Recovery units for the Ostheer...

Ok, so basically I've compiled a list of possible vehicle repair/recovery units, all of which were present at the Ostfront. Maybe this would make things easier for some.  :)

Last edited June 22, 2010 at 3:53 AM by Werwolf

Two points:

First:  PE Bergetiger mit MG34 -> Well. The "Tiger with thr crane" wasnt never used at the eastern front. It was a troop version of the 508. sHeeresPzAbtl ( Italy ).
And the biggest problem is that anyone know wether it is a repair unit or a demolition charge placing unit. No details and no information - just one picture had survived the war.

Second: Interessting - u are sure that Ostheer will use a machanized repair vehicle - or better - a recovery vehicle?
Anyone had said that Ostheer will use such a function.
So i cant see any reason for vote and discuss. 

Well Lord Rommel. The opening stages or Blitzkrieg strikes into Russia were fast mechanized strikes with infantry following through as i'm sure you know. The Ostheer should posses the ability for a swift repair vehicle to keep up the pressure on the enemy just like the original plan for Blitzkrieg suggests.

I mean for all its apparent uselessness in your eyes, i would think that a swift attack could use such a unit to its fullest potential. In a defensive "hold the line strategy" this unit could be used to provide a boost to the vehicles and hunkered down structures holding the line and in it self serve as a meat-shield for infantry units. Seems quite useful for a quick attack transitioning into a bogging defense strategy.


Why are you going to have one engineer unit do ALL the dirty work when you can have a specialzed mechanized repair unit (weaker than a regular tank but stronger than those pathetic Engies and Mechanics) who can do the repairs. As for recovery, i think that function must remain solely in the hands of the PE. I believe that the mechanized repair unit should be either a Bergepanther, or a mechanic's half-track (so it isn't a fortress, but isn't easy to kill, compared to regular engies of course).

Also it would make more historical sense (i personally believe the Bergetiger was an anti-obstacles breaching tank) to have something that actually served on the Ostfront.

Lord wrote:
Two points:

First:  PE Bergetiger mit MG34 -> Well. The "Tiger with thr crane" wasnt never used at the eastern front. It was a troop version of the 508. sHeeresPzAbtl ( Italy ).
And the biggest problem is that anyone know wether it is a repair unit or a demolition charge placing unit. No details and no information - just one picture had survived the war.

Second: Interessting - u are sure that Ostheer will use a machanized repair vehicle - or better - a recovery vehicle?
Anyone had said that Ostheer will use such a function.
So i cant see any reason for vote and discuss.

About the Bergetiger... yep, it's inaccurate and disputable (I also think it was either a mine-laying or obstacle-clearing vehicle), but I still included it in the list just in case some would like to vote for it.  ;) After all, it WAS a Relic invention from the get-go.

Personally, I think the Ostheer could use one such repair or recovery unit, particularly one which could keep up with the armored spearheads and not lag behind like the current Bergetiger does. Since nothing as of yet is written in stone, I guess we're all free to speculate, Ja?  ;)

I prefer this, today would be a wonderful day to launch the ostheer on the anniversary of Barbarossa.

I think the Bergepanzer III or Bergepanther (with MG) would fit in the best.
After all, they're able to keep up with your armoured forces breaching into the enemy's land and at the same time bear enough armour themselve to not be destroyed too easiliy.

However, it seems logical to only give them repair ability, not full recovery and let this part be an exclusive "feature" of the Panzerelite.

@ hernan: I doubt the Ostheer is finished yet.  :o
Personally, I think the DEVs have only about 60% if not less of the planned content included. And do not forget it has to be tested first, otherwise the forums will be spammed with an incredible amount of bugthreads and other things.

Last edited June 22, 2010 at 7:57 PM by Aouch

hernan wrote:
I prefer this, today would be a wonderful day to launch the ostheer on the anniversary of Barbarossa.

Ah the sweet and slightly stupid irony. Mr.Cortes that would be a Bergetiger (please read the very small caption in the corner) and as Lord Rommel and myself have mentioned, this particular beast DID NOT serve on the Eastern Front and by many is considered to not have been a recovery vehicle.

Recovery Kingtiger with 12,8mm Pak mounted

PE have a recovery vechicle becouse they dont have medics. No zombie infantry but zombir vechicles instead. Same thing was with Soviets (Mechanics) untill 1.10.

Ostheer should have a recovery or a medic halftrack.
Schwerer Zugkraftwagen is my choice for a recorery vechicle - the heaviest halftrack that wehrmacht had.
Unarmed -> easy to create by devs.
Heavy -> slow -> easy to hunt down but has a lot of HP (450-600).

