[1.11] God of War "2"

Since this ability didn't change in the last patch and I think it needs to be reconsidered I open again the same topic which was already closed:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3278.0

According to the original design this ability should deny large area of the map. But from my experience this goal is not achieved when used. GoW shoots very unprecise and with low cadency, which means it doesn't really deny any area, it just make minor to medium damage to ALL troops and structures including my own or my allies. IMO it doesn't fit to offensive player at all and it does fit only a little to defensive player. The price for this ability is therefore too high as Paciat pointed out several times.

2x upgraded Soviet mortars or 1x firebase do more damage than God of War simply because they are more precise. I know that before [1.00] this ability was OP but now I find it quite useless. As some players pointed out - GoW could be used when deployed close to enemy base, which is only logical. I agree that in this case it is the best use of this ability but it is still like lottery ticket - you could do some damage, sometimes almost no damage or very rare do good damage when it hits damaged squad, vehicle or building and completely destroy it.

It needs either to be cost lowered from 6CP to max 3CP or redone to some usable artillery barrage which could be presented by f.e. 20 seconds of heavy gunfire sounds in the background and after it hits designed area with better accuracy and better cadency than it is now. In this case it actually would fit the Propaganda doctrine because Soviets used zounds of guns (thousands) on EF and every major offensive was started by hurricane fire of ALL available artillery pieces.

Last edited June 6, 2010 at 7:37 PM by wordsmith

I agree with you that God of War should be changed, it's useless, except for german player!
But I think that will not happen for a LONG time, the time needed to make their new patch! Also I dont know the dev's opinion about it: if they have let GoW as it's in this patch, they have no reason to change it.

I want to be able use it in my ENEMIES territory. I find in hard to believe that bombarding my territory will have any good outcome when I want to take THIER territory. So far I have managed to kill more of my own troops then theirs. If I pull out, they take all my territory while suffering hardly any casualties. Kinda sounds like it defeats the purpose!

I like that propaganda doctrine makes Soviets defensive (just like luftwaffe to PE).
The idea of GoW arti was good in theory but it seems not to be working in practice.
I know that Soviets dont care much about their men but sector arti wont be usefull if it will target allied troops. (That dosnt meen it wont kill few men if they are too close to enemy positions). In short, it should be a sector arti that works on a aera (little smaller than now)-not a sector.
I dont mind it hitting base buildings just like I dont mind V1 aka base destroyer.

I dont want it being changed to some normal artillery barrage becouse:
1. Sharpshooter and Command squad have that ability.
2. One short arti strike wouldnt work well with very long cooldown but no ammo cost.

Last edited May 31, 2010 at 6:30 PM by Paciat

You misunderstand me. I love the area of effect part of it. Its just I think it would be more effective if it could also be used in enemy territory. For example a heavily garrisoned village near a point you want captured. I'm sorry if it didn't (or still doesn't) make much sense. To reiterate, I only want to be able to use wherever I think its needed.

Bowser wrote:
You misunderstand me. I love the area of effect part of it. Its just I think it would be more effective if it could also be used in enemy territory. For example a heavily garrisoned village near a point you want captured. I'm sorry if it didn't (or still doesn't) make much sense. To reiterate, I only want to be able to use wherever I think its needed.

True. Sector arti works on friendly or neutral territory becouse this arti is from Scorhed Earth doctrine.
GoW should work on all sectors. It could be less accurate but more powerfull.
It should cost less CPs too.

Paciat wrote:
I dont want it being changed to some normal artillery barrage becouse:
1. Sharpshooter and Command squad have that ability.
2. One short arti strike wouldnt work well with very long cooldown but no ammo cost.

I think we agree that change in this ability is required. I personally wouldn't mind some real heavy arty barrage even with long cooldown, because almost all factions have something like this anyway. And Soviets used really lots of arty guns. I think I would be ok with GoW if it would have like half of the current dissipation or less CP cost.

maybe Soviet Arty walking barrage? Like brit one, but 20 shells wide ( like 20 arty guns making wlking barrage).It should be more precise than GoW, and you choose from where to where arty is bombing everything.

Soviet should be able to obliterate the entire battlefield, just because they are supposed to have the more powerfull arti in the game ( like in real life lol ). But I think this power should be used to annihilate german troops, not soviet troops. Arti of all nations have made friendly fire on their own troops, but the actual GoW is more useful for the ennemies!!

Still holding to the idea that the 3-4 wide and 5-6 (circles) long creeping barrage with a start up time of like 15-20 seconds would be far better than what it is now.

This ability really isn't good at all, we should rename it King of War.(KoW)

The ability should be able to call in a chain blade wielding spartan warrior to annihilate the fascist invaders.

Except you would have to do a quick time event every time you wanted kratos to kill something.

Just make GoW a mega barrage in an area with a long windup and cooldown.

Some really good ideas were posted here, because as of now this ability is quite useless and costs to much CPs. I think that best idea would be to change GoW´s inaccurate fire to fire only in one sector as PE´s Sector Arty, but with very long cooldown because no munitions cost ofcourse and long active usage (say one minute+). In this time span would be that one sector bombed to hell, providing effective area denial for both allies and/or enemies without the need of revealed Fog of War.

