Wehr vs Soviets 1.11

This was a nice game. Early bike making trouble for me. I always seem to start in the hole with Soviets then start a come back as I tech up. I think I need to make better use of conscripts. Any advice, this game was pretty close.
This game features from Wehr T1-T4- T2. Multiply mg42 had my guys crawling around everywhere. I pop fire up on the command squad and they still crawl, wtf? My opponent said they did fire up for about 3 seconds. Watching the replay it was more like 1 second. This a bug or how its supposed to work?  Assault nades which are pretty effective against the Soviets since they cant retreat. Med bunkers starting to churn out zombie grens.  Panzers4, multiply Ostwinds, Panther, paks and tiger.

from me; flamers, Tank Hunters, T90, SU-85 and Shock Guards, then the Sniper Ace out pak hunting.

Ok, same early game and teching tips as the other game. Your opponent was actually quite good in this game but his inexperience at fighting Soviets showed. I had to laugh when he cried imba at your AT nades seeing as he steamrolled his panther into close combat. He should have kited better. You used these to great effect. Also, bundled nades are better than assault nades imo.

Your tank micro is actually much better than your infantry micro and you did well to finish off most of his vehicles. Earlier on though, when you had a sturmovie squad fighting an mg in a building you should have thrown a satchel in.

I still maintain that the sniper ace is too good. The ability for him to detect things without being detected himself has annoyed me in many of my games. He's also nearly impossible to kill. I think that when retreat is added, he should have his movement reduced to normal cloaked speed but have an ability that lasts for a minute that allows him to move at normal and has a 2 minute cooldown. This way, if you fail to plan ahead with him he can get caught on cooldown and hunted down.

In all, a much more entertaining game than the other.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I still maintain that the sniper ace is too good. The ability for him to detect things without being detected himself has annoyed me in many of my games. He's also nearly impossible to kill. I think that when retreat is added, he should have his movement reduced to normal cloaked speed but have an ability that lasts for a minute that allows him to move at normal and has a 2 minute cooldown. This way, if you fail to plan ahead with him he can get caught on cooldown and hunted down.

Death to:
Ninja packs,
Vet 1 self heaing snipers,
Stormtroopers with 95HP each, best infantry smallarms and AT weapons available,
Bunkers that have more HP, are cheaper, have better armor than any MG nest/medic station.
Pios that are so cheap that they dont have to cloack.

I hate when Wermacht builds a defensive line stronger than any British SimCity and then they calls in a Tiger or build an 88 and drops the most powerfull arti in game on their uncloacked oponents.

Tactics like setting up radio triangulation and using 25lbs (UK) or mass attacks from all sides from all sides with arti use (US) can work but are very expensive and dont guarantee winning sothey cant be called counters to cloaking.

Thats when Sinper Ace comes in.  8)
He cant kill everything, he just sinpes the most annoing units in the game arties bunkers and makes that these invisible defensive lines disappear permanently. Finally a unit that forces late game OP wehrmacht to move their asses out of their cover.

There's nothing wrong with self-healing snipers, or vet stormtroopers. Bunkers and Paks I agree with but I'm not quite sure what you mean by pios cloaking... Wehrmacht is strong but unforgiving. A single flank that gets through can decimate most of your units.

The sniper ace should NOT get close enough to something to detect it without getting detected himself. That is not his function. Also, there's a difference between getting them to move and being uncounterable. There is no good way to kill him at the moment. You have to get very lucky, making him too good.

AND USING ARTY FROM STEALTH MUST GO.

Thank for watching guys and thanks for the in depth review Dennis. It does help. Your right about my inf micro, its needs work. Im so use to the rifle spam conveyer belt. I need to work on my use of conscripts I think. It just seems like most wehr players always bike spam me and bikes completely shut down my conscripts. A bike will completely eliminate a Ingenery squad in no time. Im going to try and get the upgrade for conscripts asap and see how those guys do. I’ve done this effectively against the AI but that’s a big difference from playing a human player.
So I end up floating early game MP till I can tech up to tank hunters and sturmovie ingenery which leaves only my command squad to keep me in the game. Sharpshooters was on the back of my mind in this game but im always afraid to go for those guys because it delays my tank hunters. If only they where on the same upgrade tree in the armory as tank hunters it would be perfect. Hey Devs, change that for me will ya guys, lol. Also sharpshooters require a lot of attention or you going to loose a costly unit.

