Petition to make changes to the armor of current relic COH Allied Factions

1. American faction

currently the american faction doesn't have a good tank destroyer....

M10- has good armor penetration but too fragile,if left unattended it will loose even too a stug

m18- has better armor but poorer penetration,the roof mg is a useless upgrade unless you have munitions to spare!!!


"My proposal"

m36 tank destroyer

the m36 was used in the later stages of the war by the americans because they found the 76 mm cannon used by the m10 and m18 to be inadequate against heavy german armor(panthers and tigers)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M36_tank_destroyer

M36 is m10 chassis+m26 pershing 90 mm cannon

advantages over previous two versions(m10 and m18) are obvious

there are two ways of implementing this in the game 

1. Tank depot has m36 readily available at a cost of 350 mp and 60 fuel

2. 90 mm cannon can be researched at the tank depot for the standard wolverine or hellcat  at the cost of 100 fuel and 300 mp

however the m36 will now costs 320 mp and 55 fuel

pop remains the same-6

american are poorly lacking on a proper tank destroyer and people will fell the imba after the introduction of the ostheer faction...


2. British faction


the british are a largely defensive faction, so generally a british player has to play a defensive role than an offensive....

That said the british lack on a main battle tank(cromwell is pretty useless unless one takes fancy for it)

however for a proper offense the british require an "effective tank destroyer"

sherman firefly is an excellent tank destroyer but has several loopholes as pointed out by a few people on the forums....

Firefly pros

1. Range
2. Penetration
3 armor(better than the "standard" tank destroyers of the other factions except the panther)

firefly cons
1. Cost
2.Poor fire rate
3. Pop(its too much for a tank of its size)
4.Ineffectiveness vs infantry


historically the british had difficulties in mounting the 17 pounder gun on the sherman which explains the poor fire-rate


"my proposal"

m10 achilles self propelled antitank gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17pdr_SP_Achilles

its a 17 pounder mounted on an m10 chassis

was historically used as a mobile 17 pounder as the 17 pounder gun took 12 hours to be properly setup

implementation in the game

produced from armor hq instead of the firefly with a cost of 320 mp and 60 fuel with a pop of 7


advantages over firefly

1. Less cost
2. Normal fire rate
3. Less pop hence larger numbers
4. Range and penetration remains the same



the imba without these units will be difficult to resolve


"developers please reply asap............""

Last edited July 5, 2010 at 8:35 PM by Dragon93

First of all, we are able to read just fine without caps lock.
Secondly, wikipedia isn't the best source out there.

As for these changes, the devs will not be changing units of the original factions except for certain stats of those units.

Furthermore, no unit should be able to survive everything when left alone. On top of that, the stug is a tank destroyer, it is more than logical that it kills tanks with relative ease.

The cromwell, if used correctly, can be a good tank. The same goes for the firefly.
Correct me if I'm wrong but all units were made in such a way that they can be good if used in the proper way. The units sucking has less to do with their stats but more with the way in which they are used.

Cheers

In the nicest most polite way I can put this......

NO

US faction is actually the strongest at the moment if you learn to be very agressive from the start and do it well you've got the best chance of winning.

There is no imba as such, you can't go toe to toe 1v1 vs german tanks and win. Its part of the design.

Sorry to burst this bubble, but you're asking for a cheaper firefly for the US  meaning you really don't understand the faction and want an 'I win button'

If you want tougher tanks...play WH don't ask us to be turned into WH...or play Soviets cause they have kick ass tanks too  ;)
If you want fireflies, play brits

Last edited July 5, 2010 at 7:21 PM by Zerstörer

AbhMkh wrote:
m18- has better armor

M-10 and M-18 have same armor and HP.
This armor is better than Marders armor.

Quote
M36
...
M10 ACHILLES SELF PROPELLED ANTITANK GUN

Why do you want to make UK an US the same?
Allies are fun becouse they dont have many gay uber tanks.
Flank with M-10s and use artillery on german troop concentrations.
Get youre Cromwells/Staghounds to fight infantry.
Also Achilles wasnt called M10 just like Firefly wasnt called M4.

Whats wrong with youre CapsLock man?

US doesn't need this IMO. They just need a tweak on:

• their vehicle/tank vet.


• M10 Wolverine that sometimes misses when shooting an approaching vehicle(though I don't remember if this bug exists yet, since OF I not play as US).


• sherman crocodile.


• sherman cost.


• their always missing vehicle cover.


• 57mm build time.


• Pershing(well, not this unit but the bonuses that other units get against it).

IMHO and at last I remember relic should have been fixed that problems a while before. I never used the M-18, so I don't know if it's need to tweak something from it besides it's infamous camo.