I don't know about the 3CP thing... The Soviets already have a lot of artillery, and Propaganda Strategy lets them get Katyushas!

nbeerbower wrote:
I don't know about the 3CP thing... The Soviets already have a lot of artillery, and Propaganda Strategy lets them get Katyushas!

Wehrmacht has Stukas, Nebels and 2 types of call-in arti in 2 doctrines.

What if god of war make available 2 types of call-in arti, one for defensive and the other for offensive, or one for defensive and one of area denial

the defensive could be like sector artillery, but first shot not to fast, less acuracy, more shells, less effective against tanks

the offensive one could be a sort of creeping barrage,less powerfull, more shells, with big circles overlapping a little one to another. something that you use and let you scream "uuuraaa" and charge:P

if i'm not mistaken, can't you use it in enemy territor if a "spotter" is present? i could've sworn i did this in a game last night.

The ability is nothing like sector artillery, in that it can be used anywhere you have line of sight bar base sectors. I have no idea where this idea of friendly/neutral territory only came from. It does not require further line of sight past ability activation, so it will continue to fire regardless of LoS after it is active (unlike sector).  Also, in case anyone wonders, the ability does drop smoke flares in the epicenter.

Last edited June 12, 2010 at 4:14 AM by GodlikeDennis

I think what he meant was that it could be dropped anywhere not just in friendly sectors which is true, you just have to have actual visual control (no fog of war). Only exception is HQ sector. After trigerred you don't have to maintain the visual control it would drop shells anyway for about 1-2min... did actually someone measured how long it works? I just measured the impact, which was about 2 standard screen lengths radius from epicenter but the density and cadency is so low that it's just pitiful.

It works far more longer than 2 minutes. From 4 to maybe 6 minutes.

cephalos wrote:
It works far more longer than 2 minutes. From 4 to maybe 6 minutes.

This can be called a bug too.
Most abilities are yellow when active and blue when cooling down. GoW works when its cooling down.

when using GoW, artillery strikes even 600 seconds after activation, with a reload of 900...there is only little real pause from constant bombardment.

I love the Doctrine that the GOW is in, definitely suits my playing style. However, I think that GOW itself is a complete waste of time getting or using. I personally think that that doctrine is still powerful enough even with only the two abilities on the right, so i think if GOW is made powerful like some of the ideas suggested, that doctrine might be OP.

Make it more useful, or make it something completely different. Don't make it too powerful.

Its useally 1 or 2 thinks the make a doctine good.

Condottieri wrote:
[...] or make it something completely different.  [...]

Thats what i guess to be the best at the moment. Improving the ablity would make it op and also more compareable to the PE's sector art.

Lets get something new instead of this ability. This slot should be uses in a "cooler" way.


-V-

I think that it fits in pretty well. The russians were well known for thier use of artillery. It just needs to be rethought.

Idea.

Make God of War mimic the British Creeping Barrage. However, while the British Creeping Barrage is fairly accurate, you could make God of War fire on a wider area and with more shells but at the cost of accuracy.

So if Creeping Barrage´s area fire looks like this:

|....|
|....|
|....|
|....|

Make the God of War´s barrage look like this:

|...................|
|...................|
|...................|
|...................|


Again, more shells, but more spread out as well. I think this would work better on area denial and also could help advances.

+1

Saavedra wrote:
Idea.

Make God of War mimic the British Creeping Barrage. However, while the British Creeping Barrage is fairly accurate, you could make God of War fire on a wider area and with more shells but at the cost of accuracy.

So if Creeping Barrage´s area fire looks like this:

|....|
|....|
|....|
|....|

Make the God of War´s barrage look like this:

|...................|
|...................|
|...................|
|...................|


Again, more shells, but more spread out as well. I think this would work better on area denial and also could help advances.

+1

cephalos wrote:
+1

nomad52 wrote:

Saavedra wrote:
Idea.

Make God of War mimic the British Creeping Barrage. However, while the British Creeping Barrage is fairly accurate, you could make God of War fire on a wider area and with more shells but at the cost of accuracy.

So if Creeping Barrage´s area fire looks like this:

|....|
|....|
|....|
|....|

Make the God of War´s barrage look like this:

|...................|
|...................|
|...................|
|...................|


Again, more shells, but more spread out as well. I think this would work better on area denial and also could help advances.

+1

+1

thats a good idea as the russians would usually let loose huge bombardments of massed artillery before a major offensive.

blackbishop wrote:

cephalos wrote:
+1

nomad52 wrote:

Saavedra wrote:
Idea.

Make God of War mimic the British Creeping Barrage. However, while the British Creeping Barrage is fairly accurate, you could make God of War fire on a wider area and with more shells but at the cost of accuracy.

So if Creeping Barrage´s area fire looks like this:

|....|
|....|
|....|
|....|

Make the God of War´s barrage look like this:

|...................|
|...................|
|...................|
|...................|


Again, more shells, but more spread out as well. I think this would work better on area denial and also could help advances.

