The Eastern Front Mod in Russia

Interesting review. Admittedly they had reviewed our unbalanced initial release, it would seem that most of their niggles will be sorted by the release of the next major patch. I wonder how their opinion would change.

In Russia this the fashions will not be very come to love, because developers offend such mod veterans and their children and grandchildren.

Those troops which were located near a border are not ready were. A rifle weapon was in surplus in throughout the year of war. But I do not understand why soviet troops can not pick up a weapon and equipment from earth, and why can not retreat in the district of staff.

New factions cannot recrew heavy weapons without crashing the game. It is an engine limitation which we cannot fix, so we removed the ability. Retreat will be added to Soviet units in the next major patch.

Thank you. On your place I would clean conscripts. All of soviet army- conscripts. We did not have such detachments in general, where one rifle on two. There was ordinary, as well as other armies, detachment of infantry. There were submachine gunners in him, pointers and machine gunners.

There is lot of ignorance and failure to understand technical issues we faced at the beginning and are still dealing with even now(complaints about voice acting? WTF??). There is a distinct lack of understanding as to the modding limits in COH.
Yes the review is no doubt for v1.00 which was somewhat of a mockery balance wise...we're still paying for that...and its a very uphill fight...

There were no knights Cross units either in the war....one of the things people fail to understand is that we keep it in the the spirit of COH, creating units with cinematic cool feeling based on historical backround.
Honestly, if you fail to see that, its not our problem when people expect totally different type of mod which doesn't follow vanila COH spirit. A 'reviewer' that fails to understand such basic concepts of vanila COH, then criticizes the mod, is frankly a muppet!
Wtf would be the point of naming all units ' Soviet infantry' and then tagging them Green/Regulars/Experienced/Veterans just to keep your 'historical sensitivity' satisfied(which is far from an impartial view at that)? 
They also Have to look Very different for game terms and have distinctive titles.

To sum up, if you don't like the design...tough shit. Pull your finger out and make one yourself then see how many people you please with your result...
Balance wise, we've made huge progress(still only 4 months since initial release) mostly due to our commitment and the people who help up by not sitting on the side lines bitching and moaning and complaining about issues, but instead provide genuine help. This is something we'll continue to improve upon.

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 12:53 PM by Zerstörer

I find it hard to resist getting annoyed when people complain that our Soviet faction are not a perfect representation of the real Red Army, and claiming that it is insulting to base it off films and other games.

Have they not ever played the original factions in Company of Heroes?

WartyX wrote:
Have they not ever played the original factions in Company of Heroes?

The US faction has so many references to Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan, it's not even funny. :P

I found this on the internet...
http://usercreated.org/2010/01/27/review-eastern-front-company-of-heroes/

It’s not just the Russian Army you’re getting here. The mod comes bundled with a swathe of maps, the best of which see you engaging in claustrophobic conflicts in the midst of the bombed out cityscape of Stalingrad. The units look fantastic and the sound direction is top notch, from the authentic Russian barks to the distinctive crack of their rifles, everything feels professional and polished. Quite frankly, Relic could have made this.

I just wanted to show that the modification in Russia and the CIS was "coldly" greeted.

And that is 90% down to those 'Russian gamers' not us or the quality of our mod. Although it has to be said one article is hardly an indication of the general feeling there...(there is like 5 comments all in all lol)
Apart from balance concerns (which wasn't really what was on that 'review') the rest of the article was like it was coming from someone clueless on vanila COH/COH modding and an overbearing amount of ignorance on what we are trying achieve...Waaaaaaay too much stuck on his 'historical accuracy' and misrepresentation as he sees it.

Quote
As for me, it is the main negative of the mod. Indeed, in a single party, we do not pass the path from 1941 to 1945. We play one single clash of the second half of 1944 - the first half of 1945. No more.

....I mean honestly...did COH cover 1939-1945 and I missed it?

The only real problem, regardless of where the players come from, is balance/gameplay...that 'hardcore historical accuracy' stuff only come from a 'select few' and hence why its not a concern

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 1:11 PM by Zerstörer

You do fashions about our army, and our grandfathers militated in it, as I already and talked,  all of my grandfathers had killed on this war. One under Stalingrad, other in Leningrad. Be is kind doing our army is normal, but not propose by its cannon fodder which nothing able. From detachment of the German militiamen pound more than, from two detachments of draftees. If you need some help in information and creation of 3d models, can help.