Last edited June 22, 2010 at 11:18 PM by Paciat

maxi1991 wrote:
Recovery Kingtiger with 12,8mm Pak mounted

lol ;D seriously?

Paciat wrote:
Ostheer should have a recovery or a medic halftrack.

OR none at all because the last thing Company of Heroes needs is ANOTHER German faction, much less one that takes things from the pre-existing two.

maxi1991 wrote:
Recovery Kingtiger with 12,8mm Pak mounted

12,8cm i mean.

the Zugkraftwagen 18t seem to be the best choise for me at the moment. It wouldnt be just another "repair-tank" - and it could also be the "build-vehicle" of the ostheer - instead of having just another pio squad.

Last edited June 24, 2010 at 4:11 PM by Venoxxis

Venoxxis wrote:
the Zugkraftwagen 18t seem to be the best choise for me at the moment. It wouldnt be just another "repair-tank" - and it could also be the "build-vehicle" of the ostheer - instead of having just another pio squad.

What if only Zugkraftwagen 18t could build Panther turrets? (~ 300MP 40Fuel) These turrets would be buildings (no crews of their own) so any fraction could man it. No no recrew bug.
If allies would see Zugkraftwagen they should expect that a Panther turret will be build. Building and repairing units take x3 dmg...

Saavedra wrote:

Paciat wrote:
Ostheer should have a recovery or a medic halftrack.

OR none at all because the last thing Company of Heroes needs is ANOTHER German faction, much less one that takes things from the pre-existing two.

How about a first aid ability? A squad that took some casualties could pick up wounded of the ground (for ~50ammo) instead of reinforcing. It would work like in the Causeway and Tiger Ace campaigns.

Paciat wrote:

What if only Zugkraftwagen 18t could build Panther turrets? (~ 300MP 40Fuel) These turrets would be buildings (no crews of their own) so any fraction could man it. No no recrew bug.
If allies would see Zugkraftwagen they should expect that a Panther turret will be build. Building and repairing units take x3 dmg...

Saavedra wrote:

Paciat wrote:
Ostheer should have a recovery or a medic halftrack.

OR none at all because the last thing Company of Heroes needs is ANOTHER German faction, much less one that takes things from the pre-existing two.

How about a first aid ability? A squad that took some casualties could pick up wounded of the ground (for ~50ammo) instead of reinforcing. It would work like in the Causeway and Tiger Ace campaigns.

+1
That sounds good :D, and it's different from the others factions. Do you think it could receive a little defensive buff when picking a wounded?

Bergepanther is so sexy  ::)

Last edited June 24, 2010 at 5:49 PM by UeArtemis

Paciat wrote:

Venoxxis wrote:
the Zugkraftwagen 18t seem to be the best choise for me at the moment. It wouldnt be just another "repair-tank" - and it could also be the "build-vehicle" of the ostheer - instead of having just another pio squad.

What if only Zugkraftwagen 18t could build Panther turrets? (~ 300MP 40Fuel) These turrets would be buildings (no crews of their own) so any fraction could man it. No no recrew bug.
If allies would see Zugkraftwagen they should expect that a Panther turret will be build. Building and repairing units take x3 dmg...

Sounds kick-ass paciat. is the "recrew-bug" really out of the way if they do it like this?

What about making the Panther turrets as their defensive HQ weapon, they could be like the US MG nest, it wouldn't need recrew, like the wher bunker and the US tent(yes they can garrison one unit but I'm not talking about this feature).

EDIT:
If devs aren't planning to implement zombie vehicles then I don't see the point to use a tank to repair another one or a vehicle, the Zugkraftwagen 18t sounds good, besides the pantherturms, perhaps it will "over-repair it" like the brits?

Last edited June 24, 2010 at 6:28 PM by blackbishop

Paciat wrote:
How about a first aid ability? A squad that took some casualties could pick up wounded of the ground (for ~50ammo) instead of reinforcing. It would work like in the Causeway and Tiger Ace campaigns.

1- Supposing you mean "spend 50 ammo every activation", who would spend 50 ammo on reinforcing a squad when they can use mp, which comes at a faster rate and is cheaper by pure numbers?

2- Supposing you mean "spend 50 ammo per squad, once, to give them this as a passive ability", this would mean squads who could self-perpetuate without having to depend on reinforcement sources. This is a bad idea because then you could keep them in the same place all the time, without moving them.



Again, Ostheer does not really need any kind of special recovery. Bergetigers are kind of a special vehicle for PE because, I would assume, they come mighty handy in an army made of paper armor (scout cars, armored cars, halftracks, mortracks, ATtracks, vamptracks, munitracks, Marders, etc...).

