Recrewing weapons and starting off as Soviet

First and most simply, when you start off as the other factions you start with a unit in play, ie pioneers, engineers, infantry, etc.  But the Soviets start with nothing, they should start with a basic unit (engineer).

Second and more irritating than the first is that soviets can't recrew weapons.  Ie, a AT gun that has had it's crew killed cannot be re manned by other units.

Same goes for being able to grab an enemy heavy mg, mortar, AT Gun, etc.

Haven't had a chance to crew a flak88 but that probably doesn't work either. pretty much seems like all soviet infantry cannot recrew any weapons.

Same also goes for carried upgrades such as light machine guns, bazooka's etc

Reinforcemnt of at crew is also too expensive 96 per unit (pak38 is only 30), and they reinforce too fast.

No necessarilly a bug but It would be nice if upgrades were retroactive for units.  if not the 85mm for the t34, how about upgrade options for infantry.

Starting units and recrewing is two hard-coded bugs that can't be fixed without relics help. You should read the FAQ: http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=764.0

But as far as I know, soviets can pick up LMGs and bazookas ???

The other things someone else can reply to. ;)

nurgle wrote:
First and most simply, when you start off as the other factions you start with a unit in play, ie pioneers, engineers, infantry, etc.  But the Soviets start with nothing, they should start with a basic unit (engineer).

No, they shouldnt.

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Second and more irritating than the first is that soviets can't recrew weapons.  Ie, a AT gun that has had it's crew killed cannot be re manned by other units.

Same goes for being able to grab an enemy heavy mg, mortar, AT Gun, etc.

Haven't had a chance to crew a flak88 but that probably doesn't work either. pretty much seems like all soviet infantry cannot recrew any weapons.

Many WWII Soviet constripts didnt know how a toilet works. Funny, but not a joke.

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Same also goes for carried upgrades such as light machine guns, bazooka's etc

Not true.
Strelky that were allready upgraded with PPSH cant pick up heavy weapons just like Rangers with Thompsons but most infantry can.

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Reinforcemnt of at crew is also too expensive 96 per unit (pak38 is only 30), and they reinforce too fast.

Update youre mod to 1.23.

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No necessarilly a bug but It would be nice if upgrades were retroactive for units.  if not the 85mm for the t34, how about upgrade options for infantry.

There are upgrades for all non doctrinal infantry that you can field.

Last edited August 11, 2010 at 11:48 PM by Paciat

nurgle wrote:
First and most simply, when you start off as the other factions you start with a unit in play, ie pioneers, engineers, infantry, etc.  But the Soviets start with nothing, they should start with a basic unit (engineer).

No it is part of what makes them unique.

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Second and more irritating than the first is that soviets can't recrew weapons.  Ie, a AT gun that has had it's crew killed cannot be re manned by other units.

Same goes for being able to grab an enemy heavy mg, mortar, AT Gun, etc.

Haven't had a chance to crew a flak88 but that probably doesn't work either. pretty much seems like all soviet infantry cannot recrew any weapons.

This is a bug that cannot be fixed and has been talked about countless times by people much like yourself that don't do their research before posting.

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Same also goes for carried upgrades such as light machine guns, bazooka's etc

Yes they can pick them up I had a strelky squad with schrecks earlier today.

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Reinforcemnt of at crew is also too expensive 96 per unit (pak38 is only 30), and they reinforce too fast.

Update.

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No necessarilly a bug but It would be nice if upgrades were retroactive for units.  if not the 85mm for the t34, how about upgrade options for infantry.

Again it is what sets them apart. If both the no start unit and non-retroactive upgrades elements were changed the Soviets would be a slightly different America.

I agree with the others before me. Just because Soviets don't fit into your idea of what they should be doesn't mean they're wrong.

Sorry about not reading the FAQ thoroughly.  I see the recrewing weapons thing was there.  I also saw the statement that the soviets were designed around that limitation by having increased weapon crew sizes.

The problem I have with that is that the soviets don't have a halftrack, or mobile reinforcement point.  Furthermore having increased crew sizes really hurts the pop cap.  So if it's designed around it then I would expect an AT gun with a pop count of 5 to be far more effective than one with 3.  since you could field 5 pak38s for 3 of the soviets.  And 5 pak38s are far more potent.  Same goes for mortar crews.

Perhaps increase the fire rate, damage or combination of both.

Well Nurgle if you at least played a single FULLY UPDATED game, you will find that the ZiS-2 crews (as well as the other support weapon, Mortars) now comprise 3 men and get increased sizes through upgrades and veterancy, the guide is old so don't rely on it, hopefully we will be able to get an updated one.

You should try out the Soviets on easy computers especially with new patches to see the changes first hand. I always do it to get use to the new changes

A mobile reinforcement point would be extremely OP in the Soviet faction, who rely on a large swarm of infantry. Try building an outpost, the equivalent of other factions' observation points, and you will find you can reinforce from them while also increasing your income. They're also quite powerful defensive structures in of themselves.

