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Removing limits on call in units

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#43223

Removing limits on call in units

I was playing with airborne the other day , and i was flabbergasted at the message "Actions cannot be performed", when i tried to call in more airborne squads

Why , simply because the AI spams call in units....

What the hell can we do if the AI spams call in units  , the strength of airborne lies in its infantry and anywhere drop able AT guns , it doesnt make any sense if you cant use more than 4 or 5 of these , "It makes the germans really OP"

Devs i suggest that this limit should be removed 
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!

Last edited August 12, 2010 at 8:47 AM by AbhMkh

#43247

Re: Removing limits on call in units(wow its rhyming!!)

Well i had the same problem but on the German side! I played PE with Luftwaffe tactics and i could not get more than 3 squads of Fallschirmjaegers...that was really annoying. And the other day ive played PE Tank Destroyers and only 3 Hetzers out of 4 could be called. Those limits are really a bad idea...youre right they should be removed!
"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt..."
#43272

Re: Removing limits on call in units(wow its rhyming!!)

You shouldn't need that many airborne/AT guns anyway. They are there to support your normal riflemen in an AT role. Giant blobs of airborne aren't a skillful way to play the game.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#43287

Re: Removing limits on call in units(wow its rhyming!!)

GodlikeDennis wrote:
You shouldn't need that many airborne/AT guns anyway. They are there to support your normal riflemen in an AT role. Giant blobs of airborne aren't a skillful way to play the game.



Its "AIRBORNE" , with this stupid restriction on the call in units , I'm not able to use its mobile attack tactics cause i'm severely limited with the airborne squads and guns , if i had to use riflemen or tanks the i would choose infantry or armor doctrine rather than airborne , I love its assault tactics , you can cut down jerry infantry and blast the hell out of armor with those airborne AT guns. But now I keep getting the stupid message "actions cannot be performed"
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43292

Re: Removing limits on call in units

the limits on call-in units are there for a reason: to prevent the AI of spamming them. if the limits are removed the AI will spam them again which would be terrible. so right now the limits seem to be necessary for all who want to play balanced games vs AI.
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P
#43305

Re: Removing limits on call in units

El wrote:
the limits on call-in units are there for a reason: to prevent the AI of spamming them. if the limits are removed the AI will spam them again which would be terrible. so right now the limits seem to be necessary for all who want to play balanced games vs AI.


Yes...If someone wants spamming with units and play against another spam, he must play at Original CoH  ;D
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#43307

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Gentlemen you are not understanding the oint , why the hell would any one choose airborne if he cant get enough units to fulfill the purpose of "AIRBORNE" , I'd be better off choosing infantry or armor
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43308

Re: Removing limits on call in units

I'm not sure you understand our point. The doctrines are not meant to completely define how you play but rather give you some neat support abilities. You don't see every armour player only building tanks or every infantry not building a single vehicle. Why do you want more airborne anyway? Just a couple of squads decimate most vehicles and they are much worse against infantry than rifles. It makes more sense to use combined arms rather than a giant blob of airborne.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#43315

Re: Removing limits on call in units

GodlikeDennis wrote:
[...]The doctrines are not meant to completely define how you play but rather give you some neat support abilities. You don't see every armour player only building tanks or every infantry not building a single vehicle.[...]
+1

and btw the doctrines have more to offer than just call-ins (e.g. airborne: supply drops, recon/strafing/bombing runs)
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P

Last edited August 12, 2010 at 4:09 PM by El Tigre

#43318

Re: Removing limits on call in units

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1557.0

Have a look at it , before say anything further

The american "company commander"

abilities , affect your predefined abilities , for eg faster infantry dep , faster tank dep , on field repairs , rangers etc , faster construction of defenses , the british abilities and axis abilities are more support oriented


So in the Americans , the "Company Commander" you choose affects your strategy of play , hence when a person uses airborne , he should focus less on deploying armor and more on infantry support like mg's , snipers , mortars etc


Get it now??
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43320

Re: Removing limits on call in units

I agree that the hardcaps should be removed and put as it was in vCoH.
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#43327

Re: Removing limits on call in units

AbhMkh wrote:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1557.0

Have a look at it , before say anything further

The american "company commander"

abilities , affect your predefined abilities , for eg faster infantry dep , faster tank dep , on field repairs , rangers etc , faster construction of defenses , the british abilities and axis abilities are more support oriented


So in the Americans , the "Company Commander" you choose affects your strategy of play , hence when a person uses airborne , he should focus less on deploying armor and more on infantry support like mg's , snipers , mortars etc


Get it now??