Everyone had grandparents who died in the war no matter what country, you're not unique in your situation. There is no disrespect here but having a grandparent die in the war doesn't somehow make you or anyone else for that matter an expert on WW2. Most importantly, this IS A GAME! NOT A HISTORY LESSON.

You clearly do not understand the basis of COH and are stuck on your 'historicaly sensitive ideals'. Get over it and play COH like the game it is. We've made the Soviet army COH style, not to make some sort of History lesson. If you don't get that, look for another game not COH

Although we appreciate the offer, we do have a wealth of information which we research before making anything that is related to this mod.

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 1:31 PM by Zerstörer

To all the History fanatics: neither vCOH nor EF are history simulators. Furthermore, neither Relic, nor the EF team claim that the game/mod is such a thing.
This means a few things:

1: Complaining about historical accuracy is pointless. It is the same as complaining that a painting doesn't sound right. Of course it doesn't, it is meant to be viewed, not listened too.

2: The EF team are able and allowed to take the entertainment level into consideration

3: If you are so keen on having a proper war/history simulation, than play Hearts of Iron 1, 2 or 3

Cheers

Thus here history? In COH Americans and Germans look steep, and you did a soviet army cannon fodder. For you did anybody perish on war? How many did perish soviet people? 27 millions, and from them only 8 million soldiers. One time do fashions of soviet troops, do his normal with normal units infantry. That for a delirium? 1 rifle on two, where you was it seen in general? All yunity infantry perish as flies unlike Germans and Americans. Thus here game, if you did so.

So you are saying that because the Soviets perished like flies in the war, we should have the respect to make them not perish like flies ingame?

Russian people do not like the fact that the Red Army is not in the spirit of the time (1944), in which conditioned the other sides.

Well, in all reality, the other sides are not actually conditioned to suit 1944. Relic took many many creative licenses on units from all four factions.

You certainly fine fellows, that did such scale fashions on COH. I a long ago dreamed to see our in this game. But all the same it is needed to finish off him. As I talked already, sick theme with draftees. Motorized infantry perish as flies, although they must be equal to the basic infantry of the USA, Germany and England. You wrote one time, that it is experimental soldiers, do them in detachment 5 persons and do equal on possibilities to the infantry of other sides. And similarly cannon of ZIS-2, it is better to change him on ZIS-3. ZIS-2 very dear and difficult 57mm cannon, they were produced very little. When ZIS-3 was the basic cannon of the USSR.

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM by InkvizitoR_51rus

To the Russian people who don't like it that the Russian army isn't in that spirit, I'd like to point out that they become so later on.
I prefer the way the Russian nation was build because it shows some form of development through time.
Also, as for the "Russians being killed so easily", have you ever seen what happens when a Russian player attacks the German soldiers? The only German infantry that stands a chance are PE grenadiers with G43.

As for my country during the war, it was ran over in 5 days and some pretty nasty stuff happened (I'm from the Netherlands).

Cheers

Я думаю, русские люди и прочие десятки народов СССР, лучше знают историю своей страны и армию того времени.
I think, Russian people and other ten of people of the USSR, better know history of the country and army of that time.

In fact, the ZIS-2 has better penetrability than ZIS-3. ZIS-3 is better against unarmored targets.

InkvizitoR_51rus wrote:
... десятки народов СССР...

Only translation note: "десятки народов СССР" is better to translate as "dozens of nations of Soviet Union" than "other ten of people of the USSR". You clearly use Google translate, maybe it would be better if you post also in Russian language because sometimes it is very hard to decipher the message. Later someone who speaks Russian could translate - like UeArtemis f.e.

I also use Google, I'm lazy, but I read in English fluently.
I need to urgently make a diploma, so please do not bother me about translations.

I not very much well know English. To read and translate can, but to write on him I am difficult, I know grammar badly.

It is needed to add jeeps and reserved cars to the soviet army. I do not know why the developers of it did not do. On the first stage of game, Germans on motochicles with machine guns destroy any detachment of the USSR in easy, compel them to retreat to the base. So they deprive his resources, in a multyplayer yet worse...

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 4:11 PM by InkvizitoR_51rus

Well I think you guys did are doing a great job on this mod. And being that its free, I don t see how anyone could complain.

