[1.11] Tank teching dilemma

Got a question regarding soviet teching.

When I build the tank hall, I just have to do the first upgrade "small tanks upgrade", then I can build all tanks but the T34...?!

To gain this baby I have to do the other upgrade. This kind of makes me avoid using this tank. And it was one of the most build and used tanks in WWII.

I mean ... why? xD

HansBlix wrote:
Got a question regarding soviet teching.

When I build the tank hall, I just have to do the first upgrade "small tanks upgrade", then I can build all tanks but the T34...?!

To gain this baby I have to do the other upgrade. This kind of makes me avoid using this tank. And it was one of the most build and used tanks in WWII.

I mean ... why? xD

The fact you can build IS-2 is a bug.

Should you alsoe be not able to build the SU85?

yeah i was wondering that too ? its quite strange for light tank support gets a heavy tank destroyer like the su-85 was that intentional ? or a bug also

Its intentionnal, because if heavy tankovy unlock SU-85, T-34 and IS-2, its far more useful for the player to get it. SU-85 is in light tankovy upgrade to force players to use light tanks.

But now, I think this fact make heavy tankovy quite useless: SU-85+T-90 can own everything the german can create, infantry or tanks. And both are far more accurate that T-34, and fire more often than IS-2!

Red_Stinger wrote:
SU-85+T-90 can own everything the german can create, infantry or tanks. And both are far more accurate that T-34, and fire more often than IS-2!

Su-85 is good? I have terrible luck with it every time I use it. It never hits

SU-85 is VERY good. Two should have no problems against a Tiger. It is available in light tankovy to allow for some AT if the player techs that way. Also, the T-34 is still a great tank and worth the upgrade if you can spare the fuel. In my opinion it's one of the most cost efficient units in the entire game, if not the most. The IS2 should only be unlocked with heavy tankovy though.

Red_Stinger wrote:
Its intentionnal, because if heavy tankovy unlock SU-85, T-34 and IS-2, its far more useful for the player to get it. SU-85 is in light tankovy upgrade to force players to use light tanks.

But now, I think this fact make heavy tankovy quite useless: SU-85+T-90 can own everything the german can create, infantry or tanks. And both are far more accurate that T-34, and fire more often than IS-2!

Fully agree. In competitive games I would never go for hvy tankovy, regarding the fact that I get early-mid game T90 + SU85 (upgrade to SU100 makes it even more usefull!) with the cheaper light tankovy...

...a problem I guess. Somehow plp should be forced to use T34 as a standard battle tank.

Maybe one could make light tankovy unlock the T34 and be a prerequisite for hvy tankovy...

Btw does anybody ever build a T70? Why? xD

GodlikeDennis wrote:
SU-85 is VERY good. Two should have no problems against a Tiger. It is available in light tankovy to allow for some AT if the player techs that way. Also, the T-34 is still a great tank and worth the upgrade if you can spare the fuel. In my opinion it's one of the most cost efficient units in the entire game, if not the most. The IS2 should only be unlocked with heavy tankovy though.

I think that IS2 should be unlocked by having both light and heavy upgrades. Light and heavy instead of light or heavy.
IS2 could then get a little boost to fight Ostheer Tigers and Elephants.

Stealth detection if the command squad can't get close for whatever reason. Good for finding/circling paks. They're also better against weapon crews in buildings or even heavy cover. But for open fields T-90 all the way.

Update: Agree with Paciat

T34/85 is probably the best value for money tank in the game...on purpose. its a fast, resilient all round tank with a good price tag.

There is a slight imbalance between heavy/light tankovy at the moment due to relative costs and T90 being insanely good vs light vehicles, but we're addressing that in the patch.

SUs are glass AT cannons

QuoteStealth detection if the command squad can't get close for whatever reason. Good for finding/circling paks. They're also better against weapon crews in buildings or even heavy cover

Thx.

QuoteI think that IS2 should be unlocked by having both light and heavy upgrades. Light and heavy instead of light or heavy.
IS2 could then get a little boost to fight Ostheer Tigers and Elephants.

