Finland and winter war

Why you cant do Finland to game. And you can do more winter war maps. i live in finland and finland is forgotten country

Well. Like all the time; The Mod CANT IMPLEMENT EVERYTHING and so Devs had to find the best parts based on the historical possibilities.

The finish winter war is an interesting part of the history of the 2nd world war but when we are honest then the finish front is a seperated front and had not so much impact on the hole outcome of the eastern front.

So perhaps Fins would be interesting but out of my view no own faction for the eastern front mod.

When u dont think that i'm right u can present as a concept which shows the user a workable finish coh army.

Too much effort to create an entire faction for a relatively small war contibution. And the Winter War was a separate conflict, so no sooner will they implement it than the Spanish Civil War. It is a good idea for another mod team though.

I'm pretty sure they won't add Finnish troops, but its kind of disapointing they don't even add Polish units seeing the invasion of Poland started the war.

I see your point, Akalonor, but you must also take into account that Polish troops were EXTREMELY under-armed. They were the last known army to use Calvary Horseback units.

The horses failed miserably to the Reich's MG34s, MG42s, Gr. 81mms, And the tanks.

Akalonor wrote:
I'm pretty sure they won't add Finnish troops, but its kind of disapointing they don't even add Polish units seeing the invasion of Poland started the war.

The polish are semi represented in a way by the partisans, as the polish resistance did grow through the war culminating in the warsaw uprsing.

even tough poles were under-armed they managed to keep figthing for 36 days(france survived only 10 days more)and second half of that time they fighted two front war.

Well. This is the eastern front, right?
For me and for a lot of other people historical eastern front
started at the 22 june 1941 when the german Wehrmacht attacked the Soviet union.
For me the german invasion of poland and the finish winter war arent battles of the eastern front. The took place at the east but today they arent part of the historical consideration of the eastern front.

Lord wrote:
Well. This is the eastern front, right?
For me and for a lot of other people historical eastern front
started at the 22 june 1941 when the german Wehrmacht attacked the Soviet union.
For me the german invasion of poland and the finish winter war arent battles of the eastern front. The took place at the east but today they arent part of the historical consideration of the eastern front.

I agree although CoH is based in 44 however.

What about having a Finnish themed doctrine in the Ostheer when added, rather than an entirely unique faction?

Like i had already writen;
for me the finish front line isnt part of the topic "eastern front". It was a separated front line with its own combat situations and battles.

Lord wrote:
Like i had already writen;
for me the finish front line isnt part of the topic "eastern front". It was a separated front line with its own combat situations and battles.

thank you........

In wikipedia Finland is in axis side in eastern front battles and Continuation War ended in 1944.

Well. Part of the axis and war till 1944 is no reason to count them on the eastern front ;)

Like i had already written; it is a separated front with its own history and own situation.

And more point; when we will add the fins then we would get a flame war here at the board because then everyone wants his nation in this mod and that is absolutly impossible.
I had often said that when the Ostheer will get foreigne troops they should get "sbstract names" like nordic volunteers or balkan legionars or thinks like this.

Many people don't view Wikipedia as a viable source.
But I think a way to calm everyone and a dd gameplay diversity would add a Doctrine that was all about Allied Support for Germany, One side would be call-ins , the other bonuses & abilities. The call ins could be something like.

Southern tank Hunters
3 man squad, armed with 1 Grenatbusche 39,
And two MP40's

Balkan Soldiers
5 man squad armed with standard Kar 98's,

Scandinavian Sniper
Sniper armed with a Scoped Kar98
Something like this perhaps?

Lord wrote:
when the Ostheer will get foreigne troops they should get "sbstract names" like nordic volunteers or balkan legionars or thinks like this.

For me this is a little bit....(i don't want to insult you)...

Reason =>every country had their uniform and weapons.
There are so many units,and every one is unique in balkans like in any other part of the world.

So...what will happen there?
We will have x number of different units with the same name?