I am sorry to hear that a retreat for the Soviets will be added in the next major patch. I read the polls about it and it was closed before I got here. I think it really sets this mod apart making the play style so much different from the other factions. Also, not being able to crew dropped weapons should be a feature and not a bug. I find myself destroying empty paks more than I ever have before. The different play style makes it more fun. I don’t see why so many want to make the Soviets more like the other factions.

I don’t want to offend or make anyone feel bad but most of us know what happened to Russian soldiers in WW2 that ran or retreated. And not just the grunts but high ranking officers too.

Who said “It takes a brave man to be a coward in Russia” ?

What's with some Russians getting so butthurt over such minor details? I have never seen Germans whining about the Knight Cross Holders, a unit which never existed and that are basically well-dressed soldiers decorated with the Reich's second highest military honor being sent to the meatgrinder in 3-man squads.
And those who whine about the russian soldiers being "spam", I have NEVER seen an American player crying bloody murder and saying the game is pissing on their grandfathers' tombs by making Ranger spam a valid tactic. Learn from them and enjoy the damn game, you spoiled brats.

I wonder if these russian players would be more happy if the Soviet units were more "historically accurrate" and had special functions that made them loot the map houses ramdomly and rape everything in sight. ::)

I LOVE the cinematic badass units like the conscripts and Red banner Strelky, I hope the devs don't surrender to the haters and change them.

That for a delirium does talk? Brains are washed for you behind an ocean. If does not know about what talk, better silent. For such for us at a muzzle beat

InkvizitoR_51rus wrote:
That for a delirium does talk? Brains are washed for you behind an ocean. If does not know about what talk, better silent. For such for us at a muzzle beat

Instead of dismissing my post in such poorly, poorly written English try to at least argue why you think I'm wrong.

"if the Soviet units were more "historically accurrate" and had special functions that made them loot the map houses ramdomly and rape everything in sight"

That's actually very rude over a russian/ukrainian people, and very immature! Things happened in WW2 cant be resume with generality, and especially things that happened in the eastern front.

I've never seen anyone tell something about german soldier who were rapping and looting everywhere during sometimes 4 years of occupation, BEFORE soviet army. There is a big difference about the largeness of war crime commit by the 2 army.

I've never seen anyone tell something about the american, who "liberated" france by bombing out entire cities ( like they did in Germany ) and rapping thousands of french women!! This was the most important wave of rapes in the french history. But no one look worried about this!

So before post immature and disrespectful comment, please, think about this.

Red_Stinger wrote:
That's actually very rude over a russian/ukrainian people, and very immature! Things happened in WW2 cant be resume with generality, and especially things that happened in the eastern front.

Sorry no offense intended, just being sarcastic to that guy.

All right, before we make any more rash statements let's look at what the review actually said in more detail. I've taken the time to translate it as best I could.

-------------------------------------------------------
On January 21st the mod “Eastern Front” was released. For those who waited eagerly for the mod, it is finally here. The release of this mod brought about two kinds of fans. The first, foaming at the mouth types, exclaimed incessantly the awesomeness of the mod. The second camp, the supporters of the original game, tried to open the eyes of their misguided peers. We also could not sit idly by and distance ourselves from the mod. We support those people who are speaking out against the mod. Let us preserve CoH’s purity of blood and not let it be replaced by an amateurish attempt to replace the original. Although we thank the modders for putting in a titanic effort into the creation of this mod, let’s start at the beginning lest our fans burn up in a fit of rage.

First impressions.

Our first doubts about the quality of the mod appeared during installation. A picture of Soviet soldiers dismounting from a T34 suddenly appeared, followed by the background cacophony of battle. This aroused some curiosity but we later realized this belied the fact that the game lacked the charm of a serious piece of work. This was but a trifle, however, which really isn’t relevant to the actual game.

And so upon launching the game we are greeted with the unsightly mug of a commissar (clearly taken from Call of Duty 2). The background music being very pleasant (used from the soundtrack of the film “Hunt for the Red October”) it still was out of place and fit in with the general substandard quality of the mod. With impatience I create a game and choose the USSR. With surprise I note that the Soviet faction was strictly added [translator’s note – I assume he meant that it was added as a completely new faction and did not replace any of the existing factions]. The “Ostheer” will be added in the distant future. With the players gathered – we could begin.