Also, the Soviet AT guns are very good. They have very long range and good damage and penetration on the German tanks. Remember that Paks only have to face allied tanks which generally have lesser armour than the German ones.

First off I have played the soviets against hard and expert cpu opponents for about 12 annihilation skirmishes.  I play a map as soviet then I play the same one as Wehrmacht against soviet on hard or expert.  I am very familiar with all of the units and structures.

Now let me go on record as saying I generally prefer Wehrmacht.  Because of their terrific units.  Since they have halftracks that have awesome Stukka Upgrades (for 4 pop).  They also have good snipers, stealthed AT, Heavy MG, Good tanks.  And the veterancy upgrade,  which makes recrewing elite weapons a cinch.  as a turtle player the Wehrmacht is very powerful in the late game.

I like playing the Soviets for the variety.  I like the reinforcement point OP.  but for 10 more points wehrmacht can make a building into a unit generator also (granted without resource bonus).

Soviets have great tanks, I really like the t90 for 3 pop.  IS-2 for 11 seems like a better deal than the Pershing. t34 historically was far superior to the Sherman but not so in the game.  Sniper teams are inferior to other factions.  Elite Sniper for 750 is too expensive (don't know if that was fixed in 1.23).

I find that it's far easier to beat a Soviet CPU player.  I have found that the zis-2 (at least in v1.22) is too weak against tanks.  Yes it works but You need many teams and once you count up teams 5 teams v 3. then the soviet at gun is over poped for it's power.

I don't really get most of what you said to be honest. It seems like the pop cap is the way you see balance...

The sniper team is actually superior to the other factions. While they can't stealth, they have a lot of health, less of a chance of instantly losing the whole unit (2 men) and are inherently better against axis due to low squad sizes. They can also call in rather OP arty at the moment. The ace is also very good and very difficult for a human to counter without countersniping.

Having lost a Tiger to Soviet AT guns during the tournament I can tell you that they're very effective. I can also tell you that your complaints really don't count for much unfortunately since you only play against the AI and those matches are skewed. You can't base balance off skirmishes.

OK i just played moscow again against Wehrmacht and I must say that the Zis-2 is an effective at weapon.  I tend to be a late game player where I am more held back by pop cap than by resource cost.  I guess Soviets simply do not favor my style of play.

I have really enjoyed having Eastern Front added to my COH.  They certainly add new dimension to the game.  These were just my suggestions, and I welcome them to be freely dismissed.

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Post Merge: [time]1281667284[/time]

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Just updated again and now Zis-2 replacements are 96 again.

Last edited August 13, 2010 at 2:41 AM by nurgle

Recrewing = not possible without relic

No Starting Units = takes little time to produce them

Hurray! Everyone is happy.

Sorry for starting it over again, but guys, is it possible to make trainable reinforcements to the weapons like zis2 or mortar? I mean build a weapon team without a weapon for less price and faster.
I'm asking 'cause I've seen these weaponless crews (when the weapon gets destroyed before the squad is killed) reinforce to full size and take over vacant weapon, similar to the one they used to have.

IJoe wrote:
Sorry for starting it over again, but guys, is it possible to make trainable reinforcements to the weapons like zis2 or mortar? I mean build a weapon team without a weapon for less price and faster.
I'm asking 'cause I've seen these weaponless crews (when the weapon gets destroyed before the squad is killed) reinforce to full size and take over vacant weapon, similar to the one they used to have.

No, Its not.

^ It's a feature in BLITZKRIEG! Mod.

^ Yes, well: Blitzkrieg is a modification for EXISTING factions.

Eastern Front adds a WHOLE NEW FACTION.

Big difference. Same rules don't apply.  :(

Paciat wrote:

IJoe wrote:
Sorry for starting it over again, but guys, is it possible to make trainable reinforcements to the weapons like zis2 or mortar? I mean build a weapon team without a weapon for less price and faster.
I'm asking 'cause I've seen these weaponless crews (when the weapon gets destroyed before the squad is killed) reinforce to full size and take over vacant weapon, similar to the one they used to have.

No, Its not.

This is possible. I did it myself as personal mod for Men of War, which uses fairly similar coding and programming.

Keromalas wrote:

Paciat wrote:

IJoe wrote:
Sorry for starting it over again, but guys, is it possible to make trainable reinforcements to the weapons like zis2 or mortar? I mean build a weapon team without a weapon for less price and faster.
I'm asking 'cause I've seen these weaponless crews (when the weapon gets destroyed before the squad is killed) reinforce to full size and take over vacant weapon, similar to the one they used to have.

No, Its not.

This is possible. I did it myself as personal mod for Men of War, which uses fairly similar coding and programming.

First, CoH and Men of War use different engines, so this is irrelevant. Second, no one stated in what sense that is not possible.
Third, the soviets can recrew now; what reminds me that this thread lost it's value.