Anyway...every man will recognize soldiers from their country looking at their uniform or weapons.For tanks or armored vehicle is even more easy...

Last edited May 24, 2010 at 6:18 PM by PSIHOPAT

Well. With the uniforms; a lot of "axis" get german supplies and with this supplies german uniforms. Think the biggest
"exception" of this point are the Romanians.
Well. All in all the team will find a way to deal with this problem. Perhaps we will see no volunteers or just some "special volunteers" or a army out of volunteers ;)

Ostheer is marching forward  ;D

Yea...

But don't forget that => the start of the HELL march(against USSR) was side by side with the romanians and no one else.

Well...why should i interested into the Hellmarch of CnC?
CoH is not CnC and EF team is not stupid.
( or in other word; we will find a way to deal with the most points and problems of the topic eastern front! )

But all in all i wont start a flamewar of foreigne troops at the Ostheer again.
The topic of this thread is the finish army and i had present u my point of view.

If the Finns get any unit, it should just be a sniper or something.

QuoteI agree although CoH is based in 44 however.

Not necessarily. Just because most of the equipment is based on armed forces in 1944, that DOES NOT mean that automatically every single game played in COH represents 1944 battles.

While much of the war is based off of 1944, there is equipment from 1945 AND 43', AND there are maps, especially in EF, that date back to 41'. Making generalized statements about dates within the game will most likely be incorrect because the game wasn't CENTERED around a specific time line. The Campaigns were, however. They were centered around a true time line.

But battles outside of campaigns are NOT dated.

But Lord Rommel can you do otsheer side some commander tree where you can invite finnish hungrian and some other countrys soldiers to fight axis side. PLEASE

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Add finnish ski maxim troops and some anti infranty squad with "Suomi konepiistooli" = finland submachine gun. Or finnish sniper please lord rommel i pray it =D.

Last edited May 25, 2010 at 10:54 AM by EtzkuFIN

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Begging at one mod may gain favoritism but it won't affect the Ostheer. You just need to wait for it to come out. If I had it the way you want it right now there would be large proportions of foreign units, but that's NOT how it'll turn out, I presume?

I think they at least deserve a place somewhere in the game but not a whole faction

EtzkuFIN wrote:
But Lord Rommel can you do otsheer side some commander tree where you can invite finnish hungrian and some other countrys soldiers to fight axis side. PLEASE

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Post Merge: [time]1274784893[/time]

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Add finnish ski maxim troops and some anti infranty squad with "Suomi konepiistooli" = finland submachine gun. Or finnish sniper please lord rommel i pray it =D.

Well. First i'm honored that u think that i'm the man for the Ostheer. That isnt right. Okay. I'm the "german historian" of the team but in this function i help the team to create an unique Ostheer. All in all i can say that the Ostheer concept is a product of the team and so you can be surprised what for an Ostheer we will create.

antman311 wrote:
The only time Finland had lines joined with German ones was with the Siege of Leningrad. Other than that, they were a completely different front. :\

lol true and to top onto that they never really fought hand in hand

Lord wrote:
And more point; when we will add the fins then we would get a flame war here at the board because then everyone wants his nation in this mod and that is absolutly impossible.
I had often said that when the Ostheer will get foreigne troops they should get "sbstract names" like nordic volunteers or balkan legionars or thinks like this.

This is what I've been saying for a while now that so called 'foreign troops' shouldn't be included because a) it will start a flame war and b) there were very few 'foreign troops' in 1944 in comparison to the rest of the german forces it was only a small minority. If you want 'foreign troops' go make your own mod, stop whining about it here I'm sick of it.

Cranialwizard wrote:

QuoteI agree although CoH is based in 44 however.

Not necessarily. Just because most of the equipment is based on armed forces in 1944, that DOES NOT mean that automatically every single game played in COH represents 1944 battles.

While much of the war is based off of 1944, there is equipment from 1945 AND 43', AND there are maps, especially in EF, that date back to 41'. Making generalized statements about dates within the game will most likely be incorrect because the game wasn't CENTERED around a specific time line. The Campaigns were, however. They were centered around a true time line.