If there is no reason for the Ostheer to have something special, like having really crappy vehicles, then DON´T give them something they don´t NEED.

Saavedra wrote:

Paciat wrote:
How about a first aid ability? A squad that took some casualties could pick up wounded of the ground (for ~50ammo) instead of reinforcing. It would work like in the Causeway and Tiger Ace campaigns.

1- Supposing you mean "spend 50 ammo every activation", who would spend 50 ammo on reinforcing a squad when they can use mp, which comes at a faster rate and is cheaper by pure numbers?

2- Supposing you mean "spend 50 ammo per squad, once, to give them this as a passive ability", this would mean squads who could self-perpetuate without having to depend on reinforcement sources. This is a bad idea because then you could keep them in the same place all the time, without moving them.



Again, Ostheer does not really need any kind of special recovery. Bergetigers are kind of a special vehicle for PE because, I would assume, they come mighty handy in an army made of paper armor (scout cars, armored cars, halftracks, mortracks, ATtracks, vamptracks, munitracks, Marders, etc...).

If there is no reason for the Ostheer to have something special, like having really crappy vehicles, then DON´T give them something they don´t NEED.

Or, you can make one of these as a Ostheer reward unit/replacement for the horrible, horrible Bergetiger. My main gripe with it is that it's so SLOW. It can barely keep up with an advancing armored column, and can only perform it's essential functions when all armored units 1.) have stopped their advance, 2.) are gathered in an assembly area. And even then, it would take a while for it to get there.

...Which, of course, would make the waiting armored column susceptible to enemy AT/arty/mortar fire/air stikes, or even GoW. The Bergetiger, in turn, could be easily eliminated en route to its destination.

Last edited June 26, 2010 at 3:35 AM by Werwolf

Saavedra wrote:

Paciat wrote:
How about a first aid ability? A squad that took some casualties could pick up wounded of the ground (for ~50ammo) instead of reinforcing. It would work like in the Causeway and Tiger Ace campaigns.

1- Supposing you mean "spend 50 ammo every activation", who would spend 50 ammo on reinforcing a squad when they can use mp, which comes at a faster rate and is cheaper by pure numbers?

2- Supposing you mean "spend 50 ammo per squad, once, to give them this as a passive ability", this would mean squads who could self-perpetuate without having to depend on reinforcement sources. This is a bad idea because then you could keep them in the same place all the time, without moving them.

~means more or less to me.
I guess 50ammo per man is too much.
On the other hand I use UKs marksman ability as much as possible becouse 25ammo per man is cheap.

Anyway in first patches this ability should be used only if you really dont want to retreat.
Everyone remembers how OP 1.00 Soviets were. Got to be carefull with new abilities.

Last edited June 26, 2010 at 9:22 AM by Paciat

Saavedra wrote:
[quote author=Paciat link=topic=3854.msg38735#msg38735 date=1277398052]

If there is no reason for the Ostheer to have something special, like having really crappy vehicles, then DON´T give them something they don´t NEED.

Well put. Unless veterancy 3 defensive is achieved for most vehicles or heavy panzergrenadier support is available, most halftracks or tanks in PE are crappy.

I submitted a unit on the UNIT SUGGESTION thread earlyer today, and that unit was the pzkpfw II. The panzerII is a diversive light tank that [like many other german armor designs] was converted into many different versions to serve in whatever role a commander needed it for at that time. One of these versions was the Bergepanther II Ausf-J, it was used by 116th panzer repair company. Most of these different and multi-upgradable versions of the panzerII were USED ON THE EASTERN FRONT!!! Perhaps a comander in coh eastern fronts could produce these panzerII's and then upgrade them to meet his needs. Give it some thought. 

vonhaggon wrote:
I submitted a unit on the UNIT SUGGESTION thread earlyer today, and that unit was the pzkpfw II. The panzerII is a diversive light tank that [like many other german armor designs] was converted into many different versions to serve in whatever role a commander needed it for at that time. One of these versions was the Bergepanther II Ausf-J, it was used by 116th panzer repair company. Most of these different and multi-upgradable versions of the panzerII were USED ON THE EASTERN FRONT!!! Perhaps a comander in coh eastern fronts could produce these panzerII's and then upgrade them to meet his needs. Give it some thought.

The Panzer-II has been mentioned numerous times, and people have various differing opinions about it. Myself, I'm quite partial to the Ausf. L (Luchs) as a T1-T2 recon unit.

The Bergepanzer version sounds good btw. ;)