Last edited July 5, 2010 at 8:58 PM by blackbishop

There isn't any reason to change US faction. If I want to do some changes, it should be recover two slots from roo and make  Cromwell more effective.  ;) This is all what need Allied factions to change.

Im sorry for the caps lock thing,i thought i should make a bit of emphasis  :)


@Tico_1990

I Think the current stats are fine for all the american units except for what blackbishop mentioned.& we arent discussing the stug here.the cromwell is practicaly use less tank
------------------------------------------
U guys see the american tank destroyer doctrine believed in making fast tanks(hence poor armor) with better guns and not a rolling piece of rock(e.g panther) , the m36 that im asking for is a part of the american tank destroyer doctrine

If everything in COH gets to be made historically accurate then why not this???

Im not not asking for an uber super unit on the feild(im not asking for pershings to be made out of the tank depot)

I'm asking for another "historically accurate" tank destroyer!!!!!

m36 is as fragile as the m10 but with the penetration stats of the pershing!!!!

and as too the 17pdr achilles,that too is very historically accurate and im sure it will give the british the much needed offensive punch!!


If you are making historically accurate units for every faction then why not for the allies!!!(british and american???)

how else do you think will you handle the nashorn or the elefant??????

"IM A BRITISH PLAYER"

the british are in need of a mobile AT gun(I was really surprised not to find one)

thts why im suggesting the m10 achilles as a sort of marder for the british!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So gentlemen give a thought to it again im not asking for anything unfair or i dont want an "i must win button"

Im asking for historically accurate objects and the American and the british are ought to get what they deserve  !!!!!

;D

What you are asking isn't wrong or forbidden by balance or realism. I think that could be possible if devs like it. I don't know how many rewards units will have each faction, but I'd prefer using achilles/archer as replace unit for 17 pdr but I don't know if that can be done.

Replace units on EF:

US
1)Sherman Jumbo
2)?????

Brits
1)Comet
2)?????

Wehr
1)Jagdtiger
2)?????

PE
1)Jagdpanzer IV
2)?????

Last edited July 6, 2010 at 3:24 AM by blackbishop

Hey BlackBishop i'm a software developer by profession, lets make our own mod  ;D!!!!

blackbishop wrote:
What you are asking isn't wrong or forbidden by balance or realism. I think that could be possible if devs like it. I don't know how many rewards units will have each faction, but I'd prefer using achilles/archer as replace unit for 17 pdr but I don't know if that can be done.

Replace units on EF:

US
1)Sherman Jumbo
2)?????

Brits
1)Comet
2)?????

Wehr
1)Jagdtiger
2)?????

PE
1)Jagdpanzer IV
2)?????

Not sure, think they're adding the PaK 36 37mm to Wehr.

Now, erm..
NO.

The M36 Pershing gun, may be a tank destroyer, but would be a tad-OP.

M10 would basically IMO be a Sherman Firefly with a hull-mounted gun [Although i would like to See the Archer, a 17Pdr. Anti-tank gun carrier, with the gun POS'd at the BACK of the Vechicle]

There is pioneer HT for PE(Bergetiger) which makes building of deffensive emplacments much faster. And pak36 will be reward unit too.... :)

Your request is DENIED. Remember that US has excellent AT guns and infantry AT weapons. US is the strongest faction right now and they don't need this. The faction that needs AT weapons change is PE.

Am mainly a usa player, thats nice to know.

I wish I could see British version of 75mm Sherman,just to replace cromwell...

Why? The cromwell is an excellent tank for it's cost. You should rarely lose them in combat due to their speed. They're also very accurate against infantry.

Cromwells are again good for nothing tanks

I can say that because 'm mainly a british player

it has to be replaced with either the comet or the firefly has to be replaced with the achilles/archer!!!!

And who says US is the strongest faction

In my belief PE is the strongest faction!!!!

cephalos wrote:
I wish I could see British version of 75mm Sherman,just to replace cromwell...

It's job is anti-infantry duties, of course cromwell can take vehicles and tanks like P4; also can support fireflies with its speed for rear shots. Indeed, the cromwell is ok, I don't think that needs replacement.

blackbishop dude sherman fireflies eat up 10 pop i dont think that leaves too much of a room for crommwells to support it!!!

yes the cromwells are vgd vs infantry but they are highly vulnerable to marders and paks which puts me off,id rather use a roo with bren squads inside for anti infantry support!!

the biggest thing that puts me off with the firefly is its pop besides the 100 fuel!!!

The Firefly isn't anywhere close to being worth its cost

And which allied armor is not vulnerable to 2 marders and/or especially paks?

Roos perhaps, but if a single marder fights a single cromwell, the cromwell wins hands down even if supported by infantry, because you didn't send your cromwell alone.

Certainly the pop cost for some of the brits and PE units is a joke... Let's hope that GR experts have thought something to fix brits and PE.

I hate marders. They just too light.