The changes to the mod 1.21 patch.

i ask for a list of the reward vehicles that may be added in the future. As not all of them were added in this patch.

I'm assuming two conflicting reasons for this.

They will be added with the Ostheer version later on in the future. (up to a year?)

Or they are dropped and the only reward units are what have been included in the new 1.2 patch. (1.21 if you want to be precise).

My views on the mod so far:
I like the reward units, it really does add life to the game, in fact i would have stopped playing CoH years ago if it weren't for Eastern front mods. I find the latest mods the best ones by far.
Also i would say the Soviet teching is just about right.  Maybe a smidgin too slow to get to armour, but only a minute or two behind the Germans.  It’s nice to be able to use the mid-early game units without fear of the soviet armour hounding you too early on, and it’s nice as the soviet player to get better with the earlier units also.


I find the conscripts are used more early game, and the command squad requires careful micromanaging if you want them to vet without dieing too soon. On the odd occasion where I’ve been careless I really did mourn the loss of the command squad, especially one vetted up. However I’ve yet to get them to vet 3. Which is probably just as well.
The tank hunter seem to perform as they should, being effective enough against light armour but no match for the heavies which is how I think it should be.


The God of War ability should be adapted in the future, I find it, odd to have as a last level ability when it’s so unwieldy and unpredictable where the shells land that I only use it as an extra if I’m bored. 
As a solution to this I would suggest one of four options:
1. Change the ability so it in fact offers creeping barrage to arty firebases at same cost.
2. Improve the power of the God of war, so it’s even more powerful but make it cost 6 points or more.
3. Weaken the power and reduce the cost. And narrow the barrage area.
4. Remove it entirely and replace with a new more interesting power. (perhaps a new self-propelled gun arty piece?)

A mention on the special call in mechanics for the tank hunter doctrine.
I find them useless. For their cost being twice than of an ingenery squad, how are they justified?
I could build two ingenery squads to do the repairs of a tank and the other for a different task for that price.
What’s more, they appear after the call-in Sherman. The rather expensive call in Sherman.( I don’t think the cap to 3 is really necessary when they cost more than an IS2) O.o.
As a solution to their ineffectiveness I propose one of  four options:
1. Bring back the mechanics ability to rebuild dead tanks.
2. Give them the ability of the British sappers with the repair ability thing, so they can repair things to a higher standard and toughen them up.
3. Move them lower down the tree, so they can be recruited before the lend-lease Sherman and reduce their cost. (I would suggest 200 at most if they remain unchanged).
4. Remove them and replace with something else. I would leave this to the developers discretion.

That was exactly what I thoguht... the mechanics are nearly useless and costs a lot.

Mad wrote:
2. Give them the ability of the British sappers with the repair ability thing, so they can repair things to a higher standard and toughen them up.

Best idea.

Mad wrote:
3. Move them lower down the tree, so they can be recruited before the lend-lease Sherman and reduce their cost. (I would suggest 200 at most if they remain unchanged).

Will not happen, because most factions have a 3CP Tank and can save one's bacon as Churchill or Hetzer.

Last edited August 1, 2010 at 11:19 PM by GreenApple

Quote1. Bring back the mechanics ability to rebuild dead tanks.

+100
You are absolutely right...it had a meaning to call them. Finally Allies had their way to repair wrecks and when you played with US guy he had a option to have two Pershings...something that wasnt from patch 1.5 or so...in summary the Mechanics as of now are just expensive waste of manpower

To not make is op, it should cost 50 muni or something. LIke to restore the shells and amour that broke off it.

Bergetiger can also cause two Tigers.

QuoteBergetiger can also cause two Tigers.

Yeah, youre absolutely right...therefore i think it will be only fair that Allies can have two Pershings with use of Mechanics. Besides it will make the SU viable ally for US in 2v2 games, maybe like WM+PE. And maybe it could bring more gamers to EF, who knows? Who wouldnt like multiple Pershings? ...I certainly would like to.

Cleartext:
Bergetigers can cause several Tigers. It's no ability it is a bug correct? Well, you would like to see the same bug for the Soviets, so you would support this bug!?

Ehm ... ??? Wrong adjustment

I guess the bug isn't fixable and if anything, in that case they should fix that it is no longer possible.

Strayker wrote:

QuoteBergetiger can also cause two Tigers.

Yeah, youre absolutely right...therefore i think it will be only fair that Allies can have two Pershings with use of Mechanics. Besides it will make the SU viable ally for US in 2v2 games, maybe like WM+PE. And maybe it could bring more gamers to EF, who knows? Who wouldnt like multiple Pershings? ...I certainly would like to.

I hate seeing games with East and West Allies together. American and Soviet troops did make contact on the Elbe, but that was a few days after fighting had ended.