After the game loaded it felt as though we were watching a rerun of “Enemy at the Gates”. Hmm…interesting, interesting…With a few clicks of the mouse we had at our disposal the proverbial “Russian Horde” ready to be used as cannon fodder. While the troops tore at our eyes and emitted incomprehensible sounds, we sent them to look for MG42s or anything that might bring about some action or epic battlefield drama. It is worthwhile to note that the USSR has access to everything. Tanks, artillery, air support...All of this is in abundance and costs almost nothing. In fact, an artillery barrage does not even cost any resources, the same for grenades and other things that bring about happiness in one’s life. A certain feeling of discomfort arises from the fact that the player can experience four long years of war in one single match. One quickly gets accustomed to it however and ends up giggling nervously while obliterating swathes of Wehrmacht forces.  Winning my first match with my partner left me with a positive first impression, ignoring the nagging feeling that a lot of the mod was still rough around the edges, the mod after all is about us. Having said that we should not celebrate yet since first impressions can be deceiving. Now let’s look at the mod a little bit closer.

Enemy at the Gates…Really?

We’ll begin with the fact that Russian voiceovers are completely lacking. We have instead a mishmash of Soviet and Wehrmacht voices – a little strange isn’t it? Moreover, we were disappointed to find out that Russian soldiers can’t retreat or man heavy weaponry. Not one step back? Yes it’s here (unfortunately)… Meanwhile we have the cheapest unit in the mod “conscripts”. Here we have another little curiosity. Half of them are not armed and can’t even fight in hand-to-hand combat. Modders, could you at least decide on the period during which all of this takes place? I’m not even talking about the fact that there are symbols of communism present, commissars are everywhere and some squads even have standard bearers (what the hell?) To put it briefly: While the infantry was drawn very well – there nevertheless lingers a strange odor about the mod.

The SU tanks are quite dangerous while the IS-2 is worth its weight in gold. There is a diverse selection of tanks that await us in the game which clearly cannot be bad. But some of them were a bit disappointing…For example the “Zveroboy”. Even a shot from this tank fails to inflict any serious damage to a panther which should be destroyed in one shot from an anti-tank round. We were glad to see the T34 which could carry tank riders into battle. However the modeling of the tank itself was…average. Destroyed tanks seem to have the same burnt-out model which isn’t easy on the eyes. Especially when the tank is facing the right but when destroyed, ends up facing the left.

The artillery – this was something. It was a lot of fun and greatly amused us, but the unsightly modeling of the Katyusha spoiled the party so to say. The model was taken from “” [translator’s note: does not say, I assume one of the Axis vehicles]. The artillery could definitely use some more work.

The creators of the mod did not limit themselves to just creating a new faction – they also made some maps. To tell you the truth, it’s hard to call them maps. It would be better to say they were hastily drawn and simply looked good on the surface. Some maps simply were redrawn from the original, for example “Leningrad” shared a 90% similarity to the map “Battle on the River”.

In conclusion…

In concluding our review we’ll say one thing – the modders clearly played “Call of Duty 2” a lot and are fans of “Enemy at the Gates”. On the whole the mod is targeted towards degenerates and lovers of spam. For the average player the mod will provide two, at most four, days of enjoyment. There is a massive dissonance, it feels like the mod is unfinished and is in need of serious additional work. We’ll wait a bit and see what happens when the Ostheer is released. 
-------------------------------------------------------

I have a response to quite a few posts in this thread but I'm a little burnt-out (pardon the pun) from the translating  ;)

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 7:38 PM by thebomb

Happycat wrote:

Red_Stinger wrote:
That's actually very rude over a russian/ukrainian people, and very immature! Things happened in WW2 cant be resume with generality, and especially things that happened in the eastern front.

Sorry no offense intended, just being sarcastic to that guy.

Dont worry, I was myself a bit (very?) rude, I dont wanted to flame you!  :-\

About the review, it's clear that they have only play at 1.00, which was far from balanced/interesting as it's now ( I mean less interesting about the way the soviet was able to play ) .

I'm curious about their opinion for EF 1.11.

If I agree with some things ( the ridiculus RBB  ;D ), some of their statement show clearly that they dont have any idea of balance: "Even a shot from this tank fails to inflict any serious damage to a panther which should be destroyed in one shot from an anti-tank round".
Oh my god!
Also, I dont like their vision of EF mappers. How can they say that "they were hastily drawn and simply looked good on the surface". Have they ever tried to make a map?