Did you guys notice the SU-85 at around 18 minutes into the game? That was so freaking funny. It gets the 5% bug then after they finely get it and its in the “out of control” mode the mg42 squad just walks into its treads and die, lol.

Im not sure I agree with you about the sniper ace. All snipers detect cloaked units before the sniper becomes un-cloaked. And for me it takes 9 CP to get to the sniper ace because I go flames first. So it is seldom a game changing unit and it wasn’t in this game either. I could have stayed on the left side and got that arty tank at 8 CP. At 750 MP and 75 munitions to give him the arty call in ability that’s a huge investment in a single man squad. He will require a lot of attention which takes away attention from other units. That kind of equals it out.

As far as getting rid of stealth arty goes, I could live with that. But any other changes to the sniper ace would make me sad. Would probably just keep me on the left side of that tree.

Meh, I've mentioned many times I prefer the left hand side anyway. I did see that MG though and loled. It was especially funny because it almost happened the first time but he retreated but when the tank finally died they went in to suicide again. Talk about depression.

Conscripts are definitely what your game is lacking. I'll gladly give you a few games if you want some practice against a human opponent.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
There's nothing wrong with self-healing snipers, or vet stormtroopers. Bunkers and Paks I agree with but I'm not quite sure what you mean by pios cloaking... Wehrmacht is strong but unforgiving. A single flank that gets through can decimate most of your units.

The sniper ace should NOT get close enough to something to detect it without getting detected himself. That is not his function. Also, there's a difference between getting them to move and being uncounterable. There is no good way to kill him at the moment. You have to get very lucky, making him too good.

AND USING ARTY FROM STEALTH MUST GO.

Soviet sniper SHOULD be able to get close enough to detect it without being detected and that is his function.
Hes a sniper ace.  8)
He cant retreat so its risky to spot in enemy territory.

Arti from stealth isnt a big deal too. Counter it with youre Sniper+Nebel combo witch is cheaper than sniper ace (340MP+325MP=665MP<750MP).

No, arty from stealth is just plain wrong. No amount of discussion on this can change my mind.

It's not risky at all to have him operate in enemy territory when things have to literally touch him to detect and he moves at normal running speed. He also has deploy smoke should he get in trouble, allowing him to make his escape.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
No, arty from stealth is just plain wrong. No amount of discussion on this can change my mind.

It's not risky at all to have him operate in enemy territory when things have to literally touch him to detect and he moves at normal running speed. He also has deploy smoke should he get in trouble, allowing him to make his escape.

A Sniper ace that cannot retreat should be hard to detect and should have an ability to survive when being hunted. Thats why youre paying extra 410MP to have him.

Wechrmacht has 3 types of powerfull doctrinal call-in arti and can use anywhere on the battlefield, together with cloacked sniper.
Soviets have only GoW and Il-2 witch cant be called precise strike and are not in Urban Strategy.

The only thing that needs to be changed are the ammo costs (+50% to all costs exept commander SMG and constript rifle upgrade). Its too easy to get upgrades now and ammo stopped being an important resource since 1.04.

When the sniper uses his arty from stealth it should uncloak him. His arty is devastatingly accurate, powerful and fast to call in. It is also free past the unit upgrade. Nothing in the wehrmacht arsenal can compare. All are either expensive and/or less effective than this. Also, a sniper in enemy territory is a great risk as he has nowhere near the survivability of the sniper ace. Anything that stumbles across him guarantees the kill. Even with retreat that sniper is dead.

Yes, he should be hardER to detect but not nigh impossible as it is now. Only a bike can detect him, in a rather small radius. He can then smoke, sticky it and continue on his merry way. Nothing else has a chance to detect him. A well microed ace will always be in the long range bracket from enemy troops so even if he happens to be detected by a bike or something unlucky (medics/bodies) he will barely be scratched by their bullets.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
There's nothing wrong with self-healing snipers, or vet stormtroopers. Bunkers and Paks I agree with but I'm not quite sure what you mean by pios cloaking... Wehrmacht is strong but unforgiving. A single flank that gets through can decimate most of your units.