QuoteBergetigers can cause several Tigers. It's no ability it is a bug correct? Well, you would like to see the same bug for the Soviets, so you would support this bug!?

I dont think its a bug and if it is, it was probably intended, otherwise it could be nerfed in previous Relic patches, or even in this 1.20 EF patch which introduced slight tweaks to vanila factions. Anyway if you want to call it "bug", then be it...but i still think it will be fun when Allies can use this "bug" to their advantage as well.

QuoteI hate seeing games with East and West Allies together. American and Soviet troops did make contact on the Elbe, but that was a few days after fighting had ended.

Yeah and Pershings were used maybe two on Western Front and still you have them in game. Moreover Devs were thinking of implementing IS-3 to Soviets as an reward unit, though its no historical record that it was used against Germans. What im trying to tell is that CoH is not a 100% historical reproduction, if you want it try another mod.

I'm not completely agree about recover destroyed tanks with Mechanics. It's smells like OP.

One time I've played a 2v2 with my friend (me PE) and we used two Tiger Tanks combinated with double PE Panther...absolutely devastating!  ;D

I was once in a 4v4 where my 3! Tigers were the last stand against waves and waves of kangs. Neither side could push up until relic shat itself and the game ended. It was already a two and a half hour map (route N13).

Personally I didn't like when mechanics could rebuild tanks. It should stay with PE. But something does need to be done about them, they're a little crap atm.

Like I said, we should do a 50 muni fine for a recover!

A muni cost? For Russians?

Don't make me laugh.

I personaly dont like changing the M10 to M36. The tank destroyer itself looks fine, it has fine animations, but i think it changes the gameplay too much. Devs said that they will introduce only slight tweaks to factions based on gamers from GR, but removing a vehicle from faction doesnt look like a slight tweak to me. So i think the Wolverine should be back and the Jackson could be a reward unit for Sherman perhaps. What do you guys think?

You have to see it as a bugfix.

Mad wrote:
The God of War ability should be adapted in the future, I find it, odd to have as a last level ability when it’s so unwieldy and unpredictable where the shells land that I only use it as an extra if I’m bored. 
As a solution to this I would suggest one of four options:
1. Change the ability so it in fact offers creeping barrage to arty firebases at same cost.
2. Improve the power of the God of war, so it’s even more powerful but make it cost 6 points or more.
3. Weaken the power and reduce the cost. And narrow the barrage area.
4. Remove it entirely and replace with a new more interesting power. (perhaps a new self-propelled gun arty piece?)

The whole point of GOW is thjat ist inaccurate but long. It also works well with Human Wave ability. The only problem is that it costs too much CPs.

Soviet arti was never organised as good as the British arti so dont even start with "I want a british ability, but better, with no ammo cost and no gun needed to fire it." 

Quote
As a solution to their ineffectiveness I propose one of  four options:
1. Bring back the mechanics ability to rebuild dead tanks.
2. Give them the ability of the British sappers with the repair ability thing, so they can repair things to a higher standard and toughen them up.
3. Move them lower down the tree, so they can be recruited before the lend-lease Sherman and reduce their cost. (I would suggest 200 at most if they remain unchanged).
4. Remove them and replace with something else. I would leave this to the developers discretion.

I want mechanics to have 2-3 men and constript HP (easier to kill).
They shouldnt have overrepair becouse germans and british had the best engineers back then.
If mechanics will recive back the ability to rebuild dead tanks they should do it slower.

ok my take on 1.20 and 1.21 :) -

Awesome work, just a few annoying things ... ;)
- Sherman Jumbo bleh. How about making it a replacement
for the Pershing instead? (Reward Unit) with a cap of 2?
Shouldn't replace callioppe. I'd like to see Callioppe replaced
by Priest, though ;) (Sherman modification anyways and US)
and Reward Unit the Priest with the Sexon (proper unit)
: Sherman Jumbo is not necessary when the Pershing is
around. And vice versa.
- Sherman 105 : This unit is OP!!! It's a huge improvement
on the Crocodile. Can do everything the Crocodile could
do, and do it better. It's like replacing P4 with Panther for
same cost :p Plus, it's too cheap :) Awesome unit, though.
Perhaps put a cap on it, too? Graphx rocks
Perhaps take away it's shovel? / Reward units are about
choice. When the choice is a no-brainer, something's wrong.
Equivalences, yknow? :) - This unit isn't equivalent. It's a
big buff. It's better against infantry, buildings (bridges!)
And can even hurt tanks (not so well, but yea) - In every
way, it's better than crocodile.

- Medic Truck and ISU152's 'locked down' states are
hard to see. Can't you make 'em have a PE Marder3/P4G
'Locked down circle' for ease of use?
- Command Squad is next to impossible to vet :p
(Especially since you took away it's artillery) - Should get
xp from surrounding units (Like British officers). Maybe up
how many kills are needed, for balance. But def needed.