It seem to me that dev shouldnt have to care about a review written by an inexperienced and disrespectful guy. Numerous people have a great opinion of their work, and everyone need at least recognise the work which was done by a team, only with their free-time.

@thebomb: thank you man for translation! it is much better to read than with google translate, which needs so much imagination to decipher the original text. I can read Russian quite good and understand a lot since it is slavic language similar to mine (Slovakia) but I would not be able to translate whole text correctly for sure. Thank you again for your effort.

Why is a cannon of ZIS-2 the done model Pak-38? And where famous soviet artillery? Why in a game the pitiful English howitzer, but not 152mm cannon of ML-20. And why the unarmed soldiers are needed in draftees, if pound from them it is not.

Happycat, and what are you right from? I borned in Russia, and I know history of the country and victory of my nation better. I will say confidentially, in our Russia bears walk on streets with balalaikas. I live in a wooden log cabin and sleep on a large stove. In the morning we drink vodka all of family from a samovar))))

I am from the UK but I don't complain about the ridiculous lack of any historical value in the British faction, and the same goes for my German and American friends. Neither Eastern Front nor Company of Heroes have any aim to be accurate representations of the war.

WartyX wrote:
I am from the UK but I don't complain about the ridiculous lack of any historical value in the British faction, and the same goes for my German and American friends. Neither Eastern Front nor Company of Heroes have any aim to be accurate representations of the war.

I don't think it's so much the historical inaccuracies themselves that people are complaining about - it's the fact that the historical inaccuracies don't favor the Soviets as they do the other factions. Of course you don't complain about the inaccuracies of the British faction because it is presented in a badass way - the CoH way. If someone were to design the British faction as you had designed the Soviets then British soldiers would automatically retreat when they engaged a numerically superior force (we've got to portray the British Expeditionary Force's failures somehow). In fact, if a squad gets pinned down - the British player gets an "out" whereby the Germans take pity and let them retreat without casualties (like what happened at Dunkirk). And finally, British infantry could not go into battle without first stocking up on tea at the player's HQ.

Do you see what I mean?

The point the reviewer and the posters in this thread are trying to make is that the historical inaccuracies in the game portrays the German, American and British factions in a rather favorable light. The units are portrayed as heroes and badasses. The Soviet units meanwhile are portrayed in the opposite way. How can a conscript be badass when they get shot for being suppressed? That's not badass at all. When the reviewer from the Russian site said that the purity of CoH was being tainted by this mod I think he meant it in this way.

In fact, I think the way the DEVs designed the Conscripts is a bit, hmmm, not really disrespectful, rather in the direction thebomb explained it:
Relic overdraws the factions but made them "cool", EF made the russians look "a bit silly". At least when it comes to Conscripts.

However, in the end it "feels right". Don't forget that USSR also got some fancy stuff to play with like guards or IS-2.
I think some of the russian players just overreacted and certainly can't take "criticism"/jokes about theirself.

EDIT: Another thing just came into my mind: WH "Volksgrenadiers". They are represented like old men and children, but infact Volksgrenadier-units were made out of soldiers who lost their original unit. There were tankers without tanks, pilots without planes and grenadiers without division.

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 11:13 PM by Aouch

If the russians don't like it, well let them cry. The mod is based on movies and games just as the regular game is based on movies and TV series like Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan. Enemy At the Gates portrays the russians as a vast horde with officers that shot them if they attempted to retreat. You can argue about the historical inaccuracies till you're blue in the face, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people liked the movie and a lot of games were very influenced by it. So of course a mod based on the Eastern Front is going to take a few pages out of that movie, to appeal to the masses. Maybe Enemy at the Gates isn't a popular movie in Russia, but in a lot of other countries, we enjoyed many aspects of it.

Lets face a few facts here. How many legitimate Russian players are there in COH? (those who downloaded illegally dont count), compared to american, british, german, and australian players? This mod is trying to appeal to the masses. A few lost russian players isn't that big of a loss to them compared to the thousands of players from other countries.

And for the record, I'm a rather qualified historian of the period myself. I know what's historically accurate and what's not. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a silly romp through psuedo history. I play games like the Saboteur, Medal of Honor, and other titles that take more then a few liberties with the timeline, and you know what? I don't give a flying f-ck, because it's FUN. FUN, you know, that thing that games are supposed to BE?