Which has nothing to do with an airborne blob. Do you get it?

Airborne is actually a very good doctrine to rush tanks with because you get excellent AT support in your paras, while rifles + strafe deal with most infantry threats.

And sorry Bud, I disagree. Airborne, rangers and Falls should have a limit of 4. The arty callins should be limited at 3 like normal. AT guns limited at 3-4. Stormtroopers don't really need a limit seeing as you need them as main troops with T3 Blitz and their obscene pop cost limits them enough. It's good that elite infantry blobbing has limits now.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.

Last edited August 12, 2010 at 5:10 PM by GodlikeDennis

#43328

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Why cant you accept your defeat with grace?? ;)
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43329

Re: Removing limits on call in units

I'm defeated? News to me. You haven't put forth a good enough argument at all.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#43330

Re: Removing limits on call in units

My suggestion will be supported by all without arguments :P
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43346

Re: Removing limits on call in units

do you choose the doctrine that fits best into your playing style or the other way around?

we understand that the doctrine influences your game but it's also about the map, the enemies and your personal way of playing, e.g. some airborne players don't like to blob airborne squads ;) but rather use all the weapons/abilities to defeat their enemies with combined arms and a good strategy  ::)

godlikedennis is right about the airborne and tank thing cause you certainly have enough ressources for tanks via the supply drops.

but back to topic: unless there is a way to prevent AI from abusing the call-in units, the limits should remain as they are. not everyone can or wants to play vs. human players via internet.
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P
#43374

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Of course , you have to bring in armor , in the later stages of the game , the doctrine you choose definitely changes your style of play , otherwise why would you choose it??

when a player knows that he/she can deploy infantry/armor units faster by choosing infantry/armor doctrine , then why the hell would he choose the airborne doctrine , airborne is not simply meant for "support" , it defines how you play , that is infiltration tactics
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43394

Re: Removing limits on call in units

No, most players pick airborne because they CBF to kill snipers the hard way...

You shouldn't need any more than 4 airborne for AT anyway. They're rubbish for AI so you may as well get rifles.

As far as I'm concerned, if a teammate drops, I absolutely do not want to be left with a com that just spams one unit.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#43426

Re: Removing limits on call in units

you can play in many different ways with airborne. not just infiltrating. if you choose armor you can deploy vehilces faster but what if you don't have enough fuel? airborne offers additional fuel...
and IMHO airborne is very good for support. sorry to say it, but if you think that you can only use airborne for infilttration, than you should rework your tactics, couse it offers so much more.

and why do you want more than 4 airborne squads/AT guns? that should be enough, unless you want to blob them ;)
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P

Last edited August 13, 2010 at 9:39 AM by El Tigre

#43446

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Units like mg's, mortar, sniper, vehicles,tanks are always needed

In airborne there is no need to use the following units

riflemen

produced AT guns



one must work the tactics accordingly , airborne gives you the capability of handling vehicles early in the game , so "Use it For Infiltration"


Cheers ;)
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43450

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Infiltration has nothing to do with countering vehicles, check your dictionary. Riflemen are an essential component of all US play. Produced AT guns are identical to the airdropped ones but cheaper and can't reinforce anywhere. They can still be built. Admit it, you just want to spam the fuck out of airborne and blob up because that's easy to you.

On an additional note, the limit on call-in arty for the factions needs to be raised immediately back to 3. It is unfair to scorched earth and arty doctrine.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#43506

Re: Removing limits on call in units

QuoteOn an additional note, the limit on call-in arty for the factions needs to be raised immediately back to 3. It is unfair to scorched earth and arty doctrine.

which units do you mean? priest and katyusha?
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P
#43507

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Priest and Hummel. They're currently limited to 2 and it should be 3.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#43508

Re: Removing limits on call in units

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Priest and Hummel. They're currently limited to 2 and it should be 3.