Bugs :
- Medic Truck does not heal Russian AT gun crews or
Russian Mortar crew.

Strayker wrote:
I personaly dont like changing the M10 to M36. The tank destroyer itself looks fine, it has fine animations, but i think it changes the gameplay too much. Devs said that they will introduce only slight tweaks to factions based on gamers from GR, but removing a vehicle from faction doesnt look like a slight tweak to me. So i think the Wolverine should be back and the Jackson could be a reward unit for Sherman perhaps. What do you guys think?

- Read the changelog.
It was done to fix the M10 misfire bug.
No cost, stat, speed difference. Just a different model,
and one less bug. The M36 looks sweet, too.
Making M36 a reward unit via Sherman?? Via M10 or M18
perhaps. Not M10+M36 (WITH SAME STATS) No :)
(One thing I'd REALLY like to see is for them to make M18
actual size. It was SMALL compared to Sherman!) :p
Not same size!

Last edited August 3, 2010 at 5:20 PM by Loupblanc

Strayker wrote:
I personaly dont like changing the M10 to M36. The tank destroyer itself looks fine, it has fine animations, but i think it changes the gameplay too much. Devs said that they will introduce only slight tweaks to factions based on gamers from GR, but removing a vehicle from faction doesnt look like a slight tweak to me. So i think the Wolverine should be back and the Jackson could be a reward unit for Sherman perhaps. What do you guys think?

Wolverine and Jackson are 100% the same except the model (it's to fix the misfire).

Rizz wrote:

Strayker wrote:
I personaly dont like changing the M10 to M36. The tank destroyer itself looks fine, it has fine animations, but i think it changes the gameplay too much. Devs said that they will introduce only slight tweaks to factions based on gamers from GR, but removing a vehicle from faction doesnt look like a slight tweak to me. So i think the Wolverine should be back and the Jackson could be a reward unit for Sherman perhaps. What do you guys think?

Wolverine and Jackson are 100% the same except the model (it's to fix the misfire).

I prefer M36...It's more cool and realistic! 8)

M10 saw more combat than M36 :)
Sooo... / But they look about the same, how can I say
it's OP (Same stats) / And models looks sweet ;) Sooo
Best reward unit so far, in my book :)

(Make the M18 smaller)(Same stats) please ! :D

Small note : I can see the lend-lease Sherman now!! *Gasp*

Last edited August 3, 2010 at 5:25 PM by Loupblanc

Strayker wrote:
I personaly dont like changing the M10 to M36. The tank destroyer itself looks fine, it has fine animations, but i think it changes the gameplay too much. Devs said that they will introduce only slight tweaks to factions based on gamers from GR, but removing a vehicle from faction doesnt look like a slight tweak to me. So i think the Wolverine should be back and the Jackson could be a reward unit for Sherman perhaps. What do you guys think?

How does it change the gameplay in any shape or form when it has identical stats to the M10??
Its a visual change, just like a skin but it also fixed the blank firing bug.

Loupblanc wrote:
[...]Make the M18 smaller)(Same stats) please ! :D [...]

+1, i always thought it's too big. but that would require a new model  ??? (because of the crew you can't just take the coh model and reduce the size  ;))

Let me clarify it, before you crucify me, okay? I didnt say it has different statistics, nor it has different cost or whatever. I just said it is a change in US faction, which is in contradiction what you Devs said (that this mod will never change the vanila factions)...it is like changing a Rifleman squad to "Soldier squad" with different skin, only 4 men, but same statistics...it is a change and those who play original CoH will probably dont like it, face it. The whole big plus of this mod was that it doesnt change the vanila factions by any means and adds new factions to play with (thats why it was considered as unofficial expansion for CoH, not just simply another mod). What im trying to tell is that i understant the need of new balance patch, because Relic didnt done one for a year now, so thats okay with me. Reward units are okay too, because you always have an option to switch to original unit. But removing a unit from faction completely isnt good from my point of view. Besides M10 had 76mm gun and M36 had 90mm gun, which is same as Pershings so its funny that M36 deals the same damage as M10, but i understand that as well in terms of balance. So in summary i think the M36 should replace the M18 as a reward unit for M10, not directly replace M10.

QuoteMake the M18 smaller)(Same stats) please ! :D

Yeah M18 should be smaller i saw a picture where a guy stands next to it and it looks really tiny.