If you want historical accuracy there are plenty of games to suit your fancy, in fact, many of them are from the same country full of whiners. Russia seems to churn out a new historically accurate turn based strategy every month. Simulations also seem to be constantly churned out of Russia, games like IL2 sturmovik for instance.

Plus there's a few heavy realism oriented shooters like Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45, and it's various mods Mare Nostrum for the Mediterranean theater of operations, and Darkest Hour: Normandy 44-45 for the late battles on the Western Front.

There are PLENTY of other games that DO claim to be historically accurate and try their best in that regard, so please. Shut up about the realism in this mod and go play one of them if it bugs you that much.

Edit: one quick afterthought. Just be glad that the devs didn't put in historically accurate features like raping all the women at the end of a victorious round, or shooting all the enemies officers if they're polish. That shit DID happen after all. Maybe you russians should remember just what your "heroes" did during the war. You weren't that far behind the germans as far as atrocities go.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 11:40 PM by BDNeon

But Volksgrenadiers and grenadiers existed! And what are conscripts??? the Red Army had only Motorized Rifleman, Guards and etc. and all they were draftee.
About Knights Cross... One completely unhistorical unit against full non-historical faction? Russian do not want a historical simulation, they want to see the best aspects of their army.

Oh, ... Soviet war crimes... Jedi against the Empire of Evil? Let's talk about it after the anti-Soviet analogue of the Nuremberg Trials. Until then, it is only a war between two propagandas.

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 11:50 PM by UeArtemis

Don't even try to justify the crap that Russia pulled during WWII. Katyn, Lienz, the rape of Berlin, and those delightful little Gulags that were so plentiful. THESE ARE PROVEN UNDISPUTABLE FACTS OF WHICH PHYSICAL EVIDENCE EXISTS. Stalin had a little holocaust of his own going on, no one called him out for it because he didn't lose the friggin war.

You want historical accuracy, then this mod is going to have to include rapists and murder of surrendering enemies.

The international community may not want to deal with the issue, but we historians know the truth of what the Soviet Union was.

It sickens me how the Russians try to whitewash their war crimes. They're scum, even worse then the nazis. At least modern day germany acknowledges its war crimes. The Russians simply discount any claims of atrocities as propaganda even in the face of clear undisputable evidence.

Don't even try to peddle your Russian revisionist bullshit on these forums.

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 11:53 PM by BDNeon

The rape of Berlin is 100% propaganda ;) Read works of professor Atina Grossmann
And Katyn is true.
But the topic is not about it

Last edited May 30, 2010 at 11:56 PM by UeArtemis

See, revisionist scum. The Rape of Berlin is a known fact in every country except russia because of the historical revisionism movement led by them.

You're just as bad as the holocaust deniers.

UeArtemis wrote:
...Russian do not want a historical simulation, they want to see the best aspects of their army.

Before this thread turns into pointless flamewar I would like to know which aspects exactly do you mean? What was the best of Soviet Army which isn't incorporated in the mod? And please I do not mean it as offend, I'm just genuine curious.

*slowly backs away from thread*

Well I'm sticking to my guns. I don't tolerate historical revisionism. I have a deep love for history and the idea that people would try to spread lies in an attempt to change history infuriates me. I have a deep hatred of modern day Russia for how they are denying the war crimes they committed. Almost all the other countries from the time have acknowledged their fuck ups. Here in America, we accept the low points in our history like the campaign of expansion waged against the native american population, or the cruel semi-genocidal war in the Phillipines. But Russia just says "No, you're lying, we never did any such things. We are pure angels that led a campaign of righteousness against the evil fascicsts. See, here's a picture of Stalin petting a puppy"

If they want historical accuracy then maybe they should find out exactly what IS historically accurate.

Last edited May 31, 2010 at 12:02 AM by BDNeon

BDNeon wrote:
See, revisionist scum. The Rape of Berlin is a known fact in every country except russia because of the historical revisionism movement led by them.

Atina Grossmann is a German feminist. She don't have reasons to lie about the rape of German women.

QuoteI have a deep hatred of modern day Russia

:-\
I will try to explain something ...
For example, Katyn.
Poles see it as the murder on national reasons, but Russian see it as the murder on only political not national reasons. See the difference?

Good night.

Last edited May 31, 2010 at 12:07 AM by UeArtemis