But battles outside of campaigns are NOT dated.

yes while there is some equipment can be found from different years the entire armies/factions however are based of a 1944 army. for example there were no pershings or King tigers in 1943 or earlier. because these late war weapons are in CoH it makes CoH based in 1944. You can keep telling yourself that it can represent 1943 or earlier but its not. The design of each faction was based of what the american army/british army/german whermacht were comprised of and capable of in mid 1944. Although the soviet faction in EF does display some units and equipment obsolete by 1944 it does have units that only started appearing in 1944 so it also can be said to be based in 1944. In regards to some of the EF maps although they did happen before or after 1944 they are simply there for fun not for realism or historical reinactment. Also in additon to complement this type of design for the other factions the Ostheer (which should eventually come around) should be based from a 1944 force but I feel it should be something different from the whermacht and PE (of whom can also represent german forces on the Easter Front in 1944). So yes you can have some units/eqiupment in the Ostheer that was used earlier in the war that is justifyable and was present in 1944. for example a Panzer III which although was outdated and no longer in production by 1944 was still used for some specialized roles but there were few remaing. A panzer III could be justifyable in the Ostheer as maybe a early medium-light tank with good anti light vehicle capabilities to support the infantry in the ealry mid game stages to deal with enemy light armour (eg stuarts, M8's, T70's, T90's). On the other hand something like a paner II or a Panzer 38t would be hard to justify putting in the ostheer as it was not at all present in 1944 as it was completely obsolete and out of production well before 1944. Overall when designing a faction for CoH one has to keep in mind what the army would of been like in the time period you are trying to portray, in this case 1944.

I believe that COH is just a representation of WWII in general.We all know that you believe that Foreign units are a useless waste of time and that youo think that anything before 44 shouldn't be included but remember that the Pershing was only used a few times, this game isn't about whats true its about whats fun, I for one think that the representation of other countries war efforts is a much deserved solute to the participants of WWII.
We can argue all day and night, but it all comes down to what the developers see as fit.

I said in my post that stuff made before 1944 can be included considering that it would be justifyable. for example the short barrelled Panzer IV which is in the PE was out of production by 1944 but it was still in some armoured units.

I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate I hate how you all say "I rather have realism over fun." I just makes me mad!

COH TURNS REALISM INTO FUN!

IF ITS NOT TO REAL- IT ISNT FUN! I DONT WANNA HERE IT EVER AGIAN! NEXT TIME I HERE IT, AM GUNNA DO MORE THAN A ANNOYING POST!

Seeme if your post is directed at me then I agree a game should be more fun than realistic. Thats why I hate Gran Turismo for example. All I'm saying is to keep with the way relic has set it (in this case the setting of 1944) and make it fun but not making it get too unrealistic. Being fun is the main point but having some realism makes the game fun too.

... 

    You only get half of what am saying. There is no such thing as "more fun then realism" Because.. well.. I will explain.



Pretend this is the real story.------> **

Theres not much fun in it, right? I mean, its interesting but not fun.

Now, this is the fun ------> @@

You cant just do this ----> "lets put in fun, but some realism" a.k.a *@@.

No, what is the fun??? The fun is you acting out the realism!

How fun would it for you to make D-Day into a think under your commande? It happen and it sould be just like d-day so it would make it seem fun as if you actually in D-Day? YOu are D-Day! Now, lets change it alitte and pretend that the germans sent a couple king tigers the beach to help. "Dont worry, at least it makes it more fun." But tell me, would you play that?


NO MORE!

I understood what you said in your first post but your second post is making little sense. Of course a game should be fun that's why people play it but if its a game based of something in real life so in this case its a WWII RTS game. This game CoH is a very fun game because it has been done so well due to its good gameplay, impressive sound, graphics and physics engine that make the game look realistic. Although the game isn't 100% realistic eg the way units retreat, the range of weapons and 57mm guns being able to penetrate tigers front armour its done for the fun and balance. Although it is realistic in the way the game is presented how things like suppression works, the manpower/ammo/fuel resources and how vehicles can suffer weapon/engine damage at times.

