Sharpshooter Team 1:23

I think the Sharpshooter team shoot to fast and get vet to fast.
These problems are ofcause connected.
I think they should shot 15% slower.

They should'nt , they are fine as they are now

I actually think those stats are fine. In my opinion, they have too much health. They are quite difficult to kill without "gib" weapons - those that are intant kill to a man. Pretty much only tanks, artillery and snipers are effective at killing them as they seem to have mountains of health and smoke cover only adds to this survivability.

During the tourney I had a MP44 stormie squad ambush a sharpshooter from point blank and he got away, and even though Sandland was quick on the retreat, they still should have died. In fact, throughout the tourney I had to counter sharpshooter teams with panthers or tigers.

EDIT: On 2nd thought it may not have been against Sandland. It may have been my game against Sztefenfu, the guy who won.

EDIT 2: No it was against Sandland.

Last edited August 13, 2010 at 5:47 AM by GodlikeDennis

What about the Vet?
I think they get vet 2 after they have killed 8 PGs isn't that a little to fast?

Vet requirements are identical to a US sniper. They are more survivable in terms of health vs small arms...because they're always visible really unlike normal sniper which you never know where they are...it makes them alot more vulnerable...especially to Puma/Scout car

As WH all you really need is a sniper until you get that puma. you'll always get the countersnipe vs a soviet sniper forcing a long 120mp replacement every time

Saying that, we've made some adjustments to lower their survivability a bit....next patch though...

Zerstörer wrote:
Vet requirements are identical to a US sniper. They are more survivable in terms of health vs small arms...because they're always visible really unlike normal sniper which you never know where they are...it makes them a lot more vulnerable...especially to Puma/Scout car

As WH all you really need is a sniper until you get that puma. you'll always get the countersnipe vs a soviet sniper forcing a long 120mp replacement every time

Saying that, we've made some adjustments to lower their survivability a bit....next patch though...

Good I think a small nerf is all that is needed.

I think there's a very large advantage in the Sharpshooter team in that from the minute it becomes available its the "best version" you can field. So, that it doesn't have an Armoury upgrade.

There isn't a reason you wouldn't want to build one at that point, whereas with Mortars, ATGs, Infantry, Tanks...there's always the decision to hold off on mass-producing them so you can upgrade to their superior versions.

There's a reason sharpshooters were used in every single game I played in the tourney.

Yeah, only a small survivability nerf is required and perhaps not getting vet off their arty strike, if that's possible.

After watching all the Tourny replays, the only apparent counter to Sharpshooters is a Wehrmacht Sniper. Direct assaults are dangerous as hell, because the Spotter loves gunning down Volks/Grens one by one.

Bikes and Mines also fail because Sharpshooters are tough enough to take the hits, while a Command Squad takes care of the Bike.

I'd say remove the high critical hit chance from the Spotter, perhaps increasing his accuracy in exchange. Then and/or lower their health.

It still doesn't fix the attractiveness of Snipers by nature of them not needing an upgrade before you purchase them, however. I think they'll always be one of the most popular Soviet units for that reason.

where are these touney replays?

Edit: eh found them on gamereplays.org didn't know as there isn't a straightforward link.

Last edited August 16, 2010 at 9:20 AM by Sgt_Tenor

Mabey they should be an upgrade in the amoury?

    Like before the upgrade, they fired less, couldnt get the arty at vet 2(or 3, forgot) and dosesnt have a spotter.

    Atfer the upgrade they are normal like they are now.

I think something like that needs to happen. They're too good out of the box atm. They also scale well, so they're good all game.

While they are pesky especially when units early in the game are expensive to replace, they are beatable (though tough). I never have much problem moving 2-3 squads of volks with mp40s to where i think they are and gunning them down.

Resource imbalance there much? Any good player will run away anyway.

At 120 mp to reinforce the sharp shooters are fine. Maybe a slight health nerf but that it. Any more and the Soviets are becoming over nerfed. They will just be a punching bag for Wehr.

I think still think we should do my idea...

Seeme wrote:
I think still think we should do my idea...

