Schwimmwagen

Watched a lot of the replays, from what I can tell Soviets have no way to counter the Schwinmwagen start. Even the command squad cant deal with it if there are a couple of pios repairing it. I saw a Schwimwagen take out the Soviet AT gun.

If you have the right amount of pioneers, anything can seem impossible to kill. That's why in tank battles I always get the pioneers first ;D

And for the AT gun, that's what dose things are made for. Flanking enemy emplacements and scouting.

try killing the pio's first or just capping the whole map.

The command squads arty works well if you have it. Repair this *****! :P

Sonders wrote:
I saw a Schwimwagen take out the Soviet AT gun.

Its an anti-tank gun, not an anti-shimm gun. ;D
Bofors is an anti light vechicle gun. So is the PTRD rifle.

try killing the pio's first or just capping the whole map.
That's easier said than done.

I'm talking about the first 10 minutes of the game which are critical. You loose map control early and your fuel that means he tects up faster than you which means you loose more map control. The fuel cost in the tank hall are so huge now whats you alternative AT? Tank hunters or the Soviet AT gun. All wehr or PE has to do is de-crew the thing and as far as there concerned its dead. The Soviet AT gun needs something. Cloak, more health or speed, something.

Sonders wrote:
Tank hunters or the Soviet AT gun. All wehr or PE has to do is de-crew the thing and as far as there concerned its dead. The Soviet AT gun needs something. Cloak, more health or speed, something.

Why would you get an AT gun upgrade if Germans spam Shimms? Its like calling a KingTiger to hunt down an M-10.

When Shimms (or bikes) are repaired shoot down pios (unless their vet 2 allready - battlefield repair) and throw nades at immobile shimms.

Why would you get an AT gun upgrade if Germans spam Shimms? Its like calling a KingTiger to hunt down an M-10.
????HUH????

I didnt say anything about an AT gun upgreade. I was saying the Swimm start can sap your fuel early leaving you with little AT later. Playing Wehr if you are hurting for fuel you can get a pak. USA the 57.

I just watch a game. Guy built two Soviet AT guns cause he was hurting for fuel and needed AT to counter a T1/T4 Ostwind strat. Both AT guns where de-crewed in no time. Tank hunters are ok against pumas but not Ostwinds.

Tank hunters are only 30 fuel in for your schwimm/bike hard counter.

Go:
Ingy - CS - Barracks (3X conscript) - Support barracks - upgrade - tank hunters

Or if he's really spamming hard, only get 2X conscripts so you can immediately build about 3 TH squads.

Spend your early munis on mines as well, he's likely to hit them.

BTW the first 10 minutes is a long time. Brits can easily get a tank out in that time, as can PE sometimes.

I wouldn't spend my early muni on mines, its not worth it. What happens if a little pioneer squad steped on it, sure he will be forced to retreat but its not worth it. Wait till he gets tanks, mines are very useful when they come.

An early mine can instantly win you the game. Don't listen to Seeme, if he's spamming light vehicles spam mines back.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
An early mine can instantly win you the game. Don't listen to Seeme, if he's spamming light vehicles spam mines back.

True.
Thats why I allways choose Scorhed Earth when plaing PE.
PE starts with 50 muni. Id rather place 3 flame mines than have 1 G43 upgrade.

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Sonders wrote:
Guy built two Soviet AT guns cause he was hurting for fuel and needed AT to counter a T1/T4 Ostwind strat. Both AT guns where de-crewed in no time. Tank hunters are ok against pumas but not Ostwinds.

Youre talking about Tier 4. You need 220 Fuel to get an Ostwind. You need 60Fuel to get both ZiS-2 and PTRD.
Youre saing that someone got an AT gun becouse of mid-late game Ostwinds but couldnt even defeat a Shimm spam? :D

Last edited August 19, 2010 at 11:18 AM by Paciat

Seeme wrote:
I wouldn't spend my early muni on mines, its not worth it. What happens if a little pioneer squad stepped on it, sure he will be forced to retreat but its not worth it. Wait till he gets tanks, mines are very useful when they come.

You should use mines about 5 min in the game when he has light vehicles and a blob of volks, not when pioneers are capping. Which early game do you mean?

What a pointless distinction, pios and bikes are available at pretty much the same time.

OK so if its super early game no, for me no mines. When they start getting blobs of volks and mgs, yes mines.

They don't have blobs of volks/mgs. They have numerous bikes/schwimms. Have you read the thread at all?

I still think getting mines to stop a 180mp thing is to much. Who spams schiwimms anyway?

Clearly the person this thread was aimed at. Who needs munis as Russians anyway?

This is going no where, am gonna stop posting.

Can you post a replay where you lose to or win with this strat than we can say more point out what USSR could have done to win.

Also: If you can get a 240 manpower advantages for 25 muni you should do so.