- Making 6 men into 4 men can't be done while keeping
same stats. By definition. M10 to M18 only changes the look
of the tank, and it's like 99% identical. No biggie.
(Although M10 saw more use than M36 did)
- If you want to start changing stuff like that, please,
change the M18's size. THEN, it's lesser dmg via frontal
hit + camouflage ability will make sense :D

changing a 6 man to a 4 man is changing how the unit works in the game. M10-M36 work exactly the same, there is no change. I suspect you simply want us to use it as a powerful reward unit or something instead.
We did ask about it and people are quite happy to have the 'new look'  since it fixed the bug.
Having a 90 mm means nothing in coh stats, its not realism. And if you want to be technical about it, the DPS of the M10 is the highest in the game now meaning the gun is kick ass.
Tiger1 has the same gun as the flak 88, do you notice a difference? A puma has the pak38, do you notice a difference? A Marder has the same gun as Geschutzwagon, a Jagdpanther the same gun as KT, a T17 the same as a staghound and so on.....
You can't make a reward unit for a reward unit. Its not possible and it would be silly to say the least

You gotta live with it.  ;D

Zerstörer wrote:
You gotta live with it.  ;D

Lol. Then ill try to. :D

Anyway i said that the M36 model is ok, in fact i wanted to see it in COH, though not like this. I have nothing against it except that it replaces the M10 permanently. Nevertheless you made yourself clear and i got the point...i just hope there wont be any changing in PE faction. ::)

It would really be great, if EasternFrontmod changes the M18 and also the Marder III to its correct size.  :)

I know, it could require a new model, however it's nothing important, but definitely nice to see.

BTW: Geschützwagen (Marder I) also seems to be a little off-scale.

Last edited August 4, 2010 at 9:10 AM by Aouch

I'm still hoping for the oversized Marder (M) to be replaced with a Marder (H), looks way better and could be the actual right size too.

But I don't see this happening.

For me this is the best release of the mod by far, the new content really adds to the game alot, I've hardly played with the Soviets yet what with trying out all the reward units, hopefully in the next few patches the other factions can get as many as the US, plus a couple for the soviets.

The Jackson is a massive improvement on the M10, looks far nicer, still hoping for a re-sized Hellcat at some point too  ;D

I'd agree with Loup about the Jumbo and the Pershing being somewhat similar in purpose, but it is the armour tree after all, so the more heavy armour the better i suppose.

Keep up the great work  :)

Cheers

The Jackson model is absolutely stunning, love it! The Jumbo and the Sherm105 seem to be almost the same unit; a Priest instead of he Jumbo might be a nice change to the Calliope. Pershing's new model is also fantastic, now we just need a smaller [and faster...] M18  :D .

Paciat wrote:

Mad wrote:
The God of War ability should be adapted in the future, I find it, odd to have as a last level ability when it’s so unwieldy and unpredictable where the shells land that I only use it as an extra if I’m bored. 
As a solution to this I would suggest one of four options:
1. Change the ability so it in fact offers creeping barrage to arty firebases at same cost.
2. Improve the power of the God of war, so it’s even more powerful but make it cost 6 points or more.
3. Weaken the power and reduce the cost. And narrow the barrage area.
4. Remove it entirely and replace with a new more interesting power. (perhaps a new self-propelled gun arty piece?)

The whole point of GOW is thjat ist inaccurate but long. It also works well with Human Wave ability. The only problem is that it costs too much CPs.

Soviet arti was never organised as good as the British arti so dont even start with "I want a british ability, but better, with no ammo cost and no gun needed to fire it." 

Quote
As a solution to their ineffectiveness I propose one of  four options:
1. Bring back the mechanics ability to rebuild dead tanks.
2. Give them the ability of the British sappers with the repair ability thing, so they can repair things to a higher standard and toughen them up.
3. Move them lower down the tree, so they can be recruited before the lend-lease Sherman and reduce their cost. (I would suggest 200 at most if they remain unchanged).
4. Remove them and replace with something else. I would leave this to the developers discretion.

I want mechanics to have 2-3 men and constript HP (easier to kill).
They shouldnt have overrepair becouse germans and british had the best engineers back then.
If mechanics will recive back the ability to rebuild dead tanks they should do it slower.

Okay well I appreciate your views on each of these abilities that’s part of the reason why I offer different solutions to these I view as a problem.
Nowhere do I state I want to enact any one of these solutions or suggestions more than the others.
If as you say GOW works well that’s okay that’s your opinion, I can accept how it could work well enough. And I do not state it’s completely useless I just don’t like it’s unpredictable nature nor the cost of it being justified.  The human wave ability I find particularly useful and I agree with you there it can be good to recycle some lost units for an offensive. J

Okay so making the mechanics easier to kill sounds good so long as they receive a bonus because I never use them.
Of course I suppose the whole idea behind rebuilding tanks in a battle under fire could be criticised here but then I’m sure more people would be upset if this was removed, due to the Bergtiger being an incredibly useful unit for the PE.