Kinda like a Sniper School upgrade? Its a good idea, but i would suggest that Health gets nerfed and doesn't increase, just a better spotter, ROF, and maybe access to the Arty ability

So, let me see if I'm getting this right...
A sniper that doesn't move cloaked and can always be countersnipped by a WH sniper without fear...or an AT halfrack with focused fire...is somehow better than a US sniper and OP...right...

To adjust him, you're suggesting he starts as a single sharpshooter that doesn't cloak. At what price would you even consider buying this guy? 150mp? Being that he's the easiest bate ever to kill?- Cheap because he's so poor would mean 2 things...you either spam the crap out of it ending up with groups of 4-5 protecting each other...so why bother with the upgrade? Or...you don't bother building one until you make the upgrade research.
Global arty upgrade would bring us back to v1.00...spam arty tastic

Well you gotta do something, those things fire way to fast and has a lot of Health. They also have smoke when things get hot, and a massive arty strike. Its a 2 man army. So am sorry, I have to disagree with you Zerstorer.

I disagree with you as well Zerst.

You can't deny that in the tourney the sharpshooter was an extremely popular unit. Clearly he's very effective.

Zerstörer wrote:
...
Global arty upgrade would bring us back to v1.00...spam arty tastic

A global upgrade wouldn't mean that at all. Upon getting the research, all snipers on the field gain access to the arty but it's still on the same global cooldown.

I don't know if that's the way to go though. I think a small health nerf is in order and we'll see how it works out from there.

I really learned the true power of the Soviet sniper when I say Godlikedennis's game. He had lots of chances to kill it but it always got away. In fact once he had a MP44 squad right on the sniper and started firing at it. The sniper got away with still half health. He was quick on the retreat but that should of killed him. If you haven't already, you should see his replay.

That actually occurred twice in that same game.

How much does the sharpshooter have?
I could find gun stats on corsix studio but I cant find speed/armor type/cost stats.
Can anyone post a pic where to find these? Pretty please.

Posting a screenshot...too much work :P

Sniper has 75 health, Spotter has 50. They're both Airborne armour, which means they've got a 75% chance to be Sniped while moving whereas most Snipers have 50%.

You can find that stuff in the "ebps" folders.

While i'm in the balance forum, my friend has problems with soviet sharpshooters taking out his PE grenadiers. Using them with tank hunters was a pretty devastating combo.
i might try a few maps and use them more, because i hardly ever get sharpshooters, imho for 360 i could get a t34 if i have the fuel and the right tier.

But i think the Russians are almost done balancewise it's come a long ways from the old conscript spam, ingenery spam, Tank hunters spam. with the hidden munitions costs (btw i think this should be highlighted more clearly in changelog) fighting the soviets is better.

I would raise a couple of other issues but not in this thread so. goodluck modders and em how is the ostheer coming?

If I were to take a guess, I would say the Ostheer is in a working state but has many of the doctrine abilities yet to be put in and lacks polish/balance. This is a complete guess though.

So the team has airborne armour? That would make sense why they're so hard to kill on the move then. Change it to soldier possibly? Or just change it to infantry and give them more health. This would change the balance between enemy snipers though and I'm not sure how that would work out.

I think they just need a health nurf. visible or not, if they are rushed by any infantry they should die. they are snipers, rush=death.

Kolaris wrote:
They're both Airborne armour, which means they've got a 75% chance to be Sniped while moving whereas most Snipers have 50%.

Oh, and this is wrong now, is it not? The sniper moving accuracy was changed in the last patch so the Soviet sniper team is the only one to have the chance to miss while being sniped (at 25%).

Last edited August 23, 2010 at 12:55 PM by GodlikeDennis

Kolaris wrote:
Posting a screenshot...too much work :P

Sniper has 75 health, Spotter has 50. They're both Airborne armour, which means they've got a 75% chance to be Sniped while moving whereas most Snipers have 50%.

You can find that stuff in the "ebps" folders.

Well, due to the Airborne Armour they also take 25% less damage from small arms fire.
Basically the sniper squad got ~ 150 health when fighting it with other infantry. Quite a lot, I'd say.
Nerf their health or change the armourtype and they should be fine.

kakatrot wrote:
I think they just need a health nurf. visible or not, if they are rushed by any infantry they should die. they are snipers, rush=death.