Last edited August 19, 2010 at 7:34 PM by SavageWorld

I think is depends on how bad you need muni.

I started this out saying Soviets have no counter to a Schmm start. Its been mentioned that tank hunters are the counter. Well he will have a schwim long before you have tank hunters. Ok 10 minutes is a long time, lets say 5 minutes. The schwim could have stopped several capping attempts in 5 minutes and supported volks and pios in 5 minutes gaining the map control start.

I did see a guy counter the schwim start, but it was because of the map. Kursk I think. It has that high fuel in the top right corner surrounded by houses. He got in the houses and schwim couldn’t do anything about it

if you going to impose all the fuel cost in the tank hall you need to do something to help the survivability of the soviet AT gun.

I know I know it has a long range keep it back, we all know that but remember cloaked storms sneak up, kill the gun then Ostwinds mop up or prop whats supporting the gun.

Was it high or low recourse?

It was one of the tournament games

Nice tournament btw; look like a good turn out

30 fuel in is incredibly fast. You can attain this using the build order I mentioned earlier. Your TH will come out at the time when the Wehr player has only 3/4 T1 units.

As soon as he gets those schwimms out they are sunk costs and they WILL be countered by midgame. His very brief early advantage is completely countered as soon as a TH hits the field and you will wipe out most of his units and have an immense midgame advantage.

I don't even need to see the tourney replay. If he didn't get THs against bikespam then he went the wrong tech.

Last edited August 20, 2010 at 4:12 AM by GodlikeDennis

Dude seriously...beaten by swim spam?  ...really?    :o

You don't even need tank hunters / mines to deal with them...those are for the heavier stuff like pumas.  Micro your conscripts, get your men into cover, and fight them from green.  That's the bottom line.  Shoot the pios.  No, its not harder than it looks.  And you should be outcapping him. 

There's no magical strategy or build out there to make up for horsesh1t micro.

Schwimmwagen type 128 - what the hell do you use it for??

Schwimmwagen type 166 - Looks like some fancy joyride in an amusement park ;D

There was no "Schwimspam" in any of the Tournement games; believe me, I watched every single one ;)

There were two games where 2 Schwims were built, both times were by partyduler. The one where he beat Rizz, I know for certain the second Schwim was only built as a replacement after the first died.

The second time when he beat Budwise, I don't remember if both were on the field at the same time, but he was able to go T1-T4 with only Storm support. I do remember Bud lost almost entirely because he got several Lend-Lease Shermans and they failed spectacularly against a Panther.

Dude, dude, lol. Did i say anything about Schim spam??? ONE Schim, that's it. that's what im talking about. you should read before you post. everyone loves the word "spam" don't they. Or spam the word spam.

Mines in the first 5 minutes? Ok, i got to remember to lay a bunch of mines in the first 5 minutes, thanks.

micro and use cover. thanks. that's helps. you ever heard of the jeep push?

Partyduler used the schim start to get early map so he could go T1/T4 and it worked because Soviets have no early counter. Lacking fuel Bud went for two AT guns, both where de-crewed fast, right in front of his main.

So all I'm saying is if you loose early fuel you need a AT gun to keep you in the game. And what about PE? a better AT gun would balance that also.

Sonders wrote:
Dude, dude, lol. Did i say anything about Schim spam??? ONE Schim, that's it.

You got beaten by 1 Schim and some pios?  :) :D ;D ::) :-[ :P
You should fear PE scout car then. It has better armor, more HP and +20% of shimms/motorbikes dmg.

Last edited August 21, 2010 at 11:06 AM by Paciat

LOL, i give up. maybe there is a languages translation problem here

SO godlikedennis was saying get lots of mines and do all these pancy stuff for only 1? I knew spamming those things where useless. I mean I only use bikes when theirs a ing or a beaten up squad of constipts.

Actually it sounded like it must have been schwimm spam to warrant this topic. One schwimm is nothing to post home about.

Sonders wrote:
Dude, dude, lol. Did i say anything about Schim spam??? ONE Schim, that's it. that's what im talking about. you should read before you post. everyone loves the word "spam" don't they. Or spam the word spam.

Mines in the first 5 minutes? Ok, i got to remember to lay a bunch of mines in the first 5 minutes, thanks.

micro and use cover. thanks. that's helps. you ever heard of the jeep push?

Partyduler used the schim start to get early map so he could go T1/T4 and it worked because Soviets have no early counter. Lacking fuel Bud went for two AT guns, both where de-crewed fast, right in front of his main.

So all I'm saying is if you loose early fuel you need a AT gun to keep you in the game. And what about PE? a better AT gun would balance that also.

Clearly Bud didn't support those AT guns if they were killed by a single schwimm.

If you won't take any of the advice then fuck off. Everything said here still counts. Mines, cover usage, good teching choice are all easy counters to the humble schwimm.