The sniper ace should NOT get close enough to something to detect it without getting detected himself. That is not his function. Also, there's a difference between getting them to move and being uncounterable. There is no good way to kill him at the moment. You have to get very lucky, making him too good.

AND USING ARTY FROM STEALTH MUST GO.

I agree.  In addition when the Soviets get retreat from 1.2 it make no sense to have the command squad arty either.  I think its bugged sometimes; if they call it in while your screen is looking at somewhere else to micro your pio vs their ingenerie or something, even if you move your screen back 1 second later (the red smoke is supposed to be there still) there's no smoke, so you have to guess where he dropped it, which is fatal because sometimes you just can't afford to move all your combat units from their position... 

Sometimes 1 more retreat or a single MG can determine the fate of a game when you are against a good opponent.

Last edited June 14, 2010 at 3:18 PM by Chancellor

i am impressed with the wehr player
every match (when i played soviets) i steamrolled the germans from the start. command squad rapes everything in its path

I'd really like to watch how a wehr player could survive vs soviets a few minutes..... but unfortunately I can't watch the replay...

I have 2.601 + EF1.11... replay went were all the other replays are. Still not available...

What did I do wrong?

HansBlix wrote:
I'd really like to watch how a wehr player could survive vs soviets a few minutes..... but unfortunately I can't watch the replay...

I have 2.601 + EF1.11... replay went were all the other replays are. Still not available...

What did I do wrong?

Did you tried to watch it in vanilla COH or in the EF one? Maybe the file is corrupted, try to redownload it, it could work.  ???

Situation changed: Now, everytime I start the replay (via EF) I get a sync error and the game proceeds in a very weird manner... like every player builds only one unit... and starts capping... thats the whole game... funny... but pretty unskilled... xD

Also the SU faction in the replay menu wears the british flag..

Any ideas to solve this problem?

The soviet players in the game history section always appear with a british flag. Sync errors could be caused by incorrect game data or a faulty replay. Try redownloading the replay and making sure your EF version and vCoH version is correct.

You can:
a) Watch replays if them were recorded with the same version(patch) that you have now; this is for both, vCoH and EF.
b) If you have replays from 2.600 there's an utility on GR to convert from that version to 2.601, this is for vCoH.

You can't:
a) Watch replays from vCoH on EF and vice versa. Different versions.
b) Watch replays below 2.601 if you have full patched your vCoH. Also you can't watch replays below 1.11 if EF is up to date. Different versions.

In my experience:

If you watch a replay with "Sync error" and the game proceeds in a correct way, perhaps the file is corrupted.

If you watch a replay with "Sync error" and the game proceeds in a "weird way", most likely you are trying to view an outdated replay.

P.S. While trying to see the replay I realize that got the same error that our comrade hans... GodlikeDennis, do you use 1.111? :S

EDIT: Whoops! I have uninstalled, reinstalled and updated EF and now works :P. The good thing about uninstall is that the files remaining are never meant to be there ;). @Hans remember to patch to 1.111 after 1.11.

Last edited June 30, 2010 at 6:49 PM by blackbishop

Thx, got it working.

@Sonders: I think you could have easily ruled out the WM Player much earlier.

The first engagement is basically rape-won by your Command Squad. You just sacrifice your Conscripts and then arty strike on MG-building and own the volks. Battlefiled is yours.
At 5.40, when you use fire up against two MGs you have 600-700 mp which could have been invested in to Strelky squads at that point. Those could have easily flanked the MG's = second engagement win. You basically dont do anything in early game, dont use the full power of soviet infantry.

Your use of SU85 was decent though.

The wehr player was pretty good IMHO. His greatest weakness was your greates strenght: His tank micro. But anyways he seemed quite more skilled than you in that game. No offense.

Again a replay which gives the impression SU is OP.

HansBlix wrote:
Situation changed: Now, everytime I start the replay (via EF) I get a sync error and the game proceeds in a very weird manner... like every player builds only one unit... and starts capping... thats the whole game... funny... but pretty unskilled... xD

Also the SU faction in the replay menu wears the british flag..

Any ideas to solve this problem?

hit update on your loader