Unless you retreat.
I like the idea that a moving sharpshooter team that cant cloak has a 25% of not being sniped. Waiting in ambush to countersnipe is allmost impossible. What needs to be changed is the sharpshooter recived accuracy while retreating.
I think all Soviet infantry could get a retreat bonus nerf but sharpshooters need it bad.
Heres a topic about it.

Your saying it should be better?

That's not what he said at all. Reread the post, particularly this part:

Paciat wrote:
I think all Soviet infantry could get a retreat bonus nerf but sharpshooters need it bad.

Oh, sorry mate ;D

Yeah i'm going to agree, a small nerf in health or armour type is needed.  Right now i'm seeing way too many cases of snipers escaping from what should be an instant death situation.  Maybe changing the armour type to something a little less powerful (out of curiosity what's the armour type for regular snipers, is it just normal?)or altering the retreat modifier slightly.

If you look at the stats for the 1v1 tournament sharpshooter teams are the most popular unit from the support barracks.  Although i'm aware that's not a good measure of how OP or UP a unit is, it still gives pause for thought. 

Wehr/US snipers have their own armour type. Against snipers it is now identical to infantry armour, since the moving accuracy modifier was removed. It is also identical to infantry armour against bikes/jeeps. Against most other weapons it has 0.75 received accuracy.

Sneaky Snipers ;)

I take back what i said earlyer. i dint think sharpshooters need any kind of a health nerf. the more I play with them I realized there not that difficult to beat. Wehr sniper and the schim or bike beats them. PEs inf HT or armor car really beats them. i just saw a armored car take out a sharpshooter team in a single burst. If the guy goes for early sharpshooters then that will delay his tank hunters. Soviets don't really have any good early inf. The command squad is it and they arnt what they use to be. Volks will be up-gunned long before the command squad and up-gunned Volks beat the non up-gunned command squad hands down.

A mg42 really hurts the sharpshooters also. If you keep retreating and reinforcing those guys its going to drain your man power big time. if you ignor them then yes they are going to rack up some kills. BTW; Wehr HT will kill them also or force them to retreat.

The sharpshooters easily kill the Mgs. They can shoot father then there range.

Seeme wrote:
The sharpshooters easily kill the Mgs. They can shoot father then there range.

Not if the mg is focused fire on the sniper. I always keep volks close to the mg anyway so it dont get flanked. If the mg is trained on your sharpshooters you will have to retreat. they dont fire that fast.

Sonders wrote:

Seeme wrote:
The sharpshooters easily kill the Mgs. They can shoot father then there range.

Not if the mg is focused fire on the sniper. I always keep volks close to the mg anyway so it dont get flanked. If the mg is trained on your sharpshooters you will have to retreat. they dont fire that fast.

The sharpshooter are counter to weapon teams. You cannot change this. If he has some support for his/her mg, you also should have, if not you need to retreat asap after the first/second shot depending where the support squad is located. Before the mg got the range to fire at your sniper, he already killed two of the crew members.

Sonders wrote:
I take back what i said earlyer. i dint think sharpshooters need any kind of a health nerf. the more I play with them I realized there not that difficult to beat. Wehr sniper and the schim or bike beats them. PEs inf HT or armor car really beats them. i just saw a armored car take out a sharpshooter team in a single burst. If the guy goes for early sharpshooters then that will delay his tank hunters. Soviets don't really have any good early inf. The command squad is it and they arnt what they use to be. Volks will be up-gunned long before the command squad and up-gunned Volks beat the non up-gunned command squad hands down.

A mg42 really hurts the sharpshooters also. If you keep retreating and reinforcing those guys its going to drain your man power big time. if you ignor them then yes they are going to rack up some kills. BTW; Wehr HT will kill them also or force them to retreat.

As I've said before these guys are alot more vulnerable to many things since they cannot hide unlike the normal sniper.That is the reason for their higher resilience to normal small arms fire. A puma/scout car stands a very good chance of killing a team in 1 burst and they don't even need to run into them to be able to see them. They'll receive a small adjustment/nerf and see where we go from there

Got it.

Good, that's the ideal response at this time.

i will still keep using them because they are pretty good at shooting into big cobats from behind
but is it just me or cant snipers go to vet 3??
i had a team with like 24 kills and it didnt get vet 3.... :-\

Snipers can get vet 3. They're annoying.