+1

+1

-1
I dont like giving Soviets another accurate arti strike (Command Squad and sharpshooter team strikes is enough).
Dropping this free arti strike on enemy base would be sick.

GoW should cost less CPs. Thats the only thing that needs to be changed.

The way i see it is God of war does need to be fixed.
There are several ways to do this.

1. increase the time cooldown to something ridiculously long but increase the effectiveness of the ability.

2. Make it cost less CP's, reduce the area affected but keep the bombardment going for longer period.

3. Get rid of it completely, imho you're better off waiting for the firebase to recharge than use GOW. and as another person said the Russians already have alot of artillery.

I have doubts in all of these cases if the change will be good enough.

Just make it alittle smaller, and in my point of view, everything will be fine.

Cost less

Paciat wrote:
I dont like giving Soviets another accurate arti strike (Command Squad and sharpshooter team strikes is enough).
Dropping this free arti strike on enemy base would be sick.

Make it unusable in base territories.

Plah, just delet it and replace it with some crap abitly

in my opinion the soviet firebase is way too innacurate. it pretty much hits everywhere but where you want it to hit.

and since you can only make one, i think it should be a little better.

comrade2012 wrote:
in my opinion the soviet firebase is way too innacurate. it pretty much hits everywhere but where you want it to hit.

and since you can only make one, i think it should be a little better.

Not to be mean but did you read the rest of the posts in this thread? Because we are not talking about firebases.

Yea, you tell him, nomad52!

Might as well. Were not getting anywhere with GoW.

We arent talking about firebase, but I think it should be take in count, since soviet have less arty than before (fortunaly lol).

If GOW is so useless atm, the abilitie should also unlock a way for soviet to build more than 1 firebase (say 2/3), because they need something to cover their advance: propaganda is based on "traditionnal warfare of infantry and artillery" (or something like that  :)) , and firebase is almost as inaccurate as GOW. Others ways to bomb for free for soviet are:
-Katyusha, max of 3, doctrinal unit
-upgraded mortar
-arty call in for sharpshooter and commander
-KV-2?  ;D

I'm not saying that soviet need more stuff to slaughter germans with arty, but it would be fun if propaganda can give something to play with it (other than kat, I dont like it so far).
Prop war is the most useless choice atm: trench can be useful but are easy to nades, MG nest is the most expensive MG nest of the game (cost MP, Fuel and pop!) and cant be recrew, "for the motherland" is unappropriate because its an offensive abilitie when we need a defensive one...
Only kats and "Red Tide" are really helpfull in late game.

Again I would love to see an 'arty-toy' to make prop war more interesting. Some idea posted here are nice, I hope dev will take one or two to improve GOW.  8)

The first time I saw got of War blow up my own stuff, it also raped the enemy pretty bad.  I thought that it was a pretty awesome trade-off. 

Since then, it's only been all bad.  Ultimately, I think the developers should be steering away from abilities that are more random than intention based.  This ability is very random in its influence on the game.  I do like that it does friendly fire, That makes it different and seems like a tradeoff of a very powerful long running ability...but I think the area of effect should be greatly reduced, (and obvious to both players, if that's codable)...and my concern would still stand, that its influence on the outcome of the game might still be too random.

conversley, I've found the russian air strike to be equally maddening, though all positive on the russian side.  The targetted area really only acts as a starting point.  I've dominated games against my friend, only to have my whole standing force wiped out in 20 to 30 seconds.  I'm not really sure at the moment, why there is a target area, because they seem to fly over and hit anything anywhere.  It really needs to be confined to the general area where the target has been placed, I think.

Well, I found GoW quite useful as supression ability - command squad, binoculars as far as possible and GoW - enemies often don't risk losing forces from random shell, so they don't attack or even move through bombarded area.

I've seen a guy who used HT to transport his infantry through the targeted area (it was a 4vs4 map), they dont take a lot of damage and are fast. Also tanks arent annoyed by this abilitie which come in late game - when there is a lot of tanks!

However, binocular may be a solution to avoid allie losses!

Yeah this ability definetely should be changed...i mean it takes 6 CPs to unlock it...the V1 doesnt take that much CPs and thats a ultimate weapon of terror though it doesnt do as much damage as it should either. Nevertheless its more usable as this one. High probability of friendly-fire, extremely long cooldown and long distance/delay between shells fired makes it a ultimate never-using ability...i think sufficient would be to lower its spread to only one sector, lower its CP price and change the delay between fired shots and it will be just fine.

Yes the cost id toooooooo high

It should be reduced to 4 cp

No word from Devs.
Will 1.20 change anything with GoW?

kat's make god of war look very lame, if GoW is made more powerful It may be overkill to have the god of war and kat's on the same doctrine
anyway something needs to be done with it, maybe more like sector arty or yank howitzer barrage, but really it should be something original which is i sure what the devs intended
it needs to reflect the quote from which it is named 'Artillery is the god of war - Stalin
maybe if it barrages at a not too hardcore way with long cooldown, but uses the strafing run template for its hit area, as though a commander was trying to focus on an enemy defensive line.
with prop being the only doctrine allowing russ to supress early it seems likely that defensive lines will be forming on both sides.
good luck devs

RussHaus