CoH by relic is based in 1944 due to the campaign but the all of the factions are designed to suit this. Although the EF probably wasn't (although I don't know for sure) designed with a 1944 setting specifically It still suits this setting fine.

Now when I speak of realism in terms of how I in my opinion find it in this case is just to keep factions as close to the setting of the game and its premise. However I am not one who would want to change the gameplay for realism which would compromise the fun of it as that would make it lame.

At this point I only have one differing view on keeping factions close to the setting is that regarding the retreat of  ability of the soviets.

I hope this clarifies my opinions.

I hope to clerify that the Game is Set in WWII , not 44, not 43 , its just based in WWII, the war was 6 years in Europe, this mod is simply the Eastern front, well guess who fought on the Eastern front, Germany, Finland, Russia, Romania, Hungary, Croatia, Slovakia, Poland, And you say that its unrealistic to represent any of these Belligerents? 

I agree with Seeme, this 'game' in Reality is a nightmare, a bloody mess and a mistake, yet it was turned it into something fun for the sake of fun, if this was 100% realistic it wouldn't be very fun, war is anything but fun,but  this game ignores the aspect of uttermost accuracy for the trade in of whats playable and enjoyable.

I back Akalonor's points with this Versedhorison:

COH is NOT based on 44'. Please remove this thought.
COH is NOT based on 43'. DO NOT think that.
COH is NOT based on 45'. DO NOT think that.

CoH is based on WWII. That's it. Not a specific year. WWII.

The CAMPAIGNS are based on specific dates, times, and years. But just because the campaigns are on a time line doesn't mean EVERYTHING ELSE is.

It's because the CAMPAIGNS have historic value, they are based on real time lines.

Yes, a lot of the classic maps are Normandy, does that mean that they HAD to be fought in 44'?

They could have been fought @ when the French were ATTEMPTING to defend their country. (Note:When Relic published the first CoH, Americans were named Allies, preempting that all allies grouped together to make the faction)

seriously. also, think about other games like Battlefield 1942.  it said 1942 but it had battles from every year of the war. CoH can do it too.

It is nice that u fought about the year of CoH.
When i'm informed right this thread was a "petition"
for the finish army and so for "an other theater"...

For those of you that don't get it let me act it out ....
*Rommel walks in *
*Rommel walks up to people having a conversation*
*SLAP*
"You are all very off topic for a pointless reason!!"
*Rommel Walks out*
Ta-da!

Back to Topic: I think we've all agreed that Finland will not likely be represented in the Ostheer.

Cranialwizard wrote:
I back Akalonor's points with this Versedhorison:

COH is NOT based on 44'. Please remove this thought.
COH is NOT based on 43'. DO NOT think that.
COH is NOT based on 45'. DO NOT think that.

CoH is based on WWII. That's it. Not a specific year. WWII.

The CAMPAIGNS are based on specific dates, times, and years. But just because the campaigns are on a time line doesn't mean EVERYTHING ELSE is.

It's because the CAMPAIGNS have historic value, they are based on real time lines.

Yes, a lot of the classic maps are Normandy, does that mean that they HAD to be fought in 44'?

They could have been fought @ when the French were ATTEMPTING to defend their country. (Note:When Relic published the first CoH, Americans were named Allies, preempting that all allies grouped together to make the faction)

If CoH is based in WWII then the fact that some factions use late war weapons like king tigers, pershings, jagdpanthers would suggest that the game is generally based in 1944 or 1945. Although broadly you can say it is based in WWII since it is a WWII game.

Lord wrote:
It is nice that u fought about the year of CoH.
When i'm informed right this thread was a "petition"
for the finish army and so for "an other theater"...

I know isn't thread derailment fun XD

Okay well we ended it and you are now trying to start it, I'm done trying to get through to you :P