Yeah that limit should be definetly removed...
"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt..."
#43604

Re: Removing limits on call in units

I'm kinda wondering, other than the AI stupidly spamming them (which is definitely a good reason to limit them), why not have the limits removed?  Who cares how one person uses them?  If you come up against those blobbers as you say in online mode, use your superior tactics and crush them.

It doesn't make sense to get rid of the ability to have more of them just because some people may overuse/blob them, unless they were overpowered in some way.  But they're fairly weak infantry that use up 6 cap and that can be killed many ways even with a lot of them.
#43640

Re: Removing limits on call in units

QuoteI'm kinda wondering, other than the AI stupidly spamming them (which is definitely a good reason to limit them)

that's why the limits are there

QuoteIt doesn't make sense to get rid of the ability to have more of them just because some people may overuse/blob them, unless they were overpowered in some way.  But they're fairly weak infantry that use up 6 cap and that can be killed many ways even with a lot of them.
to give an example: the tiger is limited to 1 at a time to keep the balance and you are suggesting to remove that as well?! because other players could use their tactics to defeat 4 tigers per player?!  ::) and btw if they are so weak and useless why do you want to have even more of them?
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P
#43658

Re: Removing limits on call in units

There is no need to bring out bloody 5 tigers , just restore the call in units as in vCOH
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43708

Re: Removing limits on call in units

El wrote:
QuoteI'm kinda wondering, other than the AI stupidly spamming them (which is definitely a good reason to limit them)

that's why the limits are there

QuoteIt doesn't make sense to get rid of the ability to have more of them just because some people may overuse/blob them, unless they were overpowered in some way.  But they're fairly weak infantry that use up 6 cap and that can be killed many ways even with a lot of them.
to give an example: the tiger is limited to 1 at a time to keep the balance and you are suggesting to remove that as well?! because other players could use their tactics to defeat 4 tigers per player?!  ::) and btw if they are so weak and useless why do you want to have even more of them?

No kidding, that's why the limits are there?  Like, you mean, like I knew?  And that you even quoted?

I don't think you even read what you quoted.  I said, "overpowered in some way".  Do you see it up there?  Call-in tanks are generally much more powerful than the normal ones you can build, with drastically increased health/armor/power.  As such, THEY SHOULD STAY LIMITED, JUST LIKE THEY ARE IN vCOH.

However, the airborne are not really overpowered.  They are infantry that can competently take on tanks and buildings with a decently expensive upgrade, but are horrible at taking on infantry.  They can be called-in anywhere you can see, but cost a bit more.

They are fairly weak (you know, like most normal infantry is), but certainly not useless, and I never said they were.  I said they were not overpowered.

Stop putting words into my mouth, thank you.


I agree with AbhMkh.  Just restore the call-in units to as in vCOH.
#43709

Re: Removing limits on call in units

AbhMkh wrote:
There is no need to bring out bloody 5 tigers , just restore the call in units as in vCOH
soon after that people would start crying about the AI spamming them. the AI in EF is playing better and more entertaining then in vCoH and that would change  ::) resulting in less games vs. AI and some players leaving EF...

but maybe you can give us a reason why you really want to have more than 4 airborne squads, because i just don't get it since you're not a spammer, right ???


please calm down, ShinseiTom, that wasn't meant to be offensive.
QuoteI don't think you even read what you quoted.
i did ;)

airborne can be dropped and reinforced everywhere (with recon plane), can fire up, have better health than the other american infantry, can be upgraded with an accurate AT weapon, can use satchel charges vs. buildings, can use get heavy weapons (MG and mortar via supply drop, dropped AT guns)...that doesn't sound like a weak unit, more like a quite powerful and versatile unit.

i often play as airborne and i never use more that 2-4 squads of airborne nor do i see my teammates using more than 4.
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P

Last edited August 15, 2010 at 12:20 PM by El Tigre

#43714

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Did I hear the two words " Airborne " and " Weak "???

