that they destroy the tiger, which has the armor of 100 mm, well, I can not believe ...While panzersrek and panzerfaust, almost 40% always miss the tanks. Cmone!!!

A PTRD does 1/3 of a bazooka dmg and has 15 times lower accuracy vs infantry. It has better long and medium accuracy though but still PTRD is the worst infantry AT weapon ingame.
3 gren and 3 PE rifles still do more dmg (45 and 36) than 3 mosins (30). Their cheaper but inferior to german squads.

Why would you send lightly armored vechicles like Ostwinds to counter TH in the first place? Tank hunters are a counter to all light vechicles up to a PzIV with no skirts. And 3 vs 5? You had a 1.66 to 1 disadvantage.
Knight Cross Holders is what you needed.

Whats with "they destroyed my Tiger"? If they are Tank Hunters, they should be able to hunt down tanks.

DucaFBF wrote:
Dude, I had the 3 ostwind and 4 StuG, and again I lost most of the tanks. Hunters have increased damage and rate of fire ... And then you say to me that Ef is going on balance, and not on realism, cmone!!!! And they were devided in 5 groups(TH). All 3 ostwind are attacking together. and that they destroy the tiger, which has the armor of 100 mm, well, I can not believe ...While panzersrek and panzerfaust, almost 40% always miss the tanks. Cmone!!!

Replay or it didn't happen. This goes contrary to practically all the games I've seen, tested.

Also, golden rule is....when talking about balance, never mention things like 'the tiger, which has the armor of 100 mm'. Cause what that tell me is that you expect to send in a tiger on its own to clean up house as 'historically' the tiger could not be penetrated by an AT rifle. These facts are largely irrelevant.

From ModDB:

DucaFBF wrote:
Dude, I had the 3 ostvind and 4 StuG, and again I lost most of the tanks. Hunters have increased damage and rate of fire ... And then you say to me that Ef is going on balance, and not on realism, cmone!!!!! And don't spam me with shit like, I dont now how to play.... etc .

After:

blackbishop wrote:
Ok I'll spam you with other facts. Are you sure that you were attacking just Tank Hunters? Sorry but your statements doesn't make sense, unless they were at high vet, nervertheless you got 3 ostwinds, you send them one by one?... how many TH were you facing?

You can register to EF forum and upload the replay to help countribute the balance, but as they said, replay or didn't happen; otherwise you are just shouting at the wind.

Then:

DucaFBF wrote:
Yes, I'm sure. And they were devided in 5 groups. All 3 ostwind are attacking together.... Ok, I replay on forum....

I knew it that TH would chew a panzer IV without skirts, let alone a weaker version such as ostwind or wirbel. But as I consider myself not an expert I wanted to give him a chance and tried to see if the unit really did that. But the evidence posted here shows there's not much left to defend your point @DucaFBF unless you upload the replay.

Small detail. If Tiger died so quick to tank hunters,
I bet you were not paying attention and they used
AT grenades on you? ;)

Tigers are actually penetrated moderately often by PTRDs but it does next to no damage. It is insanely easy to kite THs with Tigers too, so clearly L2P.

Besides the tank hunter's rifles, I'd also like to know whether their free AT grenades trace vehicles.  I've had a few times where I readily saw the throwing animation and started backing up right away, but the grenades still hit the already kiting vehicle.

They should do, like PE AT nades do now as well