Good idea.

QuoteThere is a slight imbalance between heavy/light tankovy at the moment due to relative costs and T90 being insanely good vs light vehicles, but we're addressing that in the patch.

Perfect.

xD

I don't know what it is but T-34s seem insane at sniping retreating units. You guys maybe wanna check that out. And I don't know about how much glass those SUs are, they may have low health but the SU-100 has pretty good armour. In my testing Tiger shells bounced off regularly from point blank range. The SU took off 3/4 of the Tiger's health in fact.

Well, the SU-series was build to fight the german hvy tanks. It's weaknesses were the slow maneuverablitly and its relatively weak side and rear armor.

But it appeared first time in August 1943 - AFTER the T34/75... I still think this should be a counter to hvy tanks only, and not the first armor-destroyer SU gets.

Why not unlock T34 with light tankovy? Though its upgrade would be just possible if hvy tankovy is unlocked. And this way hvy tankovy is the counter to german hvy tanks like Tiger, Panther and KT...

..and like Paciat said, IS2 to be the hvy alround soviet super tank you get when BOTH upgrades are done...

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I don't know what it is but T-34s seem insane at sniping retreating units. You guys maybe wanna check that out. And I don't know about how much glass those SUs are, they may have low health but the SU-100 has pretty good armour. In my testing Tiger shells bounced off regularly from point blank range. The SU took off 3/4 of the Tiger's health in fact.

They're no different in that respect to any other guns 76mm etc.
Su100 is meant to chew off large portions of a heavy tank but they do go down to 3 or 4 hits from panthers/tigers. Also due to the low health it makes them super vulnerable to Paks and Shreks
Also, what vet was the Tiger?

Zerstörer wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I don't know what it is but T-34s seem insane at sniping retreating units. You guys maybe wanna check that out. And I don't know about how much glass those SUs are, they may have low health but the SU-100 has pretty good armour. In my testing Tiger shells bounced off regularly from point blank range. The SU took off 3/4 of the Tiger's health in fact.

They're no different in that respect to any other guns 76mm etc.
Su100 is meant to chew off large portions of a heavy tank but they do go down to 3 or 4 hits from panthers/tigers. Also due to the low health it makes them super vulnerable to Paks and Shreks
Also, what vet was the Tiger?

Tiger is that great when compared to a Panther.
It has better accuracy vs infantry and a large aera of effect and more HP (+33%). Their gun fires little faster than Panthers. Everyone knows that.

But Tigers have weaker frontal armor, less gun range (Tigers and Shermans - 40, SU-85 - 45, Panther - 47,5, Firefly - 55), lower accuracy at longer ranges and while on the move. Their slower, their turret is also slower. Its gun also has less armor penetration than a Panther.

The tiger was vet 0.

This test was only done once, so obviously the sample was quite limited. Though we were suprised at the effectiveness. We knew the SU series had good modifiers against the heavier german armour and did good damage as a result but were shocked that it could go toe to toe with the tiger for so long. At point blank as well, where the tiger shines. Also, I am of course aware of their vulnerability to shreks etc. which kill them in about 4 hits.

Paciat, I am also aware of every fact you just stated but don't get the relevance.

SUs are specialized AT tanks and are therefore very good at what they do. They lack turrets and hitpoints but pack a great punch, especially vs heavies. A charging vet1 Pz4 eg is likely to kill an SU as you force it to manouvre and align its gun.
As such, they're always good as a back up for other tanks rather than 1v1 engagements

IS2s now unlock once both researches have been made which fixes things

I isee T-70s becuase they are cheap for a tank that good.

Depending on the strategy I go with, I actually use SUs as my MBT. I use the critical mass theory to destroy other tanks before they even get the chance to do much damage. 2-3 is enough. They also come much earlier. Anyway, I have no problem with the unit because it's terrible against infantry and has low health versus shreks. Paks do bounce off a bit as well though. What armour type do they have by the way? Hetzer? Stug?