[1.11]OP's

250 MP for:
1) An OP'd point
2) A forward re-enforce point
3) Garrisonable trench like structure

Its a bit too much.  I know that retreat is being introduced to the Russians soon and that may change the need for this kind of thing as well.

Proposal:
A) Make it not garrisonable
B) Make build time = to a trench.  Right now it builds insanely fast.

Again, introducing retreat may change this.

Last edited May 28, 2010 at 3:46 PM by Budwise

Well it does get destroyed very fast.

+1 with introduction of retreat to Soviets this needs to be reconsidered.

Btw Budwise, please state EF version number [1.11] in the subject of your topics, otherwise devs gonna delete it :)

EP13 wrote:
Well it does get destroyed very fast.

Early game you have only flamers that can damage it and even then it takes a while to burn it down.  For only 50MP more than a regular VP it just does a little too much imo.

agreed, make it so they take longer to build id say

I think they should keep it garrisonable though.

As soviets can't build forward HQ, i think that Russian Outpost does a good job and is an unique idea, just need the build time increased ;D.

I like how it is.

Budwise wrote:
250 MP for:
1) An OP'd point
2) A forward re-enforce point
3) Garrisonable trench like structure

For only 150MP you get bunker that with a defensive doctrine is a:
1) Garrisonable trench like structure immune to smallarms with 900HP
2) A forward re-enforce point
3) A medic station/MG emplacement/repair station for only 50ammo. All of them have more HP and better armor type than UK/US/USRR emplacements.

For only 240MP/20Fuel you get PE Halftrack witch is a:
1) Garrisonable vechicle
2) A forward re-enforce point
3) Mobile MG

Soviets cant retreat, nor they have any kind of halftrack. They need an Outpost.

Last edited May 28, 2010 at 6:41 PM by Paciat

Paciat wrote:

Budwise wrote:
250 MP for:
1) An OP'd point
2) A forward re-enforce point
3) Garrisonable trench like structure

For only 150MP you get bunker that with a defensive doctrine is a:
1) Garrisonable trench like structure immune to smallarms with 900HP
2) A forward re-enforce point
3) A medic station/MG emplacement/repair station for only 50ammo. All of them have more HP and better armor type than UK/US/USRR emplacements.

For only 240MP/20Fuel you get PE Halftrack witch is a:
1) Garrisonable vechicle
2) A forward re-enforce point
3) Mobile MG

Soviets cant retreat, nor they have any kind of halftrack. They need an Outpost.

Yes Wehr has a bunker that they can garrison and re-enforce from, however this is a Doctrine specific ability that you cant even get til 2CP.  You cant exactly rush a part of the map and plop down a bunker and start re-enforcing from it. 

The PE HT requires teching and fuel and takes considerable damage from small arms fire unlike the Soviet Outpost.  If you would like to suggest adding a 20 fuel cost to build the Outpost be my guest.

Neither of the above mentioned also act as OP's. 

I didnt say they dont need an Outpost I just said that for 250 MP you should not get what takes other factions considerable teching or doctrine choices to get to and do not come until midgame.

At this point I think the least that should be done is making build time = to a trench or mortar pit. 

Last edited May 28, 2010 at 7:18 PM by Budwise

Budwise wrote:

Yes Wehr has a bunker that they can garrison and re-enforce from, however this is a Doctrine specific ability that you cant even get til 2CP.  You cant exactly rush a part of the map and plop down a bunker and start re-enforcing from it. 

The PE HT requires teching and fuel and takes considerable damage from small arms fire unlike the Soviet Outpost.  If you would like to suggest adding a 20 fuel cost to build the Outpost be my guest.

Neither of the above mentioned also act as OP's. 

I didnt say they dont need an Outpost I just said that for 250 MP you should not get what takes other factions considerable teching or doctrine choices to get to and do not come until midgame.

At this point I think the least that should be done is making build time = to a trench or mortar pit. 

Excuse me but you are ignoring that soviets can't build forward hq, neither have halftracks so how would you reinforce a squad? Returning to base is a long way no matter how small the map is, and that could cost the game, besides they can't retreat, they need those outposts with their current features at least. Also is an original way to secure points, what every faction now can do. And it should not cost fuel.

Quote
At this point I think the least that should be done is making build time = to a trench or mortar pit.

Agreed. Originally we wanted the 'OP' to be an upgrade to the outpost but we couldn't code it. So the additional time will do.

I got litte idea for OP to work propertly as "holding point":

When build (a bit slower than trench, it's about 7 meters wide and supported by double wall of sandbags for god's sake) it can reinforce. ONLY. For 100MP 10F it can be upgraded with "Fortification" upgrade - after upgrade one squad (max 9 men) can garrison it, BUT - when garrisoned, it secures territory it have beed built in. Troops leave - point is again cap-able. (!!BUT!! - Conscripts cannot secure point by being inside OP) It can give player choise - be aggresive, send all forces on frontline OR use "turtle" tactic - allocate some squads to hold strategic points and secure them to gain more resources for heavier units to perform late-but-heavy-attack.

I like it the way it is.

thebomb wrote:
I like it the way it is.

+1

It does need a longer build time. and once retreat is introduced then a fuel cost of at least 20, maybe more.

Its is fine, no matter what you add to the game it will not make it overpowered!