You know how I love my Airborne, and how I hate those 2 words combined.
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#43716

Re: Removing limits on call in units

what do you think seeme?
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43719

Re: Removing limits on call in units

What do I think? That I should go 1v1 on him and show him how airborne is done.
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#43721

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Yes give him a good one , and i meant about the units?
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43723

Re: Removing limits on call in units

  Oh I think that Airborne just might be the strongest unit in the game. As people said before, it can be dropped anywhere. And if you don't have recon plane, it can be dropped near you guys to give support, dropped behind a bunker or mg nest, etc. Since they have great amour(Airborne amour) they don't die easily when In front of A mg, making the fire up ability useful. So even if there in front of a MG, they can knock it out. Meaning Mgs are almost useless to Wehrmacht if you know how to use airborne.


  Also It can basically be its own force, because airborne has those rifles that are better then most  mobile AT weapons. And if you don't have muni on you, Get a AT gun. You don't even have to retreat cause they reinforce anywhere, making it a great threat. Same goes for the AT gun. And if you need to def a position that you just took with the airborne, call down heavy weapons package and you get a mortar and a mg, but great for the job. You also get free fuel and Muni so that helps pay for a AT Rifle for the airborne.


  And last, no buildings can survive when airborne comes, with its satchel charges and its Pineapple Grenades, it will clear out any building and probably destroy it, meaning if the enemy comes out, he cant re enter again. This goes great up fire up, cause like I said before if theres a MG in the building, run up, throw, run away, Hes dead.


So all in all theirs almost no weakness for the airborne. The only thing that is any threat is the Whirlwind and the Ostwald, And The KCH and MP44 PGs. if you do it right, you can even counter those with the hit and run tactic. So now what do you think of the Airborne?
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#43737

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Aah the airborne is a great unit as you mentioned , with all its capabilities , however the thing being discussed here is "the limits on the call in units"


Airborne can be used most effectively when it is present at the right place at the right time , now with this limit , i cant use it properly , what say ya??
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#43738

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Am sorry I just got mad for some reason.

Lets not go off-topic now.
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#45782

Re: Removing limits on call in units

is it not possible to add an option to the start-up program?
call-in units limits on/off?
#45849

Re: Removing limits on call in units

I'm for keeping the caps, It makes AI games fun and plus I hate seeing games being ruined by spam blobs. Although the priest/hummel limmit should be brought back up to 3.
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[insert signature here]
#45859

Re: Removing limits on call in units

AbhMkh wrote:
What the hell can we do if the AI spams call in units  , the strength of airborne lies in its infantry and anywhere drop able AT guns , it doesnt make any sense if you cant use more than 4 or 5 of these

5 AT guns isnt enough?  :o ::)
How many AT guns do you need?
My Ostheer concept.

Last edited August 30, 2010 at 11:34 PM by Paciat

#45904

Re: Removing limits on call in units


Eh. Actually, I'm for adding MORE limits.
Like 50%-60% max pop for armor. To keep mechanized
armies balanced. But that can be argued.

Actually, my beef is with tanks like Callioppe and Crocodile.
In 1.0 COH, Callioppe had no cap, but could use their 75mm.
People would only make those, since cost no fuel. Spam them like hell. (Imagine the rocket barrage!!!).

Now they've been capped to 2. Fine. How about giving
them their gun back now? :)

Same with Crocodile. It's a regular sherman (no upgrades)
But with a machine gun removed to put in the flamethrower.
How about capping it to 2 (It's a speciality unit), only used
for tank trap removal, really. The Sherman 105mm is a HUGE
improvement over this unit. Maybe give it the Jumbo gun.
(75mm short, with HE rounds). That way, it would be
comparable to 105, sorta. With the flamethower making up
for the extra machine gun?

I'm for capping the StuH42/105 too. Maybe to 3-4 ?
Panthers to 4?
Etc.

I like diversity.

God, Ostwind, Wirblewind ought to be capped too.
Thinking of 20x Ostwind armies rushing the base in
3vs3...

  What are the chances to see that in real life?

(I know it's just a game, meh)

Fireflies... etc.

No caps on 'regular tanks though'. Pz4, StuG, Sherman.
You know, there are many people in the country today who, through no fault of their own, are sane. Some of them were born sane. Some of them became sane later in their lives. It is up to people like you and me who are out of our tiny little minds to try and help these people overcome their sanity
#45905

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Strayker wrote:
GodlikeDennis wrote:
Priest and Hummel. They're currently limited to 2 and it should be 3.

Yeah that limit should be definetly removed...

I agree but I can also wee where the AI or playing against someone using them could get really annoyed. I usually stagger them when firing so I have a continuous barrage into the fog of war or into choke points. Really cheap but no different than any other buildable or doctrinal artillery unit.
"This Goddam forum smells like Volksgrenadiers!"
1st SS Division Leibstandarte SS A. H.
#45914

Re: Removing limits on call in units

I always thought that EF team could fix the US crocodile by giving him the correct vet, and a functional 75mm cannon, its an infantry support tank after all, and I thought that while you upgrade your shermans to 76mm the crocodile should remain with the 75mm one, because is just a IST, hence allowing to use up-gunned shermans and M10 to deal with armor and a crocodile supported by rifleman to take care of infantry and at the same time, be able to counter effectively a sneaky Puma.

But i don't agree that every unit should have a limit.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...

Last edited August 31, 2010 at 5:41 PM by blackbishop

#45927

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Maybe you should have an option, when you want to use the flamer you choose that button meaning the crew operates the flame but not the gun to take out inf. When you deal with Amour you have an button to get the  Gun, meaning you cant use the Flamer but the gun. Same thing with the Rockets, it would pause the reloading time but fire its main gun.
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#45988

Re: Removing limits on call in units

I remember when the croc was so powerful it could dominate a massive enemy army in seconds.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#45992

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Those times have changed...
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#47423

Re: Removing limits on call in units


- Yea, I just don't fear the flamethrower like I used to,
anymore.
- Sigh. I guess he wants all cap removed. Guess we got
to make King Tiger / Tiger / JagPanther call ins with no
cap, eh? :)

I really wonder how he'll feel when 60 Hummel blow up
his base.
You know, there are many people in the country today who, through no fault of their own, are sane. Some of them were born sane. Some of them became sane later in their lives. It is up to people like you and me who are out of our tiny little minds to try and help these people overcome their sanity
#47473

Re: Removing limits on call in units

Loupblanc wrote:

- Yea, I just don't fear the flamethrower like I used to,
anymore.
- Sigh. I guess he wants all cap removed. Guess we got
to make King Tiger / Tiger / JagPanther call ins with no
cap, eh? :)

I really wonder how he'll feel when 60 Hummel blow up
his base.


Lol. Must people just shit themselfs seeing One King Tiger.

I deff. shit myselfs when i'm playing Wehrmacht, and HQ Gets destroyed by Calliopes.
#48078

Re: Removing limits on call in units

(airborne is one hell of a unit for infiltration-support pls remove restrict)
but imagine if 4 allies players in a 4v4 agree that they will all
take infantry doctrine and build 30 rangers eh?
while on the other hand wermacht players could all pick tank doctrine and
call in 10 king tigers and support them with grenadiers making them unbeatable i cant fantasize for more callin spams cause i think you got my point so i agree removing the restictions in some units not all  ;)
in this link you will see what
will happen to the ostheer  :)
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/axis-conquers-philippines-6.jpg
freezing till death in easternfront

Last edited September 23, 2010 at 2:32 PM by nickpol15

#48118

Re: Removing limits on call in units

nickpol15 wrote:
(airborne is one hell of a unit for infiltration-support pls remove restrict)


nickpol15 wrote:
while on the other hand wermacht players could all pick tank doctrine and call in 10 king tigers

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[insert signature here]
#48194

Re: Removing limits on call in units

i am not mad i am just saying my opinion :'(
in this link you will see what
will happen to the ostheer  :)
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/axis-conquers-philippines-6.jpg